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> nethack & slash'em

> Still the most complex game on the planet.

Dwarf Fortress.




Definitely agreed, but is there anything more complex than DF?

As a sidenote, to anyone who doesn't know the story of how Dwarf Fortress is being made, you should check it out. It's one guy, working full time on it, and managing to support himself and his brother through monthly donations. It's released completely free of charge, so this is just solely from people donating. That alone would be a pretty cool story, but when you look at the immense, mindboggling, ridiculously ambitious scale of the the planned finished game, it's incredible. He's basically trying to build a completely "generic fantasy world simulator", with procedurally generated world, history, etc. The amount of detail he goes into in this is amazing, and he has so much more planned. If you ever need to be inspired that one person can make a living doing what they love, or that you can actually implement features that are ambitious beyond most AAA developers' wildest dreams, look to Toady One.

As a bonus, it's a pretty fun game!


Also, check out Boatmurdered[1], a "Let's Play" of Dwarf Fortress. It is pee-your-pants funny and contains some strong language.

The sequel, Headshoots[2], is also funny but not quite the same calibre as Boatmurdered. FYI, the name of your fortress is randomly generated.

[1] http://lparchive.org/Dwarf-Fortress-Boatmurdered/Introductio...

[2] http://lparchive.org/Dwarf-Fortress-Headshoots/


Boatmurdered is what got me to play DF in the first place.


Same here. :)


DF does have very impressive depth and game mechanics. Unfortunately, its interface is one of the worst of any game I've ever played.

It's a pity that DF isn't open source either, as then its interface problems would have long since been fixed. But, as it is, its lead (and only) developer doesn't seem to care enough to fix it himself.


DF is the deepest game (really, toy, like SimCity; there's only one end state within the game and that's getting wiped out, and most of the rest of the game is very open ended) I have ever played which pairs it with a terrible interface and a learning curve like a brick wall (no joke, I only figured out how to get doctors to take medical jobs promptly a few weeks ago after playing the game for months). The DF interface problems aren't just that it's console oriented; there's no straightforward way absent external tools (which I generally can't have, because I play on a Mac) to get a list of e.g. which dwarves have a certain labor enabled, or which dwarves have skill levels in a certain labor. Also the way the game is played today is very stuff intensive which means you tend to have between a quarter and up to half of your fort on full time crap hauling duties.


I heard that it is actually written using GL to draw the character glyphs. Hilarious.


From data/init/init.txt

> By and large, 2D should be the most reliable, while STANDARD has a good combination of speed and reliability. However, all 2D modes are normally fa r slower than even STANDARD, which may be the slowest OpenGL mode.

It is indeed. However:

> Linux/OS X users may also use PRINT_MODE:TEXT for primitive ncurses output.


I think he's said it's on his to-do list, but he wants to add more 'cool' stuff first. Also you can get tools like dwarf therapist which take some of the pain out of managing the UI.


Just an example of the "amount of detail": the game tracks things like beard length, nausea level, ratio of indoor time to outdoor time, noise level, and it simulates the entire history of the planet before you start.

It's just too bad he can't come up with a UI that would appeal to any but the most dedicated players.


Not just in game, but out of game detail, too.

There's a player trying to get a sample of saguaro wood so they can measure some of its material properties empirically and add those to the game. And that's just one small part of some very large, recent threads researching real-world stuff to improve the game's model.

Someone actually went through about a couple of hundred random types of stone and wood to find out more information on them and input proper data for them, rather than using the defaults for wood and stone.

That thread is somewhere on the Suggestions forum.


Definitely agreed, but is there anything more complex than DF?

Until someone writes out rules for Azad, I think Dwarf Fortress will remain king of the complexity hill.


Has there been any attempts to do that?


Dwarf Fortress was already suggested by somebody, and I very much like it, too (haven't had the time to look deeply enough, though), but it's not a terminal game. Yes it uses characters; but one actually needs OpenGL for the game.

Still, a very nice one, that is!


Not actually true; you can play it in terminal/ncurses mode.


Now checking Dwarf Fortress, but must mention Deadly Rooms of Death.




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