I'm a huge fan of sports cars and cars that just plainly handle better on flat roads, but having a sports car that I truly enjoy driving versus my other car (a decent, recent SUV), the advantages with SUVs pretty quickly become apparent.
- Smoother ride over worse roads, especially under-maintained roads
- An extension of that point: more travel options. Dirt road? Sure, and the SUV probably won't get as dirty. Gravel? I can probably take it without worrying. Need to clear a curb? Doable.
- Better visibility, and that's even after factoring in everyone buying an SUV
- Marginal efficiency hit (like 10-15%), which most people ignore with electric SUVs anyway, but even with gas or diesel it's just not enough to stop people from buying anymore compared to when SUVs truly guzzled gas. As an example, I had a BMW from a number of years ago that my SUV today outpaces in average gas mileage despite unchanged driving habits and better engine output as well as increased weight for the SUV. People are essentially offsetting engine efficiency gains by buying more car.
- More car to absorb impact in the event of a crash.
I can see why people buy them even before egos start to get involved around just how big the cars can be.
A lot of accidents involve wildlife. Deer where I live, moose in the European North. Big roadkill is pretty common if you live in the countryside, much more common than killing another person.
You are definitely safer hitting the fearless ton of meat that is moose with a SUV.
> You are definitely safer hitting the fearless ton of meat that is moose with a SUV.
Any data on this? Bigger==safer doesn't always hold with these things. Lots of other car design features play a role there, e.g. a smaller car with a strong roof will likely beat a SUV with a weak roof structure.
(and while lots has happened with safety technology, the classic counter point is that if you have a chance to avoid the crash you're way more likely to roll an SUV while attempting to do so)
You sit higher up, so if you hit a large animal, like a moose, you don't risk it coming through the windshield. Having anywhere from 300-700kg coming through your windshield is going to hurt you. But that assumes you hit it.
But like you said, you also run the risk of flipping the car. It would be interesting to see some actual data on this. It's the sort of thing that has been repeated so much that it's easy to make bad assumptions.
Anecdotally, I've almost hit a moose two times. Both times I just completely froze up and slammed the breaks. They jumped out of nowhere, the only reason I didn't hit any of them was just pure luck and timing, and had nothing to do with my ability to react or steer away.
> a smaller car with a strong roof will likely beat a SUV with a weak roof structure.
The latter circumstance feels extremely unlikely considering SUVs are generally engineered to support the higher likelihood of more weight ending up on the roof of the car in the event of a roll-over. I'd be surprised if SUVs had weaker structural reinforcement than equivalent-classed sedans.
But I could be very, very wrong here and wouldn't be surprised if I am.
Good point. on the other hand I don't know how a front impact on the roof line compares to the loads in a roll (but I guess a roll at speed also has a strong horizontal force on the roof). What I remember from studies I saw in the past is that features like sunroofs make some difference. But the "we as lay people don't necessarily know", and intuition going wrong on other scenarios, was why I asked if there is a good source on that.
Where I live, not a ton of moose, though generally if the area is known for roadkill of large animals, you should try driving slower and maybe checking your headlights to make sure they are adjusted. Safer driving beats driving a huge car for the purpose of not having to safely drive.
I'm a very safe driver. When I go through the woods at night, I drive 40 or even 30kph. I've been part of a wild boar crash (southern german wild boars can get hefty), so I want to avoid future incidents.
It's not unrealistic to expect locals to drive safely. Either drive safely or hand in your drivers license, what's even the point of having one then?
> - More car to kill people with in the event of an accident
> Always keep in mind that accidents may involve a person on the other side.
This is self-negated with moves by the broader population towards SUVs. The end result is that SUV on SUV crashes will simply include more mass (structured to crumple more effectively as well) protecting occupants in all cars involved.
Your car buying decision should be strictly around your own safety. Your driving habits must factor in both your safety as well as the safety of others; if someone else drives inappropriately and causes a crash and their wellbeing is impaired or concluded as a result of both their driving habits as well as their use of a less safe car, the fault shouldn't be on you for having a car that's safer for you to drive. Perhaps that's what you meant to convey when you edited my quote.
The other person might not strictly be in a car, they might be a cyclist or a person simply walking around, so I don't think your counter argument applies.
I would also argue that centering your car buying decisions around your own safety is selfish and or egotistical; other people are just as valid as you and you should consider their safety just as much as your own, especially the traffic participants that are less able to defend themselves against bigger vehicles like pedestrians or cyclists.
> The other person might not strictly be in a car, they might be a cyclist or a person simply walking around, so I don't think your counter argument applies.
> I would also argue that centering your car buying decisions around your own safety is selfish and or egotistical; other people are just as valid as you and you should consider their safety just as much as your own, especially the traffic participants that are less able to defend themselves against bigger vehicles like pedestrians or cyclists.
If you're willing to buy a car based on the safety of others over your own, that's your right. But if we're being honest, everything you just mentioned is exactly why your active participation in defensive driving techniques is essential. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_driving
Since crashes always have fault, defensive driving and proper maintenance of your car are paramount safety requirements both for myself and to pay respect to other people. However, beyond that, I'm buying my car based on an assumption that other people will not pay me that respect (e.g. by texting and driving), which is also precisely the point of defensive driving in the first place.
It seems like you're here mostly to force a debate. I made my point; I hope you're at peace with it.
I'm not here to force a debate, I'm merely pointing out the obvious. It is my right to buy a car in consideration with others, but honestly, it should be a duty.
> Your car buying decision should be strictly around your own safety.
That is a horrible, selfish attitude.
A car driver is absolutely responsible for their choice of vehicle, their choice to drive any particular journey, their choice to exceed the speed limit, text, phone, chat, and everything else.
I would ban the sale of any car/SUV not in the current top 75% by pedestrian safety. Set that as a baseline, and increase the minimum standard every 5 years.
> A car driver is absolutely responsible for their choice of vehicle, their choice to drive any particular journey, their choice to exceed the speed limit, text, phone, chat, and everything else.
Just their choices not to drive defensively (the portion I italicized in your statement). The car you choose may be based on specific requirements for life. And the journey you take may be all the same. Would you fault someone for not being able to afford a newer car? I picked a car that exceeds the latest pedestrian safety regulations; would you still grief me just because it's an SUV?
100% of the fault comes from how a person chooses to drive and keep their car safe (lighting, brakes, capabilities that allow them to drive defensively). I wouldn't rob someone of their choice of car because I don't know what circumstance necessitated it; it would be selfish of me to tell someone they can't drive a pickup when all of their work revolves around it.
>I would ban the sale of any car/SUV not in the current top 75% by pedestrian safety. Set that as a baseline, and increase the minimum standard every 5 years.
That's called stack ranking and everyone knows it's a crap system with perverse incentives.
That's a bit false feeling you are buying - 2.4 tonne SUV vs 2.1-tonne big wagon if we compare within the same brand and similar sizes (BMW X7 vs 5 series). That's insignificant difference in head-on crash. Crumple zones are +-same so again not a win. If your argument is tiny car vs the biggest then its not about SUV anymore.
SUV has much higher rolling danger in case of crash so better stretch your necks before driving...
> That's a bit false feeling you are buying - 2.4 tonne SUV vs 2.1-tonne big wagon if we compare within the same brand and similar sizes (BMW X7 vs 5 series). That's insignificant difference in head-on crash. Crumple zones are +-same so again not a win. If your argument is tiny car vs the biggest then its not about SUV anymore.
It's weird that I'm here defending SUVs when my favorite car to drive is a low-riding, low-mass dart of a sports car that's far more likely to kill me than the party on the other side, but here I am.
- Smoother ride over worse roads, especially under-maintained roads
- An extension of that point: more travel options. Dirt road? Sure, and the SUV probably won't get as dirty. Gravel? I can probably take it without worrying. Need to clear a curb? Doable.
- Better visibility, and that's even after factoring in everyone buying an SUV
- Marginal efficiency hit (like 10-15%), which most people ignore with electric SUVs anyway, but even with gas or diesel it's just not enough to stop people from buying anymore compared to when SUVs truly guzzled gas. As an example, I had a BMW from a number of years ago that my SUV today outpaces in average gas mileage despite unchanged driving habits and better engine output as well as increased weight for the SUV. People are essentially offsetting engine efficiency gains by buying more car.
- More car to absorb impact in the event of a crash.
I can see why people buy them even before egos start to get involved around just how big the cars can be.