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Show HN: HerJobs-Diversify remote teams with female talent from emerging country (herjobs.co)
56 points by soorajchandran 3 days ago | hide | past | favorite | 28 comments





Writing on behalf of one of the maker: The reason why I started this:

I'm a female. I'm from India, currently living in Europe. I'm an Engineering Manager in a remote team. I started this because in most of the teams I have worked, there was a lack of female in tech. And wanted to contribute towards changing this.

In an ideal world, opportunity will be equal - but unfortunately that is not the case right now. Not everyone have access to the equal opportunity.

And we are technically not a company yet, we are just a small community. What we try to do is coach people who apply, identify their skill gaps and help them get a job in remote teams. These skills mostly are not technical skills - but cultural and communication gaps.

I hope that helps.


Defiantly talk to a qualified HR attorney before using this in an American company - at first blush it would run afoul of my own states anti-discrimination laws.

Good to see slightly niche but important and interesting problems being tackled.

One of the makers here. Thank you :)

Well done. Its important to have places which showcase people who aren't well served by the mainstream job sites.

I like the idea, though it does feel a little like two forms, without the ability to see much else.

Sadly, not quite at the point of hiring full time employees yet (short term contractors mostly at the moment), but will keep it in mind to be part of the mix when I am.


You can see the list of vetted candidates from the footer! We are not building this as a hiring platform or product, but basically to help some people.

[flagged]


"Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say."

"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Turning (or trying to turn) a Show HN into a flamewar is obviously against the Show HN rules also:

https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html


You're stretching your interpretation of the rules. This isn't flamebait, it is a valid concern. In the United States using this site is going to be a legal quagmire, which the comment is pointing out. That's valid criticism and 'something genuinely new to say'. Please argue in good faith and don't dismiss the opinions and critiques of others just because you feel differently than they do. That's how platforms become an echo chamber.

The comment didn't point that out. It made an entirely generic statement, some variation of which appears in every remotely similar thread and leads to the same tedious, angry, shallow flamewar over and over again. That's what we're trying to avoid here.

Other commenters in this thread have posted things that are closer to what you describe. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25160667, for example, is a completely different kind of comment.


Thanks for the concern. > In the United States using this site is going to be a legal quagmire.. Genuinely curious to learn more about this. Can you please explain?

Just to clarify - By using us all companies will be doing is post ads to reach a different kind of audience they otherwise won't.


I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of my comment. I tried to be as deliberate with my choice of words as I could be.

Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say.

The entire premise of the site is to have a list of candidates based solely on gender and national origin. Discrimination is core to the product, so I asked a core, targeted question about it.

Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work.

I never dismissed it, merely sought to further understand.

Turning (or trying to turn) a Show HN into a flamewar is obviously against the Show HN rules also

I never introduced the topic or product, merely tried to understand its justification. The show hn rules also state "When something isn't good, you needn't pretend that it is, but don't be gratuitously negative."


If you were seeking to further understand, you shouldn't have used pejorative language (which "discriminating based on sex and national origin" — nobody uses such phrases except as part of a condemnation) and cross-examination questioning ("Why is this acceptable?"). You also should have included something specific about this particular post, instead of tossing off something cheap and generic.

This is not a hard call. The comment was obvious flamebait. Every remotely similar thread gets these generic, indignant objections, and they lead to the same flamewar over and over again. That's not what HN is for.

> I never dismissed it, merely sought to further understand.

That does not seem to me a plausible interpretation of your comment. If it really was your intent, you needed to make that much clearer. When it comes to inflammatory topics on the internet, the burden is on the commenter to disambiguate intent: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=disambiguate%20burden%20by:dan.... If a comment looks like a drive-by one-liner and quacks like a drive-by one-liner, then it's trolling, whether you meant it to or not. We have to judge these things by their effects: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=troll%20effects%20by:dang&date....


I see your point. Thank you, I'll try to avoid being unproductively negative like this again.

> discriminating based on sex and national origin

Disagree fully that this is automatically pejorative. If it's false (the first test of whether something can be considered pejorative) then explain why.

If you can't, then the accusation falls at the first hurdle. If you can, then why bother with all the BUT THE RULES! nonsense when you could just say why the statement is false?


I'm the one who made the comment, and it was pejorative. By that, I mean it purposefully had a somewhat negative connotation to it. It's the language used in anti-discrimination laws.

It's acceptable to use tools to increase diversity of candidates for open positions, because those candidates must still satisfy the position's threshold requirements and compete on whatever criteria the hiring company has set forth internally for the position.

It would not be acceptable to base the ultimate hiring decisions on sex or national origin.


You are right. As far as we understand nobody is going to risk the quality of the hire they make. This is merely a way to reach a different kind of audience(talent in this case) that is otherwise hard for a typical US/Europe based remote team to reach.

It is not. No companies on HerJobs are hiring based on gender or country. Herjobs is just a means for companies to diversify their pipelines. Basically this helps in getting more diverse applicants.

If a company were to look for candidates on a site that only accepted rich white men, there would rightfully be outrage. Narrowing the hiring pool to a certain group based on race and sex _is_ discriminatory, and your website is facilitating such blatant discrimination.

Edit: to expand on this, to discriminate is to discern a difference in something. You are explicitly discriminating based on gender and national origin. This part is inarguable. Whether it's right or not is another question.


Let me try to put it this way. If you let things run its own course with no external forces, this would lead to a team with people from similar backgrounds and from similar geographies. Because not all people has the same starting point, not all people have access to the education and privilege.

But remote work can be most useful for people from emerging economies. It can bring them better salary, better living conditions and this has huge implications in long term. We are trying to do our part in accelerating that.


> No companies on HerJobs are hiring based on gender or country.

If that's true, then why would these companies be on HerJobs (a platform which - as far as I can tell - seems to be designed specifically to facilitate hiring based on gender or country)?

I definitely agree that we need more diversified pipelines, but I don't agree that creating a restricted pipeline is the way to go about it; this seems more likely to be used as a means to get token women of color on teams for diversity points than anything. It seems more patronizing than anything - like women from emerging countries are somehow fundamentally unable to stand out in existing pipelines and thus need their own pipeline. A less patronizing solution would be to figure out why women from emerging countries are underrepresented in existing pipelines and address those factors there.

As it stands, I'm getting a strong "binders full of women" vibe from this, especially since I know full well that your average company will use it exactly in that way: to check off diversity boxes and make it look like they're "woke" as a substitute for actually-meaningful workplace gender/ethnic reform.

I wish y'all the best of luck, because this is definitely a problem worth solving; I just don't feel like this is the right way to go about it, or at the very least that it needs some refinement and adjustment to avoid doing more harm than good.


> like women from emerging countries are somehow fundamentally unable to stand out in existing pipelines

The fact is that there aren't many women from emerging economies in the pipeline of a typical remote company. This is what we are trying to change. These companies use social media, linkedin ads, other famous job boards to attract talent. But still the outcome is not much different.

By listing on HerJobs, companies can also reach a different demographic that is hard to reach(typically for a company in US or Europe)

Agree that there might be people who use this with not the ideal intentions. But we have to start somewhere. We also try our best to vet companies, not just candidates.

> A less patronizing solution would be to figure out why women from emerging countries are underrepresented in existing pipelines and address those factors there. This is exactly we are doing. Currently the community consists of mentors(both male, and female) and helps applicants identify their talent gaps and train them. These gaps are not necessarily technical - but cultural and language gaps.


Redressing discrimination is not discrimination.

[flagged]


What value are you adding here? And where is the malice coming from. Someone creates something cool to help with diversity hiring and all of a sudden you're putting words in their mouths.

Worse still you're trolling from a fresh account, so you're not even brave enough to use your own account.


Pointing out the obvious by being snarky is not trolling. Imagine the outrage from people like you if there was a site to hire men only from certain countries or Asian men only from South East. You would lose your minds and tweet endlessly.

Not everyone wants to raise VC money. Not everyone wants a moat. And we even don't have a job board.

Aaand, we didn't ask you to use our product. In fact we didn't ask anyone. Some kind companies signed up on their own. :)



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