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[flagged] Why it is more dangerous to be a farmer than a policeman in South Africa [pdf] (africacheck.org)
43 points by rbecker 32 days ago | hide | past | favorite | 26 comments



It's more dangerous to be a farmer than a policeman in the United States as well. 20.4 vs 13.7 fatal injuries per 100,000 per year. Being a policeman is just not very dangerous compared to most non-office jobs.


You don’t think that fatality rate is low because police are trained in how to to decrease their risk in the dangerous situations they get into every day?

How often do farmers go on house calls to calm down a belligerent drunk estranged husband with a gun? Not too often I would imagine. But domestics make up a large proportion of police calls.


Is there anyone who's not trained to decrease their risk in the dangerous situations they get into every day?


You are comparing injury rates, while the report only compares murder rates.


In addition, midwest US farmer suicides are at 17.3 per 100,000. So there's that. Thanks, administration.


This article, dated 6th November 2013 was clearly posted here to have a particular discussion, and to push a particular political agenda. It was posted by somebody who posts only right, conservative, and white-supremacist talking points to HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=rbecker).


I'm legitimately confused, how is this article a right, conservative, and/or white-supremacist talking point?


If anything it seems to debunk a right-wing talking point. Very strange accusation.


Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. Track record of a poster should be considered when evaluating the framing of a post.


You were not exaggerating.


Thank you for pointing that out. Indeed, after an hour, this divisive, agenda-pushing article has rightly been flagged. As was my submission on the genocide of Greeks by the Ottoman empire [1,2] (but not enough to get the [flagged] marker).

When it comes to articles about atrocities, HN only allows those that are posted in a spirit of reconciliation and healing, such as this recent article about the 1921 Tulsa massacre, where no-one questioned the motives behind posting it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24876120

If you find any inaccuracies in this, or any other, right-wing talking-point submission, I encourage you to point them out. I tried to stick to reliable sources, but we all make mistakes.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24600458

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24601836


There has been quite some tension recently, because SA farmers just had enough after a 21-year old man in Senekal was stabbed to death and then tied to a pole with a rope around his neck. Also, some think that the police is connected to some of the attacks.

Here are some farmers showing their frustration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8ZTK5qR4Ho


I did a quick fact check, as I was under the impression more of these murders were due to racial tensions. AfricaCheck, the website that posted this piece is regarded as very factual and is used by google as a fact check source in their Fact Check Tool: https://toolbox.google.com/factcheck/explorer


Well, that's a staggering amount of misleading, unproven or incorrect claims for a site that claims to be a fact checker.

> Africa Check is a non-profit fact checking organisation set up in 2012 to promote accuracy in public debate and the media in Africa. The organisation's goal is to raise the quality of information available to society across the continent.


You mean the racial tensions related to 10% of white settlers owning 90% of the real estate?

Being a thief is a hazard to one's health, yes.


We could just drive them out and replicate Zimbabwe I guess.

Also are the complainers Bantu settlers or Khoi-San natives?


Well damn, I was expecting accidents with machinery, not murders! Farm work is dangerous enough as it is.


It looks like gun ownership is legal in South Africa... surprised that the victims aren't fighting back more often.


Maybe they are? In practice, the odds are on the thugs side. I mean they can walk around how they want and pull the gun at an opportune moment while the farmers have to assume people they meet are not going to kill them.


The first person who pulls the trigger has a big advantage. Guns are quick and fairly incapacitating, so a determined attacker has a big advantage. This isn't MAD.

Even the Hollywood-style "a good guy stopped a shooter" scenarios often only stop further, not initial, shootings.


They know where you live, but you don't know where they live.


Most murders are among people who know each other.


In Britain, the farming community and the gypsy community know each other. About 20 years ago, there was a high-profile shooting in Britain, this article from the Guardian gives an overview: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/apr/19/audreygillan

It's a bit too bleeding-heart for my taste, even the Guardian admits to policing difficulties, there's little surprise that someone might take the law in their own hands if the government is absent. You'd guess similar dynamics are at play in South Africa.


These are high profile things. Most low profile murders in most places are among family and friends and coworkers and such. Or people who are doing crimes together.

The Britain and US would be places where it is exactly like that.

As in, south african farmers situation is unusual here.


Perpetrators are shooting and having legal guns too.

People who kill people are not some kind of different species going in from outer placas. They are exact same group with exact same rights.


> Perpetrators [... have] legal guns too.

Is that known in this case? It's often not the case in America.




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