I managed to watch some TV shows on it the other day! It's really cool stuff having a phone that's actually a proper little computer. The power management is terrible, the front camera doesn't have drivers, it's near impossible to do things that seem trivial (play an audiobook at 2x speed) without resorting to the command line. It often ends up in states that need a reboot. It's extremely rough around the edges but I can use it to post on HN while walking around Mountain View, so it's a huge step toward something real exciting.
:) Seriously, I love the thing.
I'm starting to get into this stuff, and your comment has me so excited!!
Only firmware blobs, right? I don't think you need any proprietary blobs running on the main CPU.
The IKEA effect.
>"The IKEA effect is a cognitive bias in which consumers place a disproportionately high value on products they partially created"
>without resorting to the command line
I want a command line only DE for PinePhone.
• On screen keyboard (Although hardware keyboard case is coming soon to PP).
• A section for realtime interrupts like calls, messages and notifications.
• Rest of the screen for native shell to do everything else, browsing? Lynx.
Advantage of this kind of DE is that it can allow us to create phones out of low power hardware like RPi zero as well.
Are you using Phosh? On Mobian, I found Phosh often freezing, especially when I'm downloading big files on my laptop (one of my main uses for my phone is as 4g hotspot).
When it happens, I found that I don't need a full reboot, I just have to ssh to the phone and run `sudo service phosh restart` - which is cool, because I don't have to reconfigure the hotspot or even just lose connection, that way.
IMO: most of the weirdness comes from trying to replace CLI/X11 stuff with phosh. If you install a normal WM/DE like fluxbox or mate everything works like it would on a laptop.
Not that I use the phone itself that much, I mostly use text-based messaging, but I don't want to carry two separate devices with me everywhere. If it's just for in-house use, I'd rather choose a larger tablet than a tiny phone.
Concerning Librem 5, they work too: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Cellul...
Your love of it probably comes from the familiar feeling you have from being abused by Linux distros on desktop - it's Stockholm syndrome.
I'm glad you are able to post to a message board on your phone, that's a huge step, yes, but this is sounding eerily familiar to the "huge steps" desktop linux distros have been making for decades.
Well, good. Destkop Linux has come a huge way. I was playing around with Linux as a kid, and it wasn't mature enough for my needs. Fast forward to 2020 and I've had my parents on Linux without issues, I've currently got my nieces on Linux with zero issues, even though they're using those computers for all of their remote learning during the pandemic, and even though I haven't been able to visit them in person to fix any issues. I run Linux on 100% of my personal computers and it works great.
I don't think Linux is for everyone, but we're at the point where it's crazy to say that Linux isn't functionally competitive with Mac/Windows for some people, particularly professionals or nontechnical people on managed computers.
I used to play with Linux for ideological reasons, now I use Linux because I want to get work done in a stable environment. I used to avoid recommending Linux to anyone who wasn't technical, now if I can set the computer up for them I only recommend Linux because I know that Linux won't break behind my back.
Whether that's because Linux has gotten way better or because Windows/Mac has gotten way worse and is way less stable than it used to be -- you can be the judge of that. A Linux smartphone that worked 80-90% as well as the Linux desktop would be usable as a daily driver for me. That's at the point where I would feel comfortable getting rid of my Android phone.
I personally wouldn't run Ubuntu for myself, I think it falls into some of the same traps as desktops like Windows where I don't really have complete insight into what packages are running. I run Arch & Manjaro on my own computers. But I'm not the target demographic for distros like Ubuntu.
The big things when I'm setting up a computer for someone else are:
- the distro should be popular enough that software/advice is available for it.
- it should run some kind of user friendly desktop environment (Gnome, etc...)
- it should be stable enough that it's not going to randomly break for them (so I put people on Ubuntu LTS releases, none of these people need the latest and greatest versions of every software package). I do not want their computer to break when I'm not around.
Aside from that, I don't think the distro matters too much, and I think there are a lot of distros that fulfill the above criteria. The big strength of Linux for less technical people is that you need one technical person to set it up once, and then you don't really need to touch it afterwards.
Anecdotal, but over the past few years I've debugged more random Windows issues for people than Linux issues (where random in this case means "I woke up today and my computer didn't work"). I've been hearing multiple issues from people where their Windows laptops just have graphics drivers that stop working one day, or where the HDMI port suddenly doesn't output anything. If I'm handling support for someone else, I basically never want to get a call like that, and I never want to try and debug it remotely.
So Linux means that those calls mostly just go away. I only need to worry about their hardware once. I think my nieces have had maybe one driver issue since I installed their computers -- and they're actively installing proprietary software like Zoom for their schoolwork. My parents never install anything, so a Linux install for them is basically just set it and forget it.
I consider user friendliness mostly just a buzzword in linux world these days. Almost everything works out of the box and if not you still need specific knowledge and/or help (and willingness to google error messages) to solve the issue no matter what distro you choose. If you have some special hardware or needs then some distros are better and easier to use but that's another story.
Antergos is what I recommend these days to beginners since it's easy and simultaneously offers most (all) of the benefits of Arch. Modern rolling release distros in general are nothing to be scared of.
Most of the work is done in the browser/libre office and the rest doesn't matter (wifi works out of the box and has a GUI, you don't really need anything else).
They aren't wandering much, though, so as long as the OS doesn't get in their way, they are happy.
Sure, but 50% of what a smartphone does are anti-features anyhow.
Maybe having to drop to CLI a few times a day is better than being spied on, for some people.
I just got my Pinebook Pro last week (and typing this comment on it), and funny enough, I've been more productive on it for side projects than I have been for months.
I kinda wanted a PineTab, and so am a little sad to hear about the LCD delays, but their commentary and rationale on the delays and LCD QA is a type of transparency that I haven't heard in quite some time and it just builds hype for me.
I could get the same "constrained hardware" effect by just hacking an older 2015 laptop, but the laptop is essentially a 2015 CPU with 2019 parts, so if I were to hack an older laptop to upgrade it'd likely be ~$200 since I wouldn't have the advantage of purchasing + assembling parts in bulk to reduce cost (also, my older laptop doesn't have a GPU).
Aside from cost, something a hacked older laptop wouldn't have (unless I rip out the CPU from its motherboard, which I wouldn't be willing to do) is the pretty amazing case and how light it is. The lightweightedness and good feel of the case makes it extremely portable for me.
Some might argue that "constrained hardware" is a con, but to me that's like saying using a headless system is a con. If you don't need/want it, why use it? Additionally, it's not like you're paying an extra/similar amount for lesser hardware -- it falls far below the typical market $/perf curve.
Really looking forward to that one, it seems like a good contender to the TS80/TS100 irons but more open and so on.
It should be due for release around end of September, so ... fingers crossed. :)
> Right, the Pinecil is coming along; Ben Brown who’s porting his firmware to the RISC-V chip ran into some problems with the prototype we sent him (our fault), so a new unit is on its way to him now. Once he confirms that everything is working as intended we’ll file a production request with the factory. I too am waiting for it with anticipation and hope that it won’t be much longer before we get it in the store.
- Calls/SMS are working and fairly reliable, although I haven't used them a huge amount
- There is some suspend/power saving stuff implemented, and while I haven't had to take it on the go with me for very long (due to quarantine), I think the battery should at least last a full day now, but I think there's definitely room for improvement
- Camera should be working on all distros, and there's recently been developments to get 1080p photos, and a 30 FPS "preview" (viewfinder?). These improvements should be on all the distros soon, but IIRC they're only on PmOS and UBPorts right now
- Firefox is working pretty well for web browsing. PmOS has a mobile configuration for it  (that's also shipped with Alarm now), that fixes/improves some of the UI, adds pinch zoom support, etc. Aside from the occasional crash, I've found it to be pretty fast and reliable (at least compared to when I last tried Gnome Web). The downside is that it's still not fully optimized for touch/mobile compared to other options. Will be interested to see if Mozilla/someone else add some kind of mobile interface to desktop Firefox.
- Tested yesterday and bluetooth headphones are working pretty well. Had some issues pairing in the UI, so I had to use SSH and bluetoothctl, but after that everything was pretty smooth. pavucontrol also seems to be working ok if you need something that's missing from the Phosh settings app.
- Fractal and Nheko work pretty well for Matrix, but I'm going to try compiling Mirage  soon, it's been pretty great on desktop, and apparently the UI supports mobile.
This is a rough and very incomplete list, but feel free to ask if there's anything specific I missed.
Regarding battery, I found the suspend gains to not be that useful for me. I don't know if it's just me, but you give me a GNU/linux phone and I go wild on what I do with it.
It runs webservices, so my data is accessible to all my devices without needing to use a "cloud" service (that is, it's accessible without leaving my local network and I own my data). And the phone is also my modem and router for all those devices. A consequence of that is that I definitely don't want it to go to suspend 5 minutes after I stop using its keyboard :)
Maybe I'm a outlier there, but if users want their GNU/linux phone to do anything more than simply answering to inputs, suspend won't help. We need to make softwares that consume less power, which I would think never was really a consideration of GNU/linux desktop GUI apps, so there's some work we have to do there (and many cool challenges!). I would also argue that whatever the reason is, we need to make software that consume less power anyway.
Functionally, everything else works: WIFI, apps, suspend, camera, music, etc.
I wouldn't use this as my primary phone, though, as it still crashed on me a few times. Many programs cannot adapt to the screen size effectively; buttons, menus are sometimes not possible to see.
It's not unusable, but not ideal if you want a robust primary phone.
Another drawback (if used as a main phone) is that it's really slow. In fact, it's possibly the slowest device --- with regard to user interaction --- that I have used in years, which is okay for a pinephone, as it is intended as a testing device.
I have run Mobian and Phosh on Pinephone and while clean it was slow, clumsy to switch apps, and did not size most apps properly.
Did you try an X11 DE without compositing? Wayland based stuff (like phosh) is almost unusably slow for me, but on mate and fluxbox everything is very fast (firefox scrolls at ~15FPS instead of ~2 for example.)
If this achieves sufficient penetration to get past the stagnation valley of doom, I'll jump on the bandwagon again with the same hopes. Unfortunately I don't have work as much time as I used to back then though :(
I am not sure if I will use it as my main phone, just because it doesn't support 5G Wifi.
At home it would be the only non iot/smart device that would need 2.4G Wifi and I blocked those from direct internet access.
But Windows is still bad. It can't even display the good clock, as an example of inacceptable bugs.
If I could find the same tablet-laptop format, with ubuntu support, that would be perfect, well until Android gets proper desktop support.
Wireless Dex by Samsung is very promising, but the perfect portbale monitor isn't there yet.
Add to the mix GKIs; AOSP's recent ability to boot from mainline; and the ensuing implication that all of these new adaptive shells being developed rn for the PinePhone could be reused on an Android device ; and the thought of 2021 has me salivating.
 Mostly, anyway. Some stuff would still be purpose-built, but realistically the main limiting factor for my phone as a daily driver at this point is the form factor.
 Assuming bootloader unlock, at least until we see how DSUs play out.
Incidentally ZeroTier is new to me, and an interesting rabbit hole in itself (along with the BSL, which is also a first-time read) since I'm in a similar spot with VPNs.
I RDP into my Windows desktop from my laptop running Ubuntu and my iPhone without trouble. I use Remmina on Ubuntu, and the Microsoft RDP app  on iOS.
Before this I was fiddling with TightVNC and a reverse SSH'ing from Window, but ultimately RDP through ZeroTier was (surprisingly) the easiest and most stable way I acheived.
Fedora runs quite well on lots of 2-in-1 pc's (e.g. tablet form factor plus detachable keyboard) these days. I've not really tried Ubuntu, but the hardware tends to be a lot fiddlier than typical laptops or desktops and Fedora has better support for it than Debian-derived distros in my experience. And the GNOME desktop from Fedora works quite well as a "pro" tablet environment.
I'm in France, it's 13:27. I'm confused about how one can mess so much with this basic feature. It's not even a timezone issue !
Is this only the second phone to have kill switches for these devices?
Or are there others about which I'm just not aware?
Yes, compared with iPhones or Android phones, but not really. It requires two hands and at least several seconds. You will definitely miss that cool photo moment.
The deal could have a significant effect on who they end up sourcing SoCs from, and what IP is on those SoCs.
I placed an order July 31 and still don't have shipment information for a PineBook Pro laptop. Support hasn't gotten back to me with any dates for 5 days now.
I appreciate the fact that they are a small team. It just seems odd that the next shipment has been planned and I haven't heard anything on the shipment before that one.