No need to create yet another online account on a service that may share (or sell or probably lose) my workout and health information. The workout recommendations are computed on-device, and the data stays on the devices (health data is encrypted before storing on iCloud or in iTunes/Finder backups on the Mac). This is how private I prefer it to be.
The casual fitness market (for lack of a better term) is really huge. With Apple Watch SE and the standalone yearly price (covering family members) which seems like a great deal, this is just the beginning of another growth area for Apple. If Apple combines fitness with fun, like Wii Fit or Ring Fit Adventure, that’ll be the biggest worldwide fitness service ever.
I can’t wait to try this out.
I spend a fair amount of time on fitness and haven't found any tracking app that floats my boat -- Apple's being especially awful from a UX perspective in my opinion -- and I'd really like to think that if I come up with a better idea, I won't have to subsidize Tim Cook's latest vertical takeover with 30% of my indie revenue, or worse: my customers' indie revenue.
At the risk of veering off topic, I think Apple is making a huge mistake trying to capture as much app-related revenue as possible. Passionate developers are a big part of what enables their industry-leading margins on all that shiny hardware. 30% is fair, or at least "normal," for some things, but trying to get it from my personal trainer is beyond the pale.
Apple needs developers far less now than it did ten or fifteen years ago. They have been very successful at commoditising 3rd party software.
Well it’s a minimum baseline kind of thing: I use a specific app for skiing and biking but for my needs it’s just fine for hiking, running, IIT. Some others may want specialized apps for those — great! But my needs there are pretty trivial, and actually t acted as the “gateway drug” for me to buy the specialized apps I did.
Say I make a training platform that does some interaction (one-to-many as is quite typical of training) and also handles the payments as well as tracking etc.
As I understand the rules "I" will have to give 30% to Apple in that case, but if my business model is fine with say 5%, won't she (the trainer) effectively pay the rest?
YET ANOTHER feature that is linked to ONE SINGLE account. If apple decides to block your account, everything is gone. This happened some time ago to my microsoft account - everything gone. And why? Because I have uploaded (automatically) a nude picture of my gf to their cloud, it was detected by their algorithm and my account was locked.
I had to communicate with microsoft by a PAPER LETTER(!) to understand WHY my account was locked in the first place and that they would not care to unlock it.
This happened 3 years ago. Their policy might differ today regarding nude content. But for me it was a shock and a lesson.
Apple is known to start enforcing broad rules in new ways without notice. Unless they've made a positive statement confirming that such photos are allowed (I don't know, seems unlikely), I would assume that it's possible for Apple to turn on a nudity classification ML on everyone's photos tomorrow and ban anyone that matches just like Microsoft. I also think that Apple seems to respect user privacy / rights better than Microsoft (though not so much developers). So you might say it's unlikely, but my point is that it's possible; act accordingly. Is it your personal account and you have a backup and you don't think the risk is worth the hassle? Sure, do whatever you want. But is this Apple account even associated with the developer account of an app that makes your living? I would think twice.
For example, did you use the same album each time? Did you both uploaded to the album or only her or you? Did you keep the previous photos in the album? How'd you feel seeing yourself in the album?
Curious as I've never heard anyone shading albums ... Makes sense of course.
To the best of my knowledge the only thing Microsoft searches for and actions in user uploaded files is content that hits against PhotoDNA. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna
10-20 years ago it was pretty normal to keep and show off nude photos of your kids. I've seen plenty of nude photos of my friends from "a heatwave in the garden + paddling pool" when they were a toddler.
There's nothing sexual or nude about it unless you want to make it that way. For 99.x% percent of us, having one of two genders is as universal as it comes...
The practice finding its way into the modern cloud is completely unsurprising.
let me point out that PhotoDNA can't check a woman's drivers license, and getting shut out of your account because you love an A cup is pretty dismal stuff.
Two words: Pear Shaped
(Young/foreign moderators won’t get it and downvote..it’s like a double entendre do love this site.)
Hey at least they’re physically fit!
even though i like and almost exclusively use apple computing devices, i feel apple has jumped the shark as a lifestyle brand. the whole thing feels so fake and overproduced (reiterating this, as it's not the first time feeling this way). the tech and products are still interesting; the marketing and the branding are increasingly not.
fitness+ was a definite turn-off for me.
And, more interestingly, what would that ad look like?
"Ugh, appealing broadly to most Americans is so lame, we should inject some 'inclusive' racial/class flavor!" sounds like the utterance that birthed every cringey ad of the last 10 years.
the dissonance comes from a company who's strategy has clearly shifted downmarket and into lower-price services since the peaking of iphone sales in 2015 but is composed of an overwhelming majority of decision makers and marketers too far removed from anything less than an upper(-middle) class existence. they're trying to sell a lifestyle they firmly believe is desirably luxurious to a broad group largely composed of people with starkly different lives and challenges (in a year that's clearly made those differences more readily apparent to all). they slap on a layer of feel-good, socially-conscious color over a monotonous, lululemoned lifestyle to push a decidedly limited-appeal product, and they can't even see the mismatch or disingenuousness of it.
you see the same blindered strategic mistake with news+, icloud, and even tv+, whereas apple music (which, along with ipod, saved apple from irrelevance) actually cut across class and race and appealed to a broad and diverse customer base, and without trying so hard to sell us on it.
besides the interesting socioeconomic angle, fitness+ is a clear indication that apple is losing touch with customers, a dangerous sign for their future.
Their incredible success has been in convincing non-rich folks their product is worth stretching their finances to get a new one as often as they can.
Every product line is marketed as a luxury product. It’s not surprising that their services are also marketed in the same way.
If you're talking about Angela Ahrendts, she left last year.
Are Nike basketball sponsorship deals targeted at black people or are they targeted at the most successful and famous basketball players regardless of their skin pigmentation?
It was an upsetting, almost cartoonish detail in the story, but it might be helpful to you here. On a rational level she should not be afraid of sausage. But years of abuse meant that she was. It's sad, but understandable. It's just how trauma and conditioning work.
One doesn't need to be a victim of racism to empathise with the fact that it has a profound and traumatising impact on people. Maybe you know something about OP that I don't, but if you are right, and there's no reason for them to be talking about race in this instance, it's unlikely you'll persuade them with incredulity that they hold the point of view they do.
OP didn't point out that anyone was white, they pointed out that although Apple included a variety of races in the video, they believe that this is a service which will appeal to upper and upper middle class Americans, which means predominantly white Americans.
They are talking about class, and noting as an aside that they believe this service caters to a predominantly white audience as a consequence of catering to the upper and middle classes.
The point is inane because ultimately Apple sells luxury consumer goods which are affordable only to the upper and middle classes, and as you point out Apple rightly has no interest in fighting for equality through its new fitness service.
I agree with your point, I'm just saying that OP's point, whilst unintentionally clumsy, did not bring race into it in a meaningful way.
This is so not true.
As someone who works with students from families that are low-income, they have lots of Apple products.
If Apple is a luxury brand—which I disagree with—then it’s the most accessible luxury brand out there.
It certainly is a quality brand. There’s way too much focus on $1000+ flagship phones instead of items like the iPhone SE, which even low-income people can afford at $199 on contract.
The Apple Watch 3 is also $199. These devices are less expensive than a shirt or scarf in a Neman Marcus…
I don't see what the problem is, honestly.
Given Apple's own iCloud security detail  stating explicitly:
> For certain sensitive information, Apple uses end-to-end encryption. This means that only you can access your information, and only on devices where you’re signed into iCloud. No one else, not even Apple, can access end-to-end encrypted information.
> In some cases, your iCloud data may be stored using third-party partners’ servers—such as Amazon Web Services or Google Cloud Platform—but these partners don’t have the keys to decrypt your data stored on their servers.
Can't you see where they're going with this?
Can you see the slippery slope you're invoking? Apple owns the operating system you use. That is where it stops in your example. They don't force ownership of software, the network stack, the gym you visit (lol), where you work, etc. Where's your head at, other than "ApPlE BaD"?
If another major fitness brand wants to do the same the probably cannot because:
- The tight integration is not possible, only Apple can build these kind of Apple Watch experiences.
- They would need to pay Apple 30%, maybe making this not profitable especially against Apple's own offering that can have internal pricing where the 30% never comes into play.
They do not.
> It has its own tv.
The do not
> your fingerprints
Fingerprints never leave the device or stored in iCloud
Apple NAS: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Apple-AirPort-Time-Capsule-2TB-St...
Apple 802.11ac wireless AP: https://www.priceblaze.com/me918ll-a-Apple-Network-Routers?r...
Apple TV: https://www.apple.com/apple-tv-4k/
I was wrong about printers though. They just have their own proprietary printer protocol in air print
And how do you know those biometrics stay on device? How do you know they will continue to stay on the device? It's not your kernel. It's THEIR kernel. They can do whatever they want.
And the Apple TV isn't actually a TV :/
I use an AppleTV every single day and their streaming offering is nothing more than an app that I have hidden at the bottom of the screen. At the top I have a dozen streaming apps e.g. Netflix, Youtube, Amazon Prime.
I can’t tell if you’re trolling? You also haven’t said what it means to “own” fingerprints.
Then we’d have had a good alternative.
If you remove everything Google from Android 19, you'll be surprised how little it can do.
One nice user on Reddit made a list  of AOSP apps replaced by Google:
Google Services Framework removed in 1.1, replaced by Google Play Services
Search removed in 1.5, replaced by Google
Music removed in 2.3, replaced by Play Music
Browser removed in 4.2, replaced by Chrome.
Calendar removed in 4.4, replaced by Calendar (G)
PinyinIME removed in 4.4, replaced by Google Pinyin IME
Gallery removed in 5.0, replaced by Photos (G)
Messaging removed in 6.0, replaced by Messages (G)
Camera removed in 6.0, replaced by Camera (G)
LatinIME removed in 6.0, replaced by GBoard.
Contacts removed in 7.0, replaced by Contacts (G)
Phone removed in 7.1, replaced by Dialer (G)
Clock removed in 8.1, replaced by Clock (G)
Calculator removed in 9.0, replaced by Calculator (G).
This extends to APIs too. For example, Android Location API  has a very nice warning on the documentation page:
> This API is not the recommended method for accessing Android location.
The Google Location Services API, part of Google Play services, is the preferred way to add location-awareness to your app. It offers a simpler API, higher accuracy, low-power geofencing, and more. If you are currently using the android.location API, you are strongly encouraged to switch to the Google Location Services API as soon as possible.
To learn more about the Google Location Services API, see the Location API overview.
Hope I removed some vagueness left by my previous comment.
As you can see they also provide examples of alternative apps that can be used that do not rely on Google, or you can install F-Droid and use apps from the open source marketplace that are open source as well.
This is much more than Apple, who won't even let you install apps outside their app store. While it would be nice for Google to open source their apps as well, they aren't necessary and there are plenty of alternatives and phone manufacturers who have built their entire reputation on providing an alternative to the Google experience while using Android.
And this can be applied to nearly every 'improvement' in all Android releases. Can you name any improvements to AOSP in the past five years? All I see on every their presentation is more and more Google Services, FCM, Assistant, etc.
Android as most people understand it is not open source.
Google promised an open alternative and have simply reneged on that promise.
There is not a multitude of phone manufacturers using an open source operating system.
The Android that phone manufacturers use is largely closed source, and only part of it is open source.
This has been irrefutably documented elsewhere in this thread.
This thread is about phones.
The fact that you can use the open source components of Android to build a home security system, but not a phone, just proves the point, that Android as a phone operating system, as most people consider it to be, is not open source.
You only have to look elsewhere in this thread to see all of the features which have been moved out of AOSP into Google Play Services to see this proved.
Whether it boots or not is irrelevant if it doesn’t do what people expect a smartphone OS to do.
Yes, there is AOSP, but that’s only a small part of what constitutes an OS these days.
Here’s a link to a post showing how dismal things are: https://bitcannon.net/post/finding-an-alternative-to-ios/
Indeed the fact that you have to install a different operating system that isn’t even called “Android” proves that Android as people know it is not open source.
At the same time, I also see a lot of value in the Apple products and services that I use, especially when combined with its stance on privacy (which is far ahead of any other large tech company). I’m just hoping, perhaps naively, that Apple doesn’t become like Google or Facebook or Amazon.
This is what bothers me. I think there is a lot of evidence Apple's claims that they keep as much of this data on-device as possible. Even so, Apple's increasing dominance in certain aspects of my life bothers me.
After watching Google progress from being a company I loved and respected into a gross corporation, I'm concerned will eventually follow suit. Even if you assume Apple's current management are a bunch of great guys, in 10 years Cook might get replaced by a corrupt douchebag.
It's concerning. But at the same time I appreciate the previous posters view as well, I'd rather not have my information painted across dozens of small companies who are easily acquired.
They were profitable enough under that model to buy You Tube, Android, and many of the other services now under the Google umbrella. I would assume their business model would continue to be selling advertising based on relevant search terms.
So, no. I don’t like that. Do you think Apple is going to start buying churches? Why?
Using their AR technology (iPad/iPhone/etc), they can replicate a lot of the same functionality a multi-thousand dollar product like the Tempo provides. They can automatically correct form, recognize weights, etc.
1) Not having a live instructor is both a blessing and a curse, but largely a blessing for us introverts - I'm not comfortable with somebody watching me work out. But maybe I'll give Mixpose a shot when the AI option is released and has had time to mature.
2. I can't personally justify the high cost of the Mixpose service - an actual gym membership is around the same price (and that includes a couple of 1-on-1 personal trainer sessions each month), and my current yoga app (without feedback, admittedly) is $20 per year. In direct comparison to Apple Fitness+, I can sign my wife and myself up for the new Apple One Premiere bundle for $30/mo and get music streaming, news, 2TB of storage, and other goodies on top of Fitness+.
3. If the rumors of Fitness+ utilizing iPhone camera and Watch sensor information simultaneously are true, I feel other AI form-correction solutions won't stand a chance - but I'd be happy to be disproved on that front!
> Fitness+ is only using Apple Watch.
While this is currently true, my original comment was stating that Fitness+ would be worth it to me, for $10/mo, if Apple were to make an integrated movement tracking system using multiple devices, as the comment I replied to posted.
Yoganotch itself is new (2020) but we've been building these devices for a few years - have a number of peer reviewed papers published based on Notch (https://wearnotch.com/papers).
Think on the Nike's kinect game. Or Wii Fit, but 10 years later with a whole ecosystem behind it.
One of the most exciting services in a long time
I think he does. That's why he stated, "I believe this is a stepping off point for more fully fledged fitness products from Apple."
 Something like this, but with an odometer and WiFi: https://www.amazon.com/Goplus-Exercise-Trainers-Flywheel-Sta...
To put it another way: why should Apple buy Peloton? Apple itself is already a premium brand with huge awareness, so a buy for brand reasons isn't that persuasive. Peloton has a whole range of hardware but none of it is compatible with existing Apple hardware, so integration might be a drag.
Apple would want to design their stationary bike from The ground up w their bicycle experts. (They may already have done this a few times)
Also, letting Peloton do it’s thing is a small safety valve on the anti competitive question.
That is how I feel about most AR is in general. It just filters out the app background and makes whatever your camera is pointing at the background.. without really adding any value.
I'm sure AR will have some absolutely amazing applications in the future. I just haven't seen much of it yet.
It's like when you're at a Cheap Trick concert and the singer shouts, "Hello, Madison! Are you ready to rock?!"
Hopefully, the concert is actually in Madison, and isn't in Hoboken.
For those that don't know the backstory, Bucharest is the capital of Romania. Budapest is the capital of Hungary. Romania and Hungary don't like each other. The safest way to get a crowd to boo as an entertainer you is to mix up the two names :-)
Or, for more embarrassment: https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/400-athle...
The Twitch business model revolves around communities more than it does a streamer saying someone's name. I subscribe to streamers but the emoticons to use in other chats. Many people donate not just for someone to say their name but for their donation to get read out by text-to-speech engines. Some streamers even have AI driven TTS which has famous people voices.
The same can't really be said about things like Peloton.
Fitness+ absolutely is encroaching on that subscription workout space, but a physical bike/treadmill and a watch are not competitors. If someone wants a stationary bike they're not going to be shopping for a smart watch.
I would be scared if I ran Peloton. Their entire MO is the ecosystem; you buy the bike, with the integrated tablet, and use their fitness program. Outside of the top 1% who could drop three grand on the Peloton system without blinking, Apple's whole "$500 dirt cheap bike + $300 brand new iPad (that you may already have) + $30/month Apple One Premier" system (that you may already subscribe to) is killer.
Yeah, you can BYOB to Peloton, but Fitness+ (especially as a part of Apple One now) is dirt cheap. At that point, Peloton (and competing products) basically just has to hope that the workout quality in Fitness+ sucks, which isn't likely (this is Apple we're talking about, they rarely half-ass things).
The main drive of Peloton if you aren't buying their bike is the instructors and high quality classes - I struggle to imagine many people would care more about watch integration than class quality, and I don't think Apple will be able to win out on the latter anytime soon.
I would not bet money on Apple losing on class quality, let alone variety.
Also Apple is offering yearly pricing that works out to $6.67/mo...and then there is the bundle which if you are in the ecosystem already essentially makes it a free service...
This is key. How many people would subscribe to Prime TV if they didn’t already have a Prime membership. My guess is not many. Luckily for Netflix people consume enough that it’s not really a killer. But with fitness you probably only need a single provider. That said, I’ve lost confidence in apple’s ability to execute, but this seems like a race they could easily dominate if done right.
You'll be able to go on Amazon and buy [Bike/Treadmill/etc] with "Fitness+ Compatible" that streams wirelessly to your watch/phone.
Then Peleton offers no value add. They're just a treadmill maker charging 250% of their competitors.
Peloton did also just release a new bike that does work with Apple's GymKit too, so, I don't think it's just the metrics.
This really isn't new at all (Zwift, Trainerroad, Sufferfest, Aaptiv, etc). Hell even today all that Peloton offers over competitors is nice treadmills and a closed/proprietary protocol for integration (unlike those other examples). I do expect that Apple will likely package and market it very thoughtfully for mass-market, which is significant. One could argue that Peloton is also all about its mass-market appeal, which is exactly why we're talking about Peloton and not the enthusiast-oriented brands like Wahoo.
Mirror... I never really understood that one in the first place but I'll assume the folks who love it love it probably feel the same way.
But with the Apple product, you're not limited to bike and treadmill. It was demonstrated with all kinds of workout routines.
And replacing a $1,000 Peloton with the far cheaper stationary bike of your choosing will be attractive to some people.
It doesn't sound like it would be too hard to do this with computer vision. I guess it would depend on whether the device is positioned where it can see your legs -- or you might be able to figure it out by observing head or shoulder movement.
Especially if you're one of the millions of people in a downsizing mood.
$1,000 + $30/month for Peleton, or a monthly fee to Apple that vanishes into the bundle of things you'd subscribe to anyway and use the devices you may already have. Or if you were thinking of getting one anyway, now you have a further incentive.
Peloton or Mirror at the hotel. No. Outside. No. On vacation. No. Plus I thing this is a wider offering. Peloton yoga and weights workouts are really sub-par. I have no experience with mirror.
Disclosure: Shareholder of Apple and Lululemon. Not a shareholder in Peloton.
Business-wise, it would be a disaster. As soon as it was discovered (or disclosed) that the trainer saying, “Good hustle, Janet!” is an AI robot, Janet is not going to react the same way.
I'm used to Siri talking to me already. Although she rarely says my name, if she were cheering me on during a personalized workout, I'd be lying if I said that wouldn't be motivating.
My fitness 'workflow' is pretty well established, and it's Apple Watch centric already. If this Fitness+ business will count my lift reps for me, I'll probably get it.
I'd be more worried about apple integrating into the hardware people want.
There probably won't be an impact on PTON until Apple starts selling stationary cycles.
Sleeping well. No bad dreams. Less chance of illness.
In a cage
3.1.3(d) Person-to-Person Experiences: If your app enables the purchase of realtime person-to-person experiences between two individuals (for example tutoring students, medical consultations, real estate tours, or fitness training), you may use purchase methods other than in-app purchase to collect those payments. One-to-few and one-to-many realtime experiences must use in-app purchase.
As this thread demonstrates, the maneuver was quite successful, if the idea was to give the impression they are becoming less anticompetitive rather than more so!
This is a very unusual product area for Apple. This end presumes the service will be a success.
There is many a slip between the cup and the sip.
Now it does, and for antitrust purposes that makes all the difference.
At this point, it's only a matter of time before Apple gets broken up or severely sanctioned (more likely the latter), and it will be entirely their own fault.
Already battered by the pandemic, a lot of them have been successfully transitioning to an online only business model. This will make it harder.
You don’t make the same kind of human connection when the communication is one-way.
Put it this way: if internet streaming was going to kill off fitness instructors, it would have happened already. Apple isn’t doing something new here, they’re just putting their own spin on it and vertically integrating it.
Companies doing similar services might have more to worry about, though I think there is a lot of room to grow in this market, and i think it’s “niche-y” by nature, so I think there’s probably plenty of room for competitors.
I'm paying my local fitness instructor $25/mo for access to a private facebook group where she streams live classes via Facebook Live every day. The communication is one-way (you can post comments in chat, but the instructor can't see you). Nothing is in person.
This directly competes with my local fitness instructor who has transitioned 100% to live stream. Fitness+ is $5 more expensive than the local instructor, but of course cheaper if they bundle that cost into Apple Music, TV, etc.
Edit: But TBH, I'll always prefer my local fitness instructor's low-quality live streams. Something about professionally made workout videos with movie quality cinematography is not motivating for me personally.
The first 5 minutes of the class are personally my favorite - the instructor is a hilariously funny person and a great community builder.
I’ve taken a lot of fitness classes with many different instructors. From my experience, people rarely stick with an instructor (or workout program) because of the quality of the actual workout... they stick with it only if they enjoy spending an hour of their day with the instructor on a personal / social level. Most people would choose a mediocre workout with an engaging instructor over an amazing workout with a monotone boring instructor.
In Vancouver, BC, where pandemic response has been relatively good, even there a successful in person fitness business Tight Club has opted to stop renting their space entirely and they've pivoted completely to online.
If video workouts were to replace fitness instructors it would have happened over 5 years ago.
I agree that it's bad timing. But where I live, the gyms are open, and I see personal trainers working with clients every time I go.
This doesn't compete with personal trainers or in-person gym classes, not really. As indicated elsewhere, it competes with Peloton and YouTube, and where Peloton is concerned, I'd expect them to be announcing an integrating pretty soon.
Then again Apple still doesn't let third parties design their own Apple Watch faces. Seems like it would still be a pretty good and logical extension of iTunes U.
(I suspect it makes things harder for mediocre-or-worse instructors, and better for good-or-better instructors.)
Which will be the real problem for Peloton and the other dedicated fitness offerings out there. Bundles are powerful, even if they sometimes are on the wrong side of the sunk cost fallacy.
So if you don't have an Apple TV, you can't watch on a TV? That's a non starter for me (Peloton customer), seems a bit rubbish to be exercising in my living room and not using the TV to display the class.
just launched this year. Happy to chat with anyone who is into quantified yoga.
P.S. I am one of the founders.
P.P.S. Saw someone mention it :)
Food-related (both online grocery shopping and home cooking) were one of the main areas their data suggests will stay but online fitness was right up there too.
Following this perhaps programmatically created work outs can eventually be uniquely tailored to the individual workout needs.
Plus you now have Amazon coming into the market with their Halo Fitness bands.
“The European Commission has opened an in-depth investigation to assess the proposed acquisition of Fitbit by Google under the EU Merger Regulation. The Commission is concerned that the proposed transaction would further entrench Google's market position in the online advertising markets by increasing the already vast amount of data that Google could use for personalisation of the ads it serves and displays.”
So, the jury is still out on that one.
For them, there's a Fitbit.
I have a Steel HR & the battery life is measured in weeks.
The EKG is ... really tempting, though - that's about the only thing that's pulling me toward the Apple Watch.