Hacker News new | comments | show | ask | jobs | submit login

so sad.

first of all, nothing about java is good. nothing. can anyone on HN name one single app they use daily that is programmed in java? anyone? no! how is it that a language designed from the beginning to be cross platform doesn't have a single mainstream cross platform desktop app? they even couldn't get it to be a platform for web browser plugins, how pathetic is that! and even when it does run as a web browser plugin my computer has a seizure, hard disk starts humming, mouse pointer starts spinning, browser becomes unresponsive...

java does exist out there though. ironically enough in controlled server-side environments for in-house "business" web applications. that one really boggles me, i'd rather have my face ripped off than write a web app in java. no, seriously.

let java and the jvm just die, it's bad, it's all bad. the jvm was a bad idea, it sounds good in theory but C/C++/Python apps are 1000x more widespread than java apps. isn't distributability the entire POINT of the jvm?? why is it that java sucks at actually "running everywhere"? keep the intermediate language private to your language implementation, it serves no actual benefit anywhere else and you know what else? a "CLR" isn't actually an interesting problem. it's just a bad abstraction, like everything else in java.

anyway, here you have this guy, gavin king, making all these empty hype-y hand-wavy claims that java was the first language to perfectly combine static typing, readable syntax, and lexical scoping (did you run out of bullet points?) to serve as a host language for large team development and "large-scale deployments of multi-user applications." give me a break, man. if i ran my team or deployed my app with java as our host language my job would be 10-100 times more difficult and i would probably be 10e6 more unhappy in my actual life.

then this guy knocks on the lambda calculus. i should have stopped reading right then and there, obviously he must be a moron. what's next, REs got you down? if you think the lambda calculus is only used by "theoretical" computer scientists you should not be coding and you should definitely not be attempting to write a new language. you're ruining the children, the entire practice of programming by poisoning our culture with this misinterpretation of the lambda calculus. for a dude who keeps wanking over "automatic memory-management" you'd think he'd have some respect for LISP.

did you catch the three bloated slides of "Why we're frustrated?" lol come on, come on now. stop lying to yourself. you hate java, why are you trying to replace it with someone so much more complicated and senseless? how do you expect "business" programmers to understand this:

  Html hello {
      Head head { title = “Squares”; }
      Body body {
          Div { 
              cssClass = “greeting”;
              “Hello” name “!” 
this is actually supposed to be a series of class instantiations. the fact that "This looks like a typesafe declarative language (for example XML) with built-in templating. But it’s actually written in a general-purpose language" is actually a bad thing. don't even attempt to get the json fans on your side.

look if you're a psycho and want to program like a psycho why don't you just write a small runtime and a compiler that compiles your code to C (or java since you like the jvm so much) and be done with it. that's it, a weekend hack project. with all the tools that exist today for generating compilers, that's how it should be. let it evolve as you actually use the language. i presume you are writing this psycho language for an actual project you're working on right?

after 50 years of high level language implementations the world doesn't have any more room for a programming language for no end. C, Scheme, Haskell, Python, Javascript are good enough. it's time to make stuff happen. it's time to create good AI, it's time to engineer robots, it's not time to add lots of senseless syntax to java and call that a two-year project.

> can anyone on HN name one single app they use daily that is programmed in java?

Twitter: http://engineering.twitter.com/2011/04/twitter-search-is-now...

> can anyone on HN name one single app they use daily that is programmed in java

1. IntelliJ IDEA 2. Eclipse (and its derivative works) 3. My bank's e-portal (ok it sucks, but it's written in Java)

Btw, I'm a Java programmer so my opinion is biased, but I think JVM is different than Java (programming language). I don't really like Java's verbosity, but I'm betting big on JVM. Hence I learn Groovy and Scala (both run on JVM).

Plus pretty much every Android app. That's not JVM, just Java, but still. Answers the question and nothing to sneeze at either, I would think.


I like some of your flame, and I like the style, but I will reiterate others' disagreement on some points. It's/its? wrong to pillory the JVM along with Java The Language. I hate scala and groovy, but they're/their designers cling to the JVM for very good reasons. Also, "C/C++/Python apps are 1000x more widespread than java apps" is kind of imprecise - why tack Python on the end there? That is like saying Apples and Oranges are more widespread than Bananas. I agree with the overall sentiment, but the parent got a little to firehosey with his rant. I really like the style, I have to say it again. Hacker News really needs more style. Would upvote again.

But we def. do not need yet another Java replacement and its/it's probably a bad sign if they didn't start with a compiler instead of a slide presentation.

> can anyone on HN name one single app they use daily that is programmed in java?

Eclipse? NetBeans? SOAPUi...

> let java and the jvm just die, it's bad, it's all bad. the jvm was a bad idea

It may be a good idea for you to have reconsider that opinion on the JVM. Java as a language is arguable but JVM is definitely an engineering marvel.

You can look at languages like Clojure, Scala and JRuby on the JVM. It gets you the goodness of JVM plus a great language to use for your app.


Guidelines | FAQ | Support | API | Security | Lists | Bookmarklet | DMCA | Apply to YC | Contact