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Mao Kun Map (wikipedia.org)
44 points by Thevet on July 26, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 23 comments

> Of interest is the inclusion of what are interpreted as Paracel Islands, Macclesfield Bank or Spratly Islands – the names Shitang (石塘), Wansheng Shitangyu (萬生石塘嶼), and Shixing Shitang (石星石塘) are noted on the map, although identification of these islands may vary with different authors.

Ahh, that’s what this is about

What do you mean? Are those the names of those disputed islands in the South China Sea? Are you implying this is Chinese propaganda? If the above is true then it certainly looks like it.

Why would a mention of what may be Spratly islands (its interpretation is not even certain) in the works, be propaganda? Do you mean to say that it is 100% impossible they may have encountered it during their journeys, and that the mention is a completely fabricated lie?

It can be part of propaganda without it being untrue. Propaganda is about making a case for your cause.

I have a hard time accepting this definition of propaganda. Doesn't the word generally have a negative connotation, i.e. the implication that all things labeled propaganda should be dismissed? Truth should not be dismissed, although it must be evaluated in context and in combination with other truths.

Propaganda is more subtle than that.

Good propaganda uses lots of truth, and definitely avoids false things as much as possible.

(I make a distinction between true and not false, in the sense that eg '1 + 1 = 2' is true, 'the moon is made of cheese is false', but 'the US is a great nation' is not false.)

That's why I said 'it must be evaluated in context and in combination with other truths'.

I am confused about what the original poster and the first replyer are trying to say. Are they putting some sort of value judgement on the existance of the information? Are they saying, "it does not matter how much evidence exists indicating that the Chinese may have discovered Spratly Islands long time ago, because the conclusion is still that China has no rights to the Spratly islands, and therefore all true facts about this subject should be dismissed out of hand"?

Or “beware of these facts being used to push some political agenda“. I wonder too what the first 2 posters meant.

Africa is also on the map and that doesn't give China a claim over parts of Africa either.

I don't think anybody thinks that a place being on a map means the country where the map maker is from gets to control that place.

> I don't think anybody thinks that a place being on a map means the country where the map maker is from gets to control that place.

That is literally what the Nine Dash Line is about

> "North Korean authorities were less keen on emphasizing the principle of effective possession (a keystone of the South Korean standpoint), for this would have recognized the Republic of Korea as a legitimate state entity."

For reference, according to https://dprktoday.com/assets/img/top-bg4.png korean unification (modulo some minor bothersome separatists somewhere out in the provinces) is already a thing.

I think Alexander the Great was probably in a more descriptive than prescriptive mood when he was asked upon his deathbed who would inherit his empire. His reply: "the strongest".

(if conflicts are never ended there are no treaties documenting known agreements between conflicting parties. cough cyprus cough)

> Are those the names of those disputed islands in the South China Sea


I guess a linear map of the coastline would be intuitive to a trader used to sailing along the coast, but it was pretty disorienting to try and match it to modern maps.

I think the big island at the end (i.e. leftmost in the gallery) labeled 忽魯謨斯 (Hūlŭmósī in modern Mandarin pronunciation) is supposed to be Hormuz, but I'd never have guessed that if it hadn't been mentioned in the article. (TIL there's not just a Strait of Hormuz but also an island.)

As a Path of Exile player this title was interesting to see.

You might want to read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitava

Their world is an illusion, exile.

Yes, my first thought was "did grinding gear games write something new and technologically interesting?"

How have people been finding the Harvest league in PoE? I'm loving the easier crafting, but dislike the seeds/garden layout/management aspect.

I like even though I'm getting only mediocre crafting options so far because I never took the time to arrange the garden in a way that would allow growing higher tier seeds. It's a pity that they do not come with an auto-arrange feature that does the annoying placements.

I'm hoping if it goes core they will allow importing the layout just like hideouts.

Great idea.

Highlighting connections of storage tanks and pylons would also be helpful.

That was my first thought as well.

As a coastal trading location, Mogadishu is a very old city. It would be fascinating to have a time machine and see some of the first interactions and trade between the Chinese fleets and locals in Mogadishu.

The scanned items may be downloaded as glorious 100+MiB TIFF files, if you're interested.


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