Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Good point. But YouTube is not controlled by an authoritarian fascist-like government which has a world view in direct opposition to what you could refer handwaveingly as "western" and is currently pushing to become the dominant power in the world.

If you furthermore consider how bad the "western world" (mainly Britten and the East India Company) had treated it in the past, some aspects of the Chinese culture and the current Goverment direction western countries expecting any fair or reasonable treatment once china succeeded to become the worlds dominant power is kinda a sad joke.

This is a joke. The "western world" created PRISM and Five Eyes and has been meddling in elections in the third world for almost a century. Additionally, what do you define as the "western world", because by some measures it includes some actually fascist governments like e.g. Saudi Arabia.

A) Having democracy does not correlate with having transparency and freedom, this has been de facto proven.

B) If the "western world" is the bar, the bar is low.

Ah, people love to trivialize comparisons and disregard all context, especially intent.

By analogy you're basically equating tortute in order to prevent the detonation of a bomb to torture in order to detonate a bomb.

Yes, ethically all sides are compromised but as things stand they are by no means all the same.

Also, no one included SA as part of the West.

>By analogy you're basically equating tortute in order to prevent the detonation of a bomb to torture in order to detonate a bomb.

I really can not see how I am doing this. Care to illustrate?

>Also, no one included SA as part of the West.

Fair enough.

> refer handwaveingly as "western"

There is a reason why I used the word hadwaveingly.

>B) If the "western world" is the bar, the bar is low.

And yet China manages to fail this low bar stunningly. To the point that they are running actual concentration camps for Muslims. Something no Western government has done, and the last one to do finished paying reparations to the victims 4 years ago, 70 years after it happened.

Western governments literally have a history of slavery.

Right now, America is running actual concentration camps for African Americans.

Don’t think western governments are any better.

So does nearly every other country


Slavery was first abolished by the west. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery#Abolitionis...

Global abolition of slavery was led by the league of nations in 1926


>Don’t think western governments are any better.

You are welcome to move to China if you think they are better.

After all I moved to the West because I thought it was better.

Seriously not a bad idea. China doesn’t have millions of corona virus infections. And restaurant and bars are open.

But they are white and Anglos so it is OK.

> The "western world" created PRISM and Five Eyes

What do you think PRISM and Five Eyes are? It is my experience that people who bring them up as huge evils have no idea what they are. They typically think that PRISM allows the NSA to read anybody's email (as opposed to being an ingestion system for data collected by the FBI) and that Five Eyes allows governments to indirectly spy on their own citizens, both of which are ridiculous ideas that are legally impossible.

They are electronic surveillance projects which have components that can be used by western governments to conduct blanket surveillance on their own and foreign citizens as illustrated by Wiki Leaks.

> has a world view in direct opposition to what you could refer handwaveingly as "western"

I don't think this is even hand-wavingly a thing. If it is then it doesn't bode well because "we" don't exactly have a great track record of treating people on the other side of the world well.


Trying to draw a parallel between Google and a country that literally tortures and murders its citizens for "unsanctioned beliefs" is disingenuous. Cut the bullshit.

Ignorance of US history of endless human rights abuses (including torture) both domestic and foreign by the US is not an excuse for being condescending and overly confident on an internet forum.

Let's talk about modern day since that's the topic at hand. Who was the last US citizen you know of to be arrested, detained, and killed for voicing opposition to the way the government is run. I'm not saying the US government is perfect (especially in this time, far from it), I'm just saying the comparison isn't remotely apropos. I would say I have the "correct" level of confidence in this regard.

I am talking about the modern day. Why the qualification "US citizen"? Are murders outside the border less of a crime? Are human lives outside the border less valuable? Also, is murder for using speech a much greater crime than murder for other reasons? There are very recent examples of unjust murder of US citizens by the government.

Maybe, but on the surface a lot of moralic values seem to somewhat align.

Also I wouldn't say that YouToube is controlled by an " fascist-lite corporate oligarchy". It something different then fascism, maybe even worse.

It's also off topic in that TikTok being banned doesn't mean YoutToube is better or shouldn't be banned. India just didn't have to fear a militaristic invasion of the US corporate oligarchy...

I'm from a western country and I know for a fact that homicide rate in US is 6 times worse than China

(6/100,000 in US VS <1/100,000 in China)

Maybe US has some problems on its own...

Plus, the average Chinese minority does not fear being shot by the police.

Google Uighurs. Being a minority in China means being subject to genocide.

While being a minority in US on the other hand...

Ask the Native Americans about it.

Even if the quality of these data sources were comparable it still wouldn't be relevant to this conversation. Career criminals killing eachother in major cities has nothing to do with foreign surveillance and human rights.

It has a lot to do with what kind of criminal lobby is in charge

As European I prefer Chinese communists to American warlords that can't stop selling guns to everyone

If you think about it, the "greatest democracy of the World" has homicide rates worse than Nigeria and Congo and is engaged in more wars than any other country.

Can an US citizen really criticize other countries for being fascist?

p.s. the data is good

If europe sides with China, they will eventually be cutoff like what is happening with China. It will take a couple of decades and I don't see it turning around to go back at this point.

The question for Europeans will be which market they prefer to do business in. Are you so sure you prefer your current choices? Does your country have memories from Stalin and Lenin? That's the type of communism you are getting with CCP with a huge helping of corporate espionage, manipulation, and double standards.

Everyone has problems, your comment is off topic and does not enhance the conversation.

US is currently the laughing stock of the world, look at the COVID-19 rate, it is going up after months of mismanagement by trump.

not many countries have problems like that, you can pretty much count on such countries on one hand - US, india and brazil.


verdverm 2 days ago [flagged]

Like rubber to glue, bounces off of me and back to you?


25th percentile means 3/4 of the worlds nations have a lower life expectancy. If the concepts of many and few have switched, I might consider thinking about things you have posted the last few days.

Given your strong sentiments against several groups of people in blanket statements, I suspect you will find yourself consistently down voted and flagged when you speak like this.

Your tone has also been consistently combative, likely another reason you are being down voted

> 25th percentile means 3/4 of the worlds nations have a lower life expectancy


what did you miss from despite having the highest spending per capita?

US has the lowest life expectancy in the entire west.

And it's going down, not up.

It's 46th in that ranking, my country, Italy, is 6th.

USA is even below Lebanon and Estonia.

Lebanon has been at war for the past 40 years and has been bombed several times.

Do you think US citizen know that int their country life expectancy is worse than a country which is literally in ruins?

> I suspect you will find yourself consistently down voted and flagged when you speak like this.\

Do you really believe I care about the downvotes ?

You should care about living in a country where some living standards are lower than many third world countries,

- Infant mortality (deaths/1,000 live births)

USA is 46th, worse than Latvia, Lithuania, Cuba, Belarus, Estonia, Antigua and Barbuda

- Under-five mortality rate per 1000 live births.

USA is 44th, again after countries they consider thirld World, including ex USSR (Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Estonia) and Cuba

BTW, when you talk about other countries fascism, true or not, you should remember that in my country there are US military bases, not Chinese.

The Itavia Flight 870 was shot down in 1980 by NATO fighter jets fighting Libyan jets in civil air space, killing 81 people

It wasn't the Chinese

In the 80s CIA was involved with far right terrorism that killed many innocent people, they were scared that Italy was going "too leftist"

The father of a friend of mine was killed on the 2nd of August of 1980, he was waiting at the train station in Bologna.

We were both kids.

Wikileaks revealed the "Kissinger Cables", documents that Henry Kissinger sent to express the intolerance of the US administration for the Italian justice system that was "being too hard" on the neofascists groups.

If you look at the English Wikipedia page for "strategy of tension" and then at this https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategia_della_tensione_in_It... you will see there's a great difference in the story told and the amount of documentation presented. In particular any document that calls out the US, including all the evidence found in over 40 years of investigation by the Italian authorities, is not mentioned.

Can you guess why?

The Strage del Cermis (Cavalese cable disaster for you non Italian speakers) was caused by an US air pilot, 20 (TWENTY) people died.


It wasn't the Chinese

And there are many other...

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Can you guess now why I don't care about your downvotes?


downvoted for stating the obvious: US living standards are among the worst in the entire west and sometimes worse than second and third world countries.

But Americans don't want to know or listen the truth.

Since you mention East India Company, what makes YouTube different from them?

Please do look into what the East India Company did, I'm in no way qualified to list out the very long list of crimes/misdeeds this company did.

But one large difference is that they had a private army and used it to force through their ways in any non EU country.

It is not absurd to say that the East India Company did occupy India like a country would have occupied another country they won against in a war.

They where also one of the main driving force behind the Anglo-Chinese War (see Opium wars).

You probably got the top point on the subject of "Compare the youtube with X, What about youtube they are Y" award with this one in the thread. There are quite a few of them with a spectrum of insanity, but this one is just hilarious.

For one, YouTube does not have a private army.

Guidelines | FAQ | Support | API | Security | Lists | Bookmarklet | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact