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Meh. It wouldn't surprise me if these trials are being run by the makers of Remdesivir or some other drug, and they're purposely killing folks to make their treatment look more effective. It's a pretty common tactic in the pharma industry for drug makers to do trials with enormous doses of their competitors products to make them look more dangerous by comparison, and given that this whole thing has turned into a multi-billion dollar cash grab I would assume that that's what's happening here unless proven otherwise.

It's the same thing with famatodine, where someone observed that folks taking it for heartburn have a lower risk of death. So rather than doing an RCT with giving folks 10mg orally (a normal dose), someone started doing an RCT with like 140mg injected.

Just thinking about it logically, why would you ever give someone a drug that ostensibly works by blocking viral replication when they've already had the virus for multiple weeks? It makes zero sense, which tells you there is something shady going on.




Fuck you are right, remember just reading that Gilead gave some 250K to the author of one of the studies against HCQ. IF that is not a conflict of interest then what is?


Nice, if you can find the source I'd love to see that.

edit: I'm assuming this: https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/health-care/item/35547...


Yeah, not exactly that one but similar. A thing that this one misses is that the author of the study did not do a proper disclosure of the conflict of interest.

The thing is it's pretty evident it works and also why many governments and leaders around the world are taking it as prophylaxes. Anecdotally (doctors in the family), it is being used in private hospitals in my country quite successfully.


Particularly in the case of a 1950s drug that has been consumed by millions of people, and which as far as I know was available without prescription until covid. It’s like saying aspirin is dangerous. Sure. At a certain dosage.


Quinine-based drugs are no small thing. They are neurotoxic even at low dosages, for example (the somewhat-related antimalaric drug mefloquine very often causes really bad nightmares, at the very low prophylactic dosage, and it has a long half life so they persist even a few weeks after you've stopped taking it).


We are talking about HCQ. Perhaps its use is strange in the US, but in India its commonly prescribed for malaria (and also lupus, arthritis). My entire extended family (ex-military) has taken HCQ at one point of time or another. No ill-effects for millions of people. Heavy dosages should be avoided of-course.


Exactly. And the dosage being given for COVID-19 patients is comparable to the dosage given for patients with chronic conditions such as lupus, only the COVID-19 patients are given the drug for something like a week, while the chronic patients are given the drug indefinitely.

Meanwhile, drugs like benzodiazepines are basically just dumped on a largely unwitting populace with the tacit blessing of these very same people who are fretting about hydroxychloroquine. There is more than simply the disinterested caution of science going on here.


Shh, don't mention the opiate / benzo crisis. We know this disproportionately affects Middle America, and therefore is not something we can bring up as a serious topic of conversation.


To be honest, dosage varies a lot across countries. The trials in Brazil gave very high dosage, which can probably explain the deaths from cardiotoxicity there.


The risk of treating patients with pain-reducing levels of ASA (aspirin) is actually a significant issue, and it's not hard to find papers covering this issue, and reporting data on it. It's usually in older populations who are more likely to be in pain and also more likely to die from a stomach bleed.


Yeah. But like every drug in the world has contraindications. By this standard all drugs are dangerous and should be banned from trials.


I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were suggesting we should give drugs to people regardless of the fact that the randomized controlled trials say that the drug doesn't provide any significant benefit. Giving widespread ASA to a population that wouldn't benefit from it would be a bad idea.


Well I am personally in favour of doing randomized control trials, not to cancel them based on what appear to be a weak statistical analysis. There was an argument to not wait at the peak of the epidemic rather than not treating (and some of these trials are only starting, which baffles me). But these trials should have been done from the outset.

Doctors in the heat of the moment cannot wait for a randomized trial. They started keeping patients off intrusive ventilators without doing a randomized trial, based on annecdotal evidence.

But these trials still need to happen.


According to most of the countries mentioned in the article, trials of HCQ are still going on. The WHO put its trial on pause. Other countries are just stopping the use of HCQ outside of approved trials.


I wish it would be the case but for instance in France the drug authority seems to be determined to stop all trials [1]

[1] https://www.midilibre.fr/2020/05/26/coronavirus-lagence-du-m...


Aspirin can be deadly if used to treat patients with an hemorrhage. Likewise, treating patients that are infected by a virus is not like preventing malaria in heathy people might to be exposed to a deadly virus like malaria, especially when most deaths are from older people which might be more sensitive to side effects.


Maybe this is pedantic, but malaria isn't caused by a virus. It's caused by a single-celled group of eukaryots called Plasmodium.


This is not the only sabotaged study being done on HCQ.

As I pointed out on Twitter over a month ago, the bill gates foundation was doing a study on HCQ for preventing covid19.

The "inert" placebo they decided to use in the control group? VITAMIN C.

That's right, one of the most potent and documented immune boosters is now being assumed to be "inert".

https://depts.washington.edu/covid19pep/about/




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