It'd be nice to see technical work spread away from the hotspots and across America. Concentrating it in a few places makes for a surprisingly miserable existence.
We even had factories here, but they were too expensive to run. It's cheaper to ship them from overseas.
After 30 years of increasing imports when government subsidies ended so did local manufacturing. Most cars sold in the country are now built in Thailand, South Africa, Japan, Europe and increasingly the USA - without any kind of huge price jump over locally produced vehicles.
But Tesla is not at that stage: it was able to create a new factory in China in half a year, and already has a strong brand recognition, so California has its pros and cons.
Tesla building HQ in Silicon Valley enabled it to get types of people he never would have otherwise. Few are leaving Google to go to GM, for example.
I just hope the folks I know for example in Texas are able to stay safe.
People under 50, including kids, may not die in high numbers but they can still make others sick.
The first has been achieved - with a small margin in NYC, but far larger margins elsewhere.
The second will take another year at the most optimistic.
The third would also take a year+ at current lockdown effectiveness levels - but I'd expect mass disobedience before then.
* * *
And that is why I'd prefer to have lockdowns lifted for lower-risk populations. Yes, people in contact with the old or at-risk should stay in lockdown - but that does not mean that college students, or young families, or a variety of other groups should not return to normal. The more people that are infected, the lower effective r_0 drops (this is how herd immunity works) and the sooner the world can be made safe for at-risk populations.
The fact that this might also let the US avoid an economic downturn that makes the Great Depression look merciful is also a major plus. (Current US unemployment is estimated at around 20% - the Great Depression peaked around 25%)
(Readers don't realize what a big ask this is because the articles carefully don't mention this - most people are left with the false impression that it's just doing what other countries have already managed, and that the only reason the US isn't doing this is because the leadership is incompetent or even deliberately covering up the number of cases.)
I was surprised how at quickly my local health authority got to this point. A couple months ago, they had flat-out stated that it would be impossible for the foreseeable future, but cold/flu symptoms have decreased over a regular year by an order of magnitude, they expanded testing to everyone with any symptoms a couple weeks ago, and even with carpet bombing contacts in outbreak locations they're still only running testing at about half capacity.
There's already examples. Epic will pay you top tech level salaries in the middle of nowhere, where you can live like a king. Superstars seem to be staying put.
You mean how a lot of people do to move to SV in the first place?
For a lot of people living in the Bay Area is kinda like living in the middle of nowhere. You have to drive for over an hour, often much more if the highways are jammed, simply to reach the nearest actual city. It appears Epic is based in Verona, Wisconsin, which is about 2hr 20 mins from Chicago. So a bit further out for sure, but not so radically different that it'd completely change your life, I guess.
Of course if you live in SF and then commute to work, it's different, but that's a pretty miserable experience.
,,Middle of nowhere'' is a bad place anyways, I'm sure that there are more fun places than Mountain View for young guys to live their single life or to buy their dream family house.
I mean, if you're going for "excentric billionaire", then GO for it!
In theory, companies there would offer enough compensation to make it at least a wash with candidates' current situation, but in my experience, they don't.
Things that suck in Bay Area:
1) People. I don't like to hang with AI engineers and arrogant people. Humbleness is hard to come by here. This is usually brought up as a positive, I couldn't disagree more.
2) Homelessness - Some areas feel like it's Somalia
3) Unkept, unmaintained infrastructure - Pretty much pot holes everywhere, roads ruin tyres and rip apart suspension systems, even if a road is recently built, it has major quality issues. Infrastructure in Bay area is below par that of places like China, Korea, Japan, EU, Switzerland, England, and pretty much any developed country and many parts of the US. Texas has the best roads IMO. I've been to all these places and infrastructure (Alameda county) just reeks of awful people running this place, lack of care for quality and attention to detail, and perhaps mismanagement of funds.
3) Housing - self explanatory
4) Bang for the buck - Cost of living does not match the standard of living. People automatically assume that cost living is proportional to the quality of living. Not even close in the bay area.
5) Micro-analysis of Food culture: I cannot go out and hang with people without someone trying to analyze between 4.8 and 4.9 stars on Yelp. You forgot the purpose of us getting together. This probably exists everywhere in major cities, not just the Bay area.
6) Transit - sucks, expensive and unmaintained. Rampant theft on BART, you generally feel unsafe.
7) Traffic - before this pandemic, it was difficult to go anywhere without taking 3 hours off.
8) Crime - I've had my car broken into 4 times (the city) in the course of 8 months.
9) Way too many laws - Regulation in California will cut you by thousand cuts. Wanna grab a lot and build your own house? Good luck with 18,000 pages of law that govern what you can and cannot do with your land. This is the same in Oregon and Washington state.
10) Wanna form an LLC? $800/year. Why!? What costs are involved in providing a registration for a company? It is $50 in some states, free in many other states.
11) Taxes - I am a centrist and IMO california has way too many taxes (count) and way too much (amount) of your income, property, tolls, estate, utilities, etc. I am fine with high taxes if that results in a better quality of life, but I feel like I am robbed off.
12) Extreme sensitivity towards race, gender, minorities, etc. Shops like this should not exist: https://www.shopwomenmade.com/ - Yep, this is in Berkeley. This is a hot topic but IMO ultra liberalism is playing into their own agenda.
13) Intolerence to anything but extreme left in politics. Oh god, you're doing exactly what extreme right is doing - not listening to other views.
Why the hell am I here? I am looking to get out of the bay area and never return, even for pleasure. SF Bay Area is one of the worst places to live IMO having lived in half a dozen cities in the US and expat in Asia.
Advice to entrepreneurs in the bay area: Find a place in other parts of California, it's a gorgeous state with many cheap cities - perhaps you can help build those small cities into better communities. If Magic Leap can form a 3000 people tech HQ in Ft. Lauderdale in Florida, I am sure you can attract talent in Monterrey, Redding, Bakersfield, etc.
I do love the state, I think that outside of San Fransisco most Californians are pretty laid back. But it bothers new how often we seem to high road the other states for the sake of spite these days.
Yes, there's a staggering number of people in the Bay Area who think they're gods gift yet have essentially average intelligence, they confuse understanding code with understanding the world.
At the same time there are many humble people, ambitious yet realistic people and extremely skilled people in the Valley. It's the centre of the tech world for a good reason.
For some years I worked for Google out of Switzerland. For me and many other people this was the perfect balance. Working for Americans, especially the sort that make companies in SV, was an inspiring experience. The can-do, "what hard thing shall we tackle next" attitude is one that's frankly difficult to find elsewhere. They'd just throw themselves into a challenge without even stopping to think about what could go wrong; the sunshine of the state was like the sunshine in their minds. Not surprisingly there are a lot of failed and zombie startups in the Valley as a result, but that's still better than in most places where there just aren't any at all.
On the other hand, I was quite satisfied with the much higher quality of life in the Swiss office. You could walk out of the door at the end of the day and stroll in a few minutes to a beautiful lake with an actual mountain view, go for a swim, barbecue with friends in a well maintained public park, dry off, utilise the spotlessly clean and free public toilets, and within a few minutes walk be in the city centre in bars and restaurants. Crime was virtually non-existent thanks to the fast response times of the police, who were nonetheless invariably friendly and hands off, so people would routinely just leave all their stuff on the shore when going for a swim without worrying about it. I once forgot my coat in a bar and then failed to pick it up for a week, when I went back it was still there, hanging right where I left it.
I wouldn't want to live in the Valley but I'm always happy to work with people who do.
Amazingly good insight. I originally started working for a Bay Area company exactly because companies elsewhere have a tendency to shrug their shoulders and give up without trying, when faced with difficult problems. It's maddening. Half the battle is thinking you can beat a problem - if you give up before trying, you've already lost.
I'm also not exactly smitten with the area, but the attitude is unbeatable and in part why SV will continue to lead the world.
The bay area has always been a hotspot for radical activism.
I lived in CA for awhile and couldn’t take it, so I left.
Tesla would have gone bankrupt like 10 years ago. I mean just last quarter Tesla barely made a "profit" and it was due to selling credits to other auto-makers and posting incredibly suspicious financials (e.g. doubling the number of factories while posting no change in their OpEx).
For someone who has built all of his companies thanks to government funding, Elon sure has been biting at the hand that feeds him.
But since the Bay Area practically bans new construction of housing and infrastructure, you get the overcrowding, stress, and income disparity instead.
Being rich, I can afford the regulations. A new immigrant? Not so much. And if my poorer immigrant competition starts climbing up the ladder by ignoring the regulations, I can report them and have them shut down.
How low of an IFR would it take before you accepted that exposure? Would incidentally exposing them to the common cold be ok?
It's not the infections that matter - it's the deaths. And, with Tesla's 10k factory workers and the assumption that they're heathy people between 20 and 60, you'd see somewhere between 1 and 50 deaths. (Assuming that Italy's health care worker CFR is representative) Is this worth it? I don't know. But there's a point where it would be.
> How low of an IFR would it take before you accepted that exposure?
If we lived in a sane world that valued EVERY individual human life above the self-serving dreams of an egotistical, arrogant sociopath, the answer would be zero.
> Would incidentally exposing them to the common cold be ok?
Such a question screams for a sarcastic answer: in case you haven’t noticed, Covid-19 is not the common cold.
I was unaware that Tesla workers were slaves. Unless they aren't - in which case they would have the option to not return yet.
> If we lived in a sane world that valued EVERY individual human life above the self-serving dreams of an egotistical, arrogant sociopath, the answer would be zero.
Well, factories kill people in accidents. Not often, but it happens. Does that mean we can never reopen factories, even without disease?
> Such a question screams for a sarcastic answer: in case you haven’t noticed, Covid-19 is not the common cold.
No, it isn't. But this is a thought experiment - and an example of orgs willingly exposing masses of people to a disease.
Is it really bad to have unregulated food? Is it really bad to have regulated legal service? Unregulated medicine? The poor might have a difference of opinion on the flexible trade between money and life.
Frankly, it's hard to fathom how any auto production line would want to make it's home in the Bay. Halfway to Sacramento, sure. But Freemont? I don't understand.
Occam's Razor, is there a giant media conspiracy against a single company (whose continued existence creates content for their company) or workers rights are being infringed upon for profit.
> Occam's Razor, is there a giant media conspiracy against a single company (whose continued existence creates content for their company) or workers rights are being infringed upon for profit.
I'd say Occam's Razor says that a company making headlines makes more money for those companies so any kind of dirt that can be found will be found no matter how insignificant.
California's OSHA is definitely more strict and inclined to slap fines than other OSHAs.
But now the Dems have a supermajority in the legislature and a democratic governor so there is no longer a check on the wackiest policies.
Plus the fact that we’ve always had state propositions that come direct from the people, a system now being efficiently abused by special interests. The number of ridiculous propositions has gone way up, and most people vote just based on the title.
It’ll be interesting to see if there is a course correction in the next few elections.
I'm not exactly sure I'd call Baker a Republican -- he's further left than many Democrats. He is apparently what they call a RINO (Republican In Name Only).
Like CA, Mass. also has a super-majority of Democrats at the state level, in fact there are many state & local offices that don't even have more than 1 candidate running for them.
Though I agree, the best thing to do if you disagree with the policies is to walk out, and it will probably help with the craziness (and not only with the governmental craziness)
Well, no state has been stronger on this issue than California, who sets fuel efficiency goals that are the most stringent. The same cannot be said of Texas and Nevada; if anything the opposite is true. These are states where people take pride in driving big gas guzzling trucks and the government supports them in that.
Everyone loves to complain about how restrictive CA is, but what about when the substance lines up with what one supposedly believes? Why would Musk want Tesla to support Texas over CA? That seems backward unless his goal is the success of Tesla as a business, rather than progress against global warming.
How is this anything but a non-sequitor? CA law only covers cars sold in the state, not produced. How does moving to a state that may be more favorable to the business for other reasons (tax purposes, operating during the pandemic, etc) change anything in that regard?
That said, if you're going to build a company in the American capitalism model where you inevitably interface with different layers of government, you probably would want to do it where those governments align best with your industry. If your goal is to build a car, MI is probably your best bet. If your goal is to solve fuel efficiency or an environmental problem, CA is one of the better places to be in; though maybe not the best. If your goal is to get people back to work ASAP, you'd want to go to a state with few(er) worker protections.
I think it's clear where Musk's motivations lie, but I'm sure others are unconvinced.
Ha ha. Yes it's due to "worker protections" that workers at Amazon/Whole Foods can sell flowers but workers at a local florist can't.
Stereotypes like this are ridiculous.
Do these people exist in those states? Absolutely.
Do they also exist in California too? Definitely.
This type of blindness is so prevalent in California it's staggering. I had a friend who was (rightly) furious about North Carolina's homophobic legislation and declared "That kind of thing would never happen in California."
We stood there blankly looking at each other for a moment until I mentioned "But California passed Prop 8."
Of course he had a rationale. But how quickly we are to see the exception or nuance for "us" but never for "them."
We need to remember the plural of annedoate is not data.
If he can get Texas enlisted on the team to fight global climate change, that is a huge win. Clearly that's not assured, but a gigafactory and an HQ would not hurt.
With California, he's already mostly preaching to the choir.
Is Tesla can continues to increase sales like they did for almost a decade, then we have a good chance to completely switch the transportation industry from fossil fuel to renewable energy. If Tesla believe they would achieve this faster from TX than CA, then the move is justified because it better serves the mission of the company ("accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy"), not for business success. CA can perfectly continue to push for the energy transition, with or without Tesla.
Tesla doesn’t care about CA, Tesla wants to win and will strategize to do so.
The company is no longer a rogue CA carmaker, it’s a mainstream brand.
"Supporting" one state or another is irrelevant to that goal.
I believe him because he's been right a ton of times and Dr. Fauci has been wrong from the beginning:
Like I said in my comment, listen to what he actually says in the podcast before making judgement. He specifically says he knows a lot of people who got infected but Tesla had 0 deaths in China from 8000 employees and he knows it because he does payroll.
> Tesla is filing a lawsuit against Alameda County immediately. The unelected & ignorant “Interim Health Officer” of Alameda is acting contrary to the Governor, the President, our Constitutional freedoms & just plain common sense!
> Frankly, this is the final straw. Tesla will now move its HQ and future programs to Texas/Nevada immediately. If we even retain Fremont manufacturing activity at all, it will be dependen on how Tesla is treated in the future. Tesla is the last carmaker left in CA.
I love how he says "immediately" and "Texas/Nevada" right next to each other. So he's moving right now... except that he didn't decide where?
The chutzpah to call that highly credentialed health official ignorant after making such a claim that was counter to what essentially every epidemiologist in the world was predicting for the USA at the time. I'm seeing some pretty interesting similarities between how Musk is communicating and treating people, and a certain other individual..
We shouldn't be cutting people slack for behaving like this; whoever they are.
Exactly! Tesla knows far more about what needs to be done to be safe through our Tesla China factory experience than an (unelected) interim junior official in Alameda County.
But to say that they cannot leave their house, and they will be arrested if they do, this is fascist. This is not democratic. This is not freedom. Give people back their goddamn freedom.
Freer economically as long as the Party wants you to be free. Otherwise they'll bankrupt you overnight.
I am incredibly curious to see how the Tesla Shanghai project plays out, given some of the extremely favourable clauses that China got out of Musk. I would bet that the factory is not really Tesla's any more within 5 years, and that Tesla Shanghai begins cannibalizing Tesla Proper's sales this year.
For reference: money earned by Tesla Shanghai cannot leave China, so every sale they make abroad is money that will be in China for a long while.
All the polls I’ve seen show that less than 20% of people believe everything is safe. The only ‘open up now’ constituency in America (besides political cranks) is people who wouldn’t have to expose themselves to the virus if they had to go back to work or send their kids to school tomorrow.
I know I do. Not everyone believes the overreaction is justified.
> San Joaquin County, right next door to Alameda, has been sensible & reasonable, whereas Alameda has been irrational & detached from reality. Our castings foundry and other faculties in San Joaquin have been working 24/7 this entire time with no ill effects. Same with Giga Nevada.
GM is also restarting operations.
It's clear his current instincts, or at least under certain mental states prone to shifting, is that Tesla knows better than Alameda County. Who are they to doubt Tesla's amazing back-to-work plan that worked in China?! Except Musk and Tesla are not in charge of public health. They are not elected officials that are on the line for ensuring a Tesla outbreak doesn't spread to the rest of the county/public.
It takes time to for the government to vet plans and coordinate this stuff. The tweet was unnecessary.
> Nothing in this Order shall be construed to limit the existing authority of local health officers to establish and implement public health measures within their respective jurisdictions that are more restrictive than, or that otherwise exist in addition to, the public health measures imposed on a statewide basis pursuant to the statewide directives of the State Public Health Officer.
There is literally no problem other than Musk is clearly lying about Tesla's liquidity and is desperate enough that he needs to produce cars this week. I mean he claims there was $8 BB in cash but is getting loans from China and refusing to pay rents. Something doesn't add up.
I'm super curious how this unfolds, especially if he thinks California is up and is now opening a factory in Germany. The meltdown's we'll get from his efforts in Germany are going to be just pure insanity.
Probably not. He's not chairman of the board. Robyn M. Denholm is. The board has some strong figures on it, including Larry Ellison and James Murdoch.
2) He's using Twitter a little bit like Trump - saying somewhat inflammatory things, tapping into an emotional vein, possibly garnering support from fanboys, making noise.
Twitter it seems, is a place where statements don't have to be fully true or real. It's like an 'emotional landscape' where people can push the buttons of the masses and get away with it.
A lot of people in the investor class right now are upset their stocks are falling, they see the pandemic is not as bad as predicted and they want everyone back to work. Many working people feel similarly. But a larger group of people, especially those in difficult conditions, are rightly afraid; the 'meatpacking plants' in various places have had huge covid outbreaks and some deaths, in Canada it's been a serious source of outbreak. There's no reason to believe it won't be the same anywhere else.
But Elon is missing something in his rants: if and when the factory does startup, there will be a COVID outbreak on some level and there is a very high chance that a Tesla employee somewhere, somehow will die from COVID. Now it may not be 'his fault' but it won't matter.
If Elon is seeing as being unsympathetic and not concerned about his staff - and - someone dies from Covid (one way or another, possibly not even really related to his policy) - then it could blow up and backfire on him in an existential way.
CNN: "Elon Musk forces people back to work; 2 dead from Covid"
- is the kind of stain that does not come off.
Elon needs to spend a lot more time publicly demonstrating empathy and showing materially how he is working protecting his workers.
I'm not sure this is entirely true - stocks are worth more than they were last June, way before this crisis started and have trended up over the past month. Maybe this will still be true in 6 months or a year, maybe not - its far too early to say. If anything, it seems the "investor class" thinks there are bargains to be had right now.
But culturally, the business world has an innate paternalistic industriousness. They want to 'get things moving' on a much deeper level.
Musk is saying what most business leaders are thinking, right or wrong.
I don't know if Wall Street was right yet, but that was its verdict.
Now, it's true that my IRA is down a little, but I'm not really "the investor class".
You say "very few had the wherewithal to time it right", but I'd question that, because all it took, in principle, was doing nothing. Not possible for everyone who's unemployed, for instance, but not something that takes large amounts of brains or capital.
Yeah, this just isnt true. Every dollar put into the market a year ago has increased in value (broadly speaking, individual investments obviously vary). Being "down from the peak" doesnt matter, what matters is where you are compared to cash (aka, not investing).
Investors almost certainly knew what they were signing up for, so, "yes" would be the answer.
How Tesla ends is not yet written, but even enterprises with steady, conservative hands on the reins have sputtered.
Thought with Elon, who knows :)
after being asked whether he writes his own tweets: "I'm the only
author, so, love or hate it, that's me. I've learned some lessons
though, such as tweeting on Ambien isn't wise." 
This also should have been released in an 8-K.
At this point the SEC may as well cease to exist because it has shown itself to be utterly spineless.
Didn't mean it as one, I'm no Musk apologizer. His erratic behavior is terrible for the company and certainly discourages me from holding TSLA stock much longer than a few hours at a time during positive earnings calls. Presumably I'm not the only one who feels that way.
It'd be better too if power didn't concentrate in a few individuals who can't control their twitter accounts.
2. If he really does do this, I would assume that he would move into the Reno/Carson City area because that's where the factory is. If this is the case, then he really needs to throw his weight around to loosen restrictions on building new residential housing in the area, whether than takes the form of fewer parking spaces per building, reducing the amount of setbacks, or both. Both rent and housing are very expensive there.
Also every time I hear about a company leaving California, it makes me happy, and I work in California.
That won’t happen, though. I expect that more and more Tesla manufacturing will go offshore to China. Especially battery manufacturing.
I'm assuming downvotes and users not interested in the topic but still seems extreme to me.
He has built a $150 billion company from the ground up, is 5-7 years ahead of his competitors, in a sector where it is nearly impossible to survive.
The company has dramatically accelerated the shift to electric vehicles.
You don't like him? Don't follow him on twitter or buy the stock or products. Otherwise, he seems not to dissimilar from most neuro-atypical founders I know
That's a bit of a stretch.
The company was founded by other folks (Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning) in 2003, he invested in 2004, joined the board of directors, ousted the CEO in 2007, and was then only able to refer to himself as a cofounder after settling a lawsuit.
Musk didn't build anything "from the ground up," he took control of a company that already existed and grew it into something larger - still admirable, but let's not rewrite history. Musk didn't create Tesla and he wasn't one of the original cofounders.
The first roadster shipped in 2008. The first Model S in 2012.
If you're saying Tesla would exist let alone be where it is without Elon, we're living in different realities. They would have never shipped a single vehicle without him.
However, I would experience a great deal of schadenfreude at his downfall at this point, because he's become one of those larger-than-life people who think they are entitled to destroy anyone who gets in his way. It could be that the local official that he's fighting with has some faults, has made some mistakes. But she represents functioning civil society to me and he represents all the powerful people that are heedlessly trying to destroy it.
Yes, Elon Musk did all this, not the 48000 some employees at Tesla, not the chemical engineers, not the mechanical engineers, not the assembly line workers, not the software engineers. It was all Elon. I mean, come on, when does the absurdity end? Tesla will be fine without Elon, and probably better off as he becomes more unhinged.
That is a real problem, and it could risk him being sent to jail, fined billions, or removed from the executive position.
Yeah, but what has he done lately? Also, his tweets.
Um... He won a contract to carry astronauts to the moon?
Are we talking about Tesla? Because Elon didn't fund Telsa.
The man is a certified loon. From falsely claiming the rescue diver that helped free the people from the cave in Thailand a "child rapist" to saying he was taking Tesla private as some insane joke because, well, $420 everyone! Get it? Marijuana! 420! Do you get it? SEC wasn't laughing. I'm sure they aren't amused by his recent tweet that TSLA is overpriced. The guy has firsthand knowledge and is as insider as can possibly be and is carelessly tweeting that the investment is too high. If this isn't ringing some major alarm bells, nothing will. And I'll believe Tesla leaves California when I see it.
Call me old fashioned, but I still believe the CEO of a public company has a fiduciary responsibility to the company's investors. Crazy, right?
I'd personally consider Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana, or Ontario; they're much more supportive of the auto industry - and ample manufacturing and tooling expertise resides there.
With lots of soon to be idled property next to Warm Springs BART & near the Dumbarton, 237, 580, 680; time to build more housing.
I'll believe it when I see it happen.
How anyone take this guy seriously? Look at the things his followers on twitter write. It sounds like a cult.
He once seemed to be the savoir of humanity but these days he just seems like the typical angry CEO looking to manipulate things to his advantage.
Moving out of a state that won't let you run your business seems like a very savvy move for a person whose job is running a business and growing it as quickly as possible (which he would say is in order to accelerate the shift to a sustainable energy future, which you can agree with or not)
I'm genuinely confused by the animosity
To me, it's because this stinks in the same way as Bezos playing cities off each other to extract concessions. He's even asking fans and shareholders to sue the county and reach out to politicians. A county has made a decision, presumably in good faith, in the interest of public health. You don't have to agree with their decision, but throwing your weight around as a billionaire to spite them for it is a bad look.
Edit: fixed reference link (thanks mft_).
Um, the tweet you referenced reads "Please voice your disagreement as strongly as possible with
Isn't this just asking people to, you know, contact their local politicians and voice their opinion? Like, how individual citizens with an opinion can do? There's nothing about suing anyone?
Shareholder: [...] can shareholders file a class action lawsuit? [...]
Elon: Absolutely, please do! You should be allowed to recoup damages from the county.
I guess it's a matter of semantics. If you ask if I want a coffee and I say "yes please", did I ask for coffee? I would say the answer is "yes", but I could understand a hyperliteral argument for "no".
This can be debated, right? I'm not sure what's the problem with the management of a company saying they're moving a headquarter because they believe they can better operate elsewhere, or asking other people who feel negatively impacted to consider a legal actions (unless you don't trust the legal system, but that's another matter I guess).
As someone who genuinely appreciates what Elon is striving for and wants all of his projects to succeed, I hope he’ll succeed in building a new project soon in addition to keeping the California factory for reopening later on.
Personally, I don't want to live in a country where unelected officials can unilaterally make decisions that shut down the economy and kill my business and life's work. I'd certainly have a lot to say about it
Same, but I also wouldn't want to live in a county whose officials are afraid to make decisions that are in the best interest of the people's health out of fear of the wrath of a billionaire and his followers.
If he wants to move the plant I have no problem with that, it's the way he's trying to use his position for outsized political pressure that I dislike.
On the other hand I think society should have some safeguards and safety nets in place for once per century events such as a pandemic that shutters the economy. Surely if we had kept a preparation in place since 1918 we would have a much easier time weathering this storm. But instead society forgot all about these things. It wouldn’t have been easy of course given the shortsighted nature of politics.
Airlines and Ford (pinnacles of responsible business operations /s) getting bailed out by the Fed through junk bond liquidity operations? Why not Tesla too?
Arguably, we still want those billionaires to succeed, but we also want taxes paid and workers protected across the board. I don’t think that’s unreasonable, but complex problems and their solutions are hard to discuss at scale because of entrenched interests, sound bites, the twenty four hour news cycle, and people acting in bad faith.
We want taxes paid and workers protected, so we want tax-evading and union-busting billionaires to succeed.
Taxes and worker welfare are two tools we can deploy towards that goal. A company is a voluntary organizational tool, and when run as well as Tesla is, an extremely effective one at accomplishing a goal.
States don’t control the currency, nor have the budgets to backstop large cap firms in economic distress.
How about "...for CEOs to threaten moving their economic operations to places where governments are more hospitable". Still dangerous and toxic?
If the CEO of some 100 person company tweets out "screw you guys I'm moving to Texas", I think that's fine. Even if the state makes changes in response, nobody's going to think that his money alone was the deciding factor.
In this case, him being rich is irrelevant, as he’s not threatening to use his personal wealth.
If you're talking about taxes, that's an awfully entitled phrasing.
And second, the people voted in said local government.
So isn't it going against the spirit of America (and Democracy in general) to threaten elected officials for doing what the people elected them to do?
Like calling an innocent person a pedophile?
The said quote was given to CNN, not something that was said in private.
> He once seemed to be the savoir of humanity but these days he just seems like the typical angry CEO looking to manipulate things to his advantage.
> I can't help but wonder if Musk has had some medical event that is imparing his cognition.
How condescending is this? Is he acting like an angry little man, selfishly concerned for his bottom line and little else? Is he behaving like the stereotypical, upper-class born, billionaire CEO which he is? No, he must be having some kind of medical condition!
Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, he is just... your average billionaire CEO? Father owned an emerald mine, had a "lavish lifestyle" growing up (his words), had enough capital to invest in companies and strike it gold. A mixture of luck and merit.
Maybe, just maybe, he is not Our lord God-Emperor Elon.
Or maybe it’s just for the lolz + fat stacks of mad cheddar.
> false claims about constitutional guarantees of limitless freedom
I don't know that i saw that tweet. Was this referring to first amendment freedom of assembly?
Have you seen his girlfriend? Given her aesthetics and creative output, you should be glad the name can even be expressed in unicode. Musk probably moderated it, if anything.
> tweets manipulating stock prices
The stock price which is now... close to 2x the exaggerated $420 claim? Yeah, maybe he knew something you didn't.
> claims of forsaking possessions
This is for a good reason -- he needs cash to exercise the TSLA options he was just granted. He's stock-rich but cash-poor. The choices are either take on massive debt to exercise them, or free up cash ASAP. This is fine.
Yeah... gonna need a cite here.
> to the flagrant disregard for the health and safety of his employees
He has different risk/reward beliefs than you. If he was working from home while his employees sweated unsafely on the factory line, that's one thing -- but he's also been in the office working beside them the whole time. He cares about what he's trying to do, and his risk/reward function is "fuck it". Did any of his employees honestly expect any less, when they joined?
> He once seemed to be the savoir of humanity
He's doing the same thing he's always done. His belief is that stopping global warming and getting humans off of earth take 100% precedence over anything else. Including, a 0-1% risk of death from disease. The same reason he's pushing to put astronauts in space -- the future is worth taking risks for.
If believed in Musk in the good times, you should have understood that he'd hold the same principles in the bad times. It's the rest of the world that blinked, not Elon.
That.. doesn't mean it wasn't stock manipulation. Its not really about the stock price, its about whether he caused people to buy or sell based on false claims or information.
> He has different risk/reward beliefs than you. If he was working from home while his employees sweated unsafely on the factory line, that's one thing -- but he's also been in the office working beside them the whole time. He cares about what he's trying to do, and his risk/reward function is "fuck it".
That doesn't make it ok, nor does it mean his employees don't feel pressured to go against their own risk/reward beliefs. There have been plenty of stories of Musk flippantly firing people for not "working hard enough". You might say well people who work there have other options and could choose to work elsewhere, but is it really a real choice if the person otherwise believes strongly in the mission, or is blinded by Musk's personal brand, or otherwise loves their job, or is worried about the economy due to pandemic. There are plenty of reasons why someone might feel pressured to work even if they do not feel its safe. The risk/reward function for a billionaire is not the same as for the average person working for him. Just because he thinks "fuck it" doesn't make it ok to put his employees at risk.
Musk's contribution to the name of his kid is "A-12", Though apparently neither parent can actually say this poor kid's name.
> Yeah, maybe he knew something you didn't
You understand that this type of stock manipulation is illegal right? As a result of prior tweets, Musk is now required (by the SEC and with agreement by Musk and his legal team in April) to have Tesla pre-approve his tweets related to it. Yet despite this, he continues to tweet his opinions about the stock price. Opinions clearly designed to and that have manipulated the price of the stock.
> he needs cash to exercise the TSLA options
Musk actually stated that he is selling his possessions and explicitly clarified that he does not need cash but because "possessions just weigh you down". Though to be fair, when pressed by the courts to potentially pay for something his response is typically that he is broke. I would love to tell my kid's college that we are "broke" as well because our stock portfolio and investments should not be considered liquid assets.
> Yeah... gonna need a cite here.
Musk has repeatedly referred to "shelter in place" requests/orders as fascist forcible imprisonment, further stating that these orders are unconstitutional.
Here is a direct quote:
"... the shelter-in-place, and frankly I would call it forcibly imprisoning people in their homes against all their constitutional rights..."
Has anyone actually been arrested in the USA for leaving their home? Not that I am aware of. These orders/requests are certainly not any kind of "forced imprisonment"!
Constitutionally, like most amendments, rights granted by the first are not limitless. Every person should reasonably understand that. If you believe (as Musk apparently does) that the Constitution grants liberties without limits, please check case law.
Further, the federal government has delegated the authority to quarantine explicitly to the states indicating that there is clearly no constitutional guarantee of "freedom from quarantine". A state by state summary can be found here: https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/state-quarantine-and-is...
When you talk about Musk having different risk/reward beliefs that is clear. The safety record at Tesla generally compares poorly with other manufacturers. Nissan and Toyota plants cited in a Forbes article in March 2019 combined for 9 safety violations while the Tesla plant had 54. His demands that works continue despite orders from the government to cease out of public health concerns shows that his priority is money not Americans. Abuse is abuse and never excusable under the premise that employees should have known what they were signing up for. It does not matter if Musk is passionate about the results. CEOs tend to be passionate about the results, particularly when they like to tweet about them.
I did not even bother to mention "The pedo guy fiasco", his "C-PAP respirator" solution, or his live interview while smoking weed.
These are the behaviors of a 70s era rock star, not those of the CEO of a multi-billion dollar manufacturing empire. I personally believe Musk has been acting increasingly erratic for months.
I don't know what is going on, but I think he should take a break from Twitter.
In hindsight pretty impressive he ever pulled the wool over anyone’s eyes.
That said I wouldn't rule out a medical event :)
Also, if you piss off The Powers That Be enough, it doesn't end well for you.