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Ask HN: Who has been laid off?
391 points by etxm 53 days ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 320 comments
There is a monthly “Who is hiring” post, but I thought it might be helpful to have a laid off post with unemployment rates rising.

Share your experience and what you’re looking for.

I woke up today with a nice surprise from HR. I got laid off. It was the most impersonal and robotic email I received.

20 minutes later all my accounts got disabled, not a chance to even say farewell to my nice co-workers.

It sucks. I don't have a ton of savings. Luckily my car is paid off, and I only have student loans left.

I was very tempted to inflate my lifestyle after I got a big raise.

I didn't do it, otherwise i'd be in a world of shit.

At least I can survive for a couple month or so.

Stay strong people

I'm not sure if you are in the US, but if you are apply for unemployment and apply now. The sooner you do it the longer your savings will last. And having gone through this before, you need to cut spending to the bone. Beyond not going out to eat since that is handled, but see if you can reduce your car insurance, drop online recurring services, etc.

That's a great advice.

Yes I am in the US.I will start that application right now.

I panic paid off my car insurance just in case things get worse. I'll shop for a cheaper phone plan.

Gym memberships, online streaming and frivolous stuff will go.

Capitalism for the win.

Before you cut everything, keep in mind that you're still a human being and have psychological needs. If that streaming service brings you hours of joy, it might be cheaper to keep it than the bills for your mental health treatment down the line.

Don't just cut everything out of your life cold turkey. Keep something that brings you joy.

Having just basic internet and youtube can go a long way. So you can get creative during a crisis and learn to work with a bit less to get almost as much.

Even a deck of playing cards can kill plenty of time. Pencils and paper are cheap as well.

There are also a few free services. A lot of them (IMDB tv, tubi, etc) show alot of the same movies and shows, but Pluto TV is actually a very interesting service (features content from Viacom and "clip shows" from networks like CNN)

TV antenna is another option if you don't want to pay for land line internet

You can stream most movies and TV shows online for free if you are willing to spend the time looking for them!

Friendly reminder that there is nothing immoral about "piracy" of digital content. Culture should be free, so if you're not in a position to afford content, don't pay for it.

> Culture should be free,

Tell that to the artists who want to make a living making this stuff.

Reading fiction books is a great way to pass time

HBO is offering free streaming of some shows on hbonow.com No signups or credit card entry. Just click and watch.

The pirate bay is your friend.

pluto.tv and coursera are great free alternatives that can entertain and educate :)

A second for pluto.tv

In many cities Comcast and other ISPs are offering free or reduced internet plans - might be worth looking into. And with the libraries closed your point is valid, you do need some outlets.

FYI your local library may offer free streaming services. Mine does with Kanopy. It’s actually pretty good.

You can also rent/stream videos from the library!

Kanopy if your library offers it. Free streaming service, no ads. Lots of good stuff. Depending on one's tastes it might be better than Netflix—some major movies rotate through, lots of classics, quite a few Criterion movies at any given time. Surprisingly poor on the childrens' entertainment front, but that's what PBS is for.

> I'll shop for a cheaper phone plan.

May not apply to you, but if you're an Xfinity customer, their mobile service is a great value: runs on the Verizon network, and you only pay for data. I switched to it for a few months during a financial crisis I had. It wasn't good for tethering (that gets too expensive vs. a carrier like Verizon), but there were months my bill was only $12 or $24 due to minimal data use (I brought my iPhone from Verizon)

I was using Verizon on a 2 GiB shared plan with my wife. Neither of us use much data, so we always had plenty left over. Switched to Spectrum, which is also on Verizon. It requires Spectrum internet or TV. The bill dropped from about $80 fo the two of us to $28. The new plan is $14 per phone per gig, data is shared. The price includes all taxes. The only extra charges are for international calls or adding another gig.

Tracfone can be slightly cheaper, especially for light users. I’m on their cheapest smartphone plan at $10/month/phone. (You have to buy a year ahead to get this rate, but you can get to $12 with a two month purchase).

They work on the TMobile, Verizon and AT&T network, and you can bring your own unlocked phone.

You should have already put your gym on hold - see if they will freeze it. Presumably you have not been in at least 2 weeks.

Also if you are not driving you can perhaps get a discount for the mileage reduction. You might also just let them know you are laid off.

Your insurance will go up if you're unemployed don't bother telling them mate.

Second this, don't tell them - it will make life a pain in the butt.

You can cancel your online streaming, I got free slot on my accounts :) I'd be happy to share with you.

> I panic paid off my car insurance just in case things get worse.

Still shop as you will get a refund from your current insurer when you cancel. Just because you paid doesn't mean that money is gone!

Millions of people are filing for unemployment right now. Do this first. Like, reasearch over the weekend and get to filing first thing Monday morning.

Capitalism didn't give people an appetite for bat.

Ironically it did, if you are poor you will eat anything to survive imo?

As a result of china's partial capitalism adoption: https://ourworldindata.org/exports/size-poverty-gap-world_v2...

My partner's friend had a large number of people let go during a zoom meeting. It was horribly planned, several people showed up 3-5 minutes late each time they had to say "you're laid off" yet again, etc.

Wow... didn't know there were more but sadly not surprised. I was referring to TripActions https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/25/tripactions-reportedly-lay...

This Zoom (who apparently has some large security issues)? https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/move-fast-roll-your-own-crypto...

Goes to show, companies don't give a damn, and people will start realizing this pretty fast. "Company family" my ass dude

Companies are like individuals. Some companies go far above and beyond to take care of their employees. I am the owner of an agency and converted our goals from profit to maintaining our team without layoffs. We are restructuring a bit to make this happen, but have not laid anyone off. We do not anticipate doing so unless we lose 2/3 of our revenue.

Companies backed by finance guys are psychopaths. They only have one goal - to make as much money as possible. They will sacrifice the people on their teams to get there. This goes for VCs, public companies, private equity, debt finance companies etc.

Guess I'm lucky to be working on military software, avoiding lots of bullsiht and probably no layoffs here. I hope company "culture" and "family" crap that most companies sell will die off with them.

I remember how grateful I was when I received a 25% pay cut after the dot-com bubble burst and tried to take the small consultancy I worked for with it. Not everyone made it, there were some layoffs, but all survivors got a cut in pay.

You can stop your student loans completely. I went a very long time without paying them when I was unemployed.

I believe if the loans are non-stafford interest accrues.

I had to pause my repayments this month because of job-hunt.

They dropped the interest rate to 0% on all Federal student loans. So you won't accrue interest while in deferment right now.

Unfortunately a lot of student loan debt is not in federal loans.

I just checked, they put it on a 0% interest until further notice. What a relief! You should have seen my severance package lol, peanuts.

Just been put on furlough with likely redundancy at the end of the national lockdown period. Absolutely devastated. My job was hard and the pace relentless but the work was extremely stimulating and my colleagues were absolutely fantastic people.

(It was also a Haskell gig, which is a real rarity.)

Right now I'm just licking my wounds and waiting for the lockdown to end. I'm not sure if it makes sense to start a new job right now - the UK furlough scheme is essentially guaranteed income until June. Starting a new job would waive that, so unless you're actually losing money on furlough I think it's a bit unwise to jump companies.

I'm sorry to hear that dude.

Haskell is a demanding language, so you're almost certainly a pretty senior dev. If so, consider volunteering to help organizations during the downtime. Worst case, if you can't get that dream gig back it will certainly make your resume stand out when you're looking for your next thing. Best of luck.

Where can people volunteer with tech skills? Is there a demand for it?

While not what you meant, if people with coding skills have free time, it is greatly appreciated if they contribute to open source projects that are widely used. A lot of OSS are critical components in many systems we rely on daily, your contributions can have more value than you can even imagine.

It would be great if all devs could keep this in mind, but especially the ones that are about to get some time off (if life does not get too stressful for you).


This is aimed at scientists, but my wife is on the list and tells me that they are looking for UX designers and software developers.

Any idea what kinds of software development skills they're looking for?

I guess if they're also looking for UX designers, they aren't looking for just data analysis code?

I don't have much information. I was told frontend and backend.

Edit: given the subject matter, I imagine there is demand for data analysis expertise, but that is my own speculation.

New York has a tech response team that you can volunteer with to help out: https://www.ny.gov/programs/new-york-state-covid-19-technolo...

See HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22723098

Also, for data-related tasks, there's the DataKind group. Their UK chapter is very active: https://www.datakind.org/chapters/datakind-uk

helpwithcovid.com. I believe there is quite a bit of demand on some of these projects.

It might make sense to look now - at the end of the scheme, there will be a huge flood of people all looking for jobs at the same time.

Hang in there!

What are y'all doing w/ Haskell? Is it regular ol' programming and someone just picked Haskell, or is it a use case where Haskell shines exceptionally well?

Sorry to hear that. And I agree with your conclusion. However, it could be a good time to work on a side project (for no money) if you have any ideas, especially something that might help get another gig after the furlough. Best of luck and stay safe.

I see no reason why you can't start a new job, you can have another job and receive the furlough pay as far as I can tell [1]. This may be in breach of your first employees contract but as long as its a job in a slightly different industry few contracts would prevent you starting a new job.

[1] https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the...

OVO are still hiring and planning growth this year: I'm not sure on the ettiquette of reffering people, but sounds like it might be of interest. Cloud first, lots of flexibility in teams running their own microservices and a preference for functional programming (although Scala is popular, haven't seen Haskell yet in production). https://grnh.se/a2f788601us

I work for a remote company that writes Haskell and might be hiring at the moment. Email me if you're interested and I can share more details :)

edd [at] theoryof [dot] pl

> so unless you're actually losing money on furlough

Also UK and I am losing money as it's 80% up to 2500 pre month if your employer doesn't top it up, so for me that's a large pay cut, that said given the way things are I'm happy to take that cut knowing I'll still have twice what I need to cover the next 3 months before I have to touch my savings.

Whether I'll have a job at the end of whatever the lockdown period ends up been I've no idea, I think most likely I will but we'll have to wait and see, fortunately I'd been saving so I have enough to cover me from June well into next year in my "can access this money right now" account.

Are you still having to work?

No, if your company furloughs you, you legally can't do work for them - the approach is if you work you get full pay.

It sounds like now is a good time to learn a new skill for a few months. It would be unwise to quit now as a new job would not qualify for furloughing and if the economy turns worse you would be let go without any income.

If you are looking for a (relatively short) contract gig involving a Haskell backend that needs to be update please contact me.

Feel the pain. Same situation here, I'll be taking a 50% wage cut, coupled with the uncertainty after the government period if it goes that way on Monday.

Enjoy the time to recuperate and learn.

My job of 9 years ended the last day of February. My plan was to take two weeks off and start looking for another job mid-March.

I've been ready to change jobs, but I find job searches while I have a job frustrating. Each opportunity is a huge investment in time. Honestly, I find it easier to search for a job when I can give it my full and undivided attention.

To make a long story short, I dropped a hint that I was ready to leave voluntarily under the right circumstances, but I didn't anticipate the whole COVID-19 thing happening just as I was starting my job search. I never anticipated that, the exact week that I planned on looking for a job, daycare would close, and everyone else in the industry would join the job search.

So anyway, what am I looking for? Priorities:

0: You can pay me

1: You need someone with almost 20 years development experience

2a: Ideally, I'd like to join an early stage company that has a "bubblegum and duct tape" version of their product on the marketplace, and now needs someone to make it better

2b: Or, I'd like to join a company with demonstrated product-market fit and write the first version of their product

3: I'd like to work with some languages, frameworks, toolkits that I don't have experience with (But otherwise, I have about 18 years experience in C#)

4: I don't really care if it's web, mobile, desktop, full-stack, ect. (But the last 9 years was a desktop product.)


Even though it's not tangible, I just wanted to offer you a ray of hope - if you'd pitched that set of priorities to me at the right time, I would want to give you an interview barely glancing at a resume. The attitude of wanting to solve hard problems and wanting to learn new things too (in my limited experience) leads to the best developers and designers.

Thanks, I appreciate that. (BTW, my LinkedIn is pretty close to my resume.)

The most important thing is: Don't Panic!

What I generally observe in software is that it's super-hard to hire. Now a lot of companies that had difficult-to-fill openings will realize it's now or never: If you can't find someone to fill the role in this economy, you probably have unrealistic expectations. Otherwise, you're going to have plenty of great people walking through your door.

I think that hiring will pick up faster than we anticipate. Pay might be a little less than we want, but it'll be back by the beginning of 2022.

I’d imagine a decent chunk of early stage companies are really struggling now. Everyone’s wallets just shrunk and they’re holding onto them very dearly.

My heart goes out to all who've lost their job (and those who's health has been impacted by COVID-19).

In case you want to get perspective of the huge US impact of unemployment, see this automated visualization.


Original tweets (from a different Twitter account, belonging to Len Kiefer, an economist Freddie Mac):


And the full blog post with more details:


Curve flattened.. Vertically.

I’d be more interested in seeing the actual unemployment rate presented like this, not the weekly claim numbers.

The civilians labor force is about 165 million people, so we’ve added about ~5% to the unemployment rate in the last two weeks (say 9m increase in claims).

Unemployment peaked at around 25% in the 1930s depression. Rough calcs suggest that could be surpassed: https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2020/march/back-en...

March numbers for overall unemployment rate have been published, but they’re wildly inaccurate because their reference date is mid-month, before most layoffs started.

So we don’t really know yet with precision, but it’s getting close to Great Recession levels.

No, it’s Great Depression levels. You can tell from suppliers.

I just got some equipment quoted with a 2 week delivery guarantee. A month ago there was a 10 week backorder due to Chinese supply chain issues.

The overall market is imploding. Once you see prices drop, that’s it.

Jesus. That kind of off-the-chart result is why log graphs were invented. Your link really hammers the disaster home.

I have been laid off yesterday. I decided three years ago to settle for a 1800€ job in a public institution, thinking that I could relax and escape the stress of freelance or small startups. For reasons too complicated to put into words right now it has been the most stressful years of my life, burnout/depression/loss of social support, that job took everything from me. There was a political/adminstrative change in the structure of that public institution and a clique of women set things up so that one of them - who has no IT skills, no coding skills, just a community manager - could get the budget that supports my role.

That budget was going to end in a year anyway. They just shotgunned me in the knees in the goddam apocalypse and we are talking public sector. Things must be savage in "the real world", right now.

I got a phone call from a local politician telling me that "It's not your performance or your skills or you it's just a budgetary reason. If I see anything that fits your profile I 'll let you know" (like... letting me keep the job I have been doing for three years ?). My job is entirely supported by a higher federal entity, I cost them 0 bucks, and I am there to carry on missions for that entity. It's truly cronyism at its finest.

And total lack of humanity.

All my close coworkers are up in arms and letters to local politicians are being written this week-end.

Today is the first day of a two week vacation (I officially am out in three weeks but the lockdown won't be very productive considering) and I was still in 2 zoom meetings talking about branding and destination management strategies at a small country level and how we can best help and support our sector to rebound later in the year. It's mind blowing. Was sending technical thingie to a coworker at 1 in the morning. They haven't even told my n+1 that I was let go.

Good thing there is a social net in my country, I am looking for to rest, find myself back. It's going to hit me real hard next week when I realize I have no social support in lockdown and all the projects I was working on are just... poof... gone.

edit: not covid19 related

edit2: so, total loss of trust in our representatives/politicians for a while

edit3: sorry for that broken english, I am running on fumes, I somehow couldn't sleep more than 2 hours last night :D


I have worked in both the public and private sectors. It's not a matter of public vs private sectors at all. Incompetence on both sides at all levels, with the worse incompetence on the private side because there actually is a level of meritocracy on the public side (in non-politically-appointed positions) while on the private sector side ass-kissing is enough to get a promotion.

Agreed. Public sector has more coasters and people milking the system at low levels. But the people who actually get shit done are way more competent than the Fortune 50.

20% paycut here. This comes after being laid off a few months ago when Docker sold their enterprise version (sort of, the new company made us all offers but they have terrible benefits among other problems so most people didn't take the offer or only stayed long enough to find something else), so we're all a bit sad. There was then an immediate around of layoffs right after that (though thankfully my department wasn't affected).

At least we still have a job, and I'll take the pay cut if it means we don't have to make anyone else redundant, but I wish the employees had a seat at the negotiating table for any of this.

> I wish the employees had a seat at the negotiating table for any of this

If the tech industry didn't seem to despise unionizing so much this could've been possible. Maybe that will change once the current disaster is behind us.

Unfortunately, in an economic environment like this a union won't help you. We're seeing many public services staff that are unionized laid off (in Canada) and I'm sure this is happening around the world. By the end of this it's quite likely this will look similar to the Great Depression.

It wouldn't stop all the layoffs but that isn't the goal. The goal would be to give employees a vote when decisions are made on how to deal with the economic fallout instead of being the passive victims of whatever decision is arrived upon by upper management and the board.

Instead of instantly laying off as many people as possible, the union could have brought other proposals to the table to try and help both the company and employees. Maybe you delay 401k matching until the end of the year instead of paying it every paycheck. Maybe cut employee salaries and hours instead. The union at least gives the employees the chance to voice ideas on how to help the company and themselves make it through instead of finding out that 400+ of your coworkers were let go over Zoom via a two minute prerecorded message.

Unions sort by seniority and screw everyone else. Always.

Let's assume that's true (it's not always true, but let's assume it is): isn't this still better than sorting by "only execs get taken care of and everyone else gets screwed by default"? I'd rather have someone voicing my concerns even if the person who's been there longer gets taken care of more.

> 400+ of your coworkers were let go over Zoom via a two minute prerecorded message.

That's harsh and cold. Wow.

A union could have helped negotiated the amount the lowest paid among us was cut vs the amount execs were cut, for example. I don't know the details of this specific case, so I don't know if there was another viable option, but at least if we had a group of the workers who did know I would have some confidence that there really was no other way and this wasn't just management cutting everyone elses pay to avoid having to lose a couple million themselves.

Look at BoxBoat -- consulting company near DC. I know they picked up a lot of Docker Inc's PS stuff and had their own clients. They're all remote, so that helps.

> I wish the employees had a seat at the negotiating table for any of this

Perspective from the other side of the table: I can't speak for every company, but we've worked day and night for weeks to figure out a plan that puts employees first and gives us a fighting chance to emerge from this crisis. It may not feel like it, but damn we fight for every single person's job. Paycuts w/o layoffs is a win.

That's great, and I'm sure our management did too, but I still wish they'd roped employees in and not just shoved a decision down our throats in a quick video call.

We had a call on Friday exactly for this. We were asked if we want a paycut or laid-offs.

A friend of mine mentioned that their company also took them to 80% pay but also gave them Fridays off. I wish we had a union just so they could negotiate for something like this.

-I just got laid off after 15 years at an engineering company, the last couple of which I was an engineering manager/technical authority.

Prospects aren’t too bleak - the local engineering scene is pretty sound and I’ve heard encouraging noises from a couple of companies I’d love to work for - however, while the country is in lockdown and everybody is burning through their cash pile, not much hiring gets done.

On the upside, I have a few weeks at a minimum to spend more time with my kids and bring my Russian and Portuguese skills back up to speed.

Since you are Norwegian, and presumably working for a Norwegian company, I am curious how such a layoff was possible. Was it an actual layoff or are you permittert?

-Oh, it was a proper layoff, all right. Assuming you are in Norway, too - got summons to a 15.1 out of the blue, couple of days later I was told that my services were not required going forward, signed an agreement giving me several months of severance pay + no obligation to work during the termination period against waiving my right to sue.

Considering the petroleum service industry had been struggling for years, I took the severance pay rather than fighting to keep a job which would in all likelihood disappear shortly anyway.

Took four business days from having a steady job to being unemployed.

Yes, I live in Oslo.

Ouch, that is really rough. I hope your severance was enough to carry you through until you can find something new. My partner is in petro-adjacent company* and they have a full hiring freeze. We are wondering when the layoffs are coming. Good luck.

*technically, they have an industry agnostic service, but something like 90% of their customers are oil companies, so...

-Thank you; unless this corona thing paralyse anything and everything for the rest of the year or more, I expect to land on my feet (and, should the current state of affairs continue for that long, I suspect the lack of a paycheck is not going to be the biggest of my worries!)

I hope we'll see a partial return to normal-ish after Easter - at least to the extent that the companies I've been in touch with start planning for the months and years ahead, rather than just trying to figure out how to survive until something resembling normalcy returns.

What I see locally (in the Sunnmøre maritime cluster) is that a lot of smaller companies have pivoted from being suppliers to the oil industry exclusively to catering to offshore wind, fisheries, aquaculture &c - whereas the larger corporations say they are doing the same, only spending years burning through cash trying to develop a strategy for the new reality.

With any luck, your partner's company will get business from this - for lack of a better phrase - 'greener' economy as it matures. Exciting times with lots of opportunities for entrepreneurs around here, at least - with lots (by rural Norwegian standards...) of skilled people, machinery and capital available for cheap.

> I hope we'll see a partial return to normal-ish after Easter - at least to the extent that the companies I've been in touch with start planning for the months and years ahead, rather than just trying to figure out how to survive until something resembling normalcy returns.

This is how it feels in Bulgaria as well. We are no longer an exclusively outsourcing destination; we have quite a few very adequate tech companies and people's salaries in the area are steadily, if at glacial pace, growing.

I feel that currently a lot of people are needlessly panicking and this has a snowballing effect BUT eventually people will realise they still have customers they have to serve if they want to receive the next invoices and will thus realise they need the tech workers.

I am in a similar situation like yours, albeit slightly worse -- I can ride my savings up until the end of June I reckon, and I hope the economy starts swinging back by then.

Best of luck and stay strong.

Russian skills, huh? :)

The company I'm contracting for is flaming out fast. It's sad to see the death spiral in action. It's a shame, because it's the best work I've ever done and I don't know if anyone will ever see it. The software team was 100% remote and they were the best colleagues I've ever had.

It sucks to have graduated in 07, and feel like you've hit your stride in 20.

You must be seriously grieving. I'm sorry, dude.

[UK] Not me but my partner—classical music. Almost everyone is freelance, and everyone has had all their gigs cancelled for the next few months, leaving a lot of people for whom strings were tight to begin with in complete limbo. Performers obviously but also all the events, management, publicity, everything. The scale of it is almost incomprehensible, unless massive investment is made in the sector to keep it alive, it will just... die.

> my partner—classical music

> a lot of people for whom strings were tight

There's a bad joke in there about tuning a little more flat, but I'll leave well enough alone and instead send my sympathies.

I have an acquaintance who was nominated for Juno[0], Canada's highest music award, and the entire award process is apparently dead now, no certainly no awards show. This should be her possibly hitting a new high point in her career- a big award can mean future opportunities- and instead it's all just on hold.


Yeah, I've seen this too from the perspective of some friends in classical music. I don't think it will die in the sense that noone will put on or attend classical music performances anymore, but longtime institutions that were homes for it will go away, and performers will go into other work, so when all's said and done I imagine it will quite a smaller field than it was, fewer people in it, less money in it for anyone to make a living off of, fewer opportunities and performances. But who knows.

Or severely deflate. The instruments and people and equipment will still be there, just much much cheaper to get. Companies will be owned by defaulted bonds rather than stocks.

These aren't companies. Most are charities. The Royal Opera House will be fine, the hundreds of smaller music organisations will not.

I see. My point is they'll be different, regardless of the "incorporation format". I.e. the instruments and the people will still be there.

Unless people stop going to concerts/performances, well then the equipment goes to the basement.

I like Ben Folds's perspective on the institution of the symphony orchestra as a celebration of civilization itself. The performing arts are all about groups of people coming together to pull off something greater than the sum of its parts.

But the unfortunate corollary is that you cannot just stack up the parts and have a successful production by magic. It takes a lot more than that. The institutions and structures currently doing it season after season have a kind of life of their own, and it's absolutely subject to decay and death. The ecological niche they occupy is extraordinarily harsh, so they're not easily replaced either.

Practically speaking: you need space and equipment. You need artistic direction with taste and vision to hire the right performers and designers and communicate it to them. You need skilled craftsmen to implement the designs, quick-thinking managers to wrangle the logistics, ambitious 2nd assistants to make the coffee. You'll need all this for months before you turn a dollar of revenue. Then you need marketers to bring in an audience, front of house staff to deal with it, professional schmoozers to pry open the rich ones' checkbooks (ticket sales are never enough).

If it turns out the creative vision was too safe, it'll be panned as boring and derivative. If you take a risk and fail, you'll also get eaten alive. So you have to take a real risk, and have it go your way, every time. At any point, one of the key people who held it all together by the seat of her pants could retire to take care of her sick mother. Or a crucial benefactor (public or private) could have a change of heart. Or Walgreens could snatch up the lease on your performance space. Or an influential critic could be in a bad mood. Any one of these things could be the end.

Please do not take performing arts organizations for granted. There are many once-grand theaters and concert halls in this country abandoned and rotting away. Even more that were simply erased. These things hang on to life by a thread in the best of times.

People will sell their instruments if they'll depserately need money.

I work for a very large player in the print industry (which is transitioning to 'multichannel marketing solutions provider').

I feel like my company has done the best they can (given our industry has already been under a lot of pressure prior to COVID) under circumstances. We're in groups of rolling furloughs so folks have not been permanently laid off. While laid off, we still are receiving medical benefits, which is great.

As a remote worker prior to all this, I haven't had to change much of my day to day and our infrastructure has handled the influx of remote workers (thousands) very well.

However, it also makes the prospect of moving to another company daunting. I worked on-prem for years and developed relationships with co-workers prior to moving off-site. I have a lot of anxiety about not being able to create the same relationships at a new company or having to commute again to a city center for work (something I really can't see myself doing unless absolutely necessary). It's a scary prospect and one I think is absolutely possible given the precarious state of my industry and the economy on the whole.

I’m in the print industry too.

Things are definitely uncertain at the moment. Our company was fairly small, and we were growing incredibly fast. COVID19 has cut our sales by 90%. As an industry with high fixed costs, this is devastating and I’ll most likely be laid-off in a coming weeks.

I spent years trying to get this company off the ground, and as soon as we picked up steam the market tanked.

I have my doubts about the long term recovery of the print market, so I think this is will be my exit from the industry.

I was on parental leave and my son was born on a beautiful day. The next day, I got an email announced that everybody in my technical team is marked as redundant. I am speechless and through conversation, there is a sudden withdraw of investors to fund our company. Without this funding, it is impossible to keep the company going. From what I know, it sounds like a way to minimise the loss.

I was sad. We have a big plan to roll out a big feature in May. Now everything I worked on in last 6 months will be put on hold. Probably it never push to production.

My latest joy of becoming a father was ultimately skewed. Now I have to find a new job in Australia while taking care of a newborn. Things become harder this time when many companies impose a hiring freeze.

I still keep my faith that one day I will escape from this unemployment. One day.

Fired officially next week but to be honest it was ongoing before the lockdown;)

On the bright side it seems the tech job market is not too much affected here in Paris but we'll see how it goes.

Well at least I can now finish some freelance gig that was taking my free time, and it gives me more time to continue learning elixir, I even finally took the time to open-source and deploy a demo of a LiveView game I made initially at the company that let me go. https://every-weak-tapaculo.gigalixirapp.com/potus

You sure? I'd be surprised if even 10% of tech companies were hiring right now, regardless of location ...

I think people sometimes don't consider how small a shift in supply and demand in a labor market can change things. A couple percent of the industry's workforce laid off, and even 5-10% fewer open positions (I suspect it's much worse than that), and suddenly a hot job market looks a hell of a lot cooler.

Obviously but for now I still have many contacts on LinkedIn and former colleagues wanting to refer me to their current company.

So yeah it's entirely subjective and I guess it'll heavily depend on how many times the lockdown is extended ...

> still have many contacts on LinkedIn and former colleagues wanting to refer me to their current company

Follow up ASAP & push for action in days, not weeks.

Lot of employees at companies are in the dark about the extent. I know companies that are putting on a show saying they're hiring but internal management is only hiring the absolute top talent out of layoffs.

> tech job market is not too much affected here in Paris

What are good websites to find positions for work in Paris? No problem if the website is in French, bien entendu :-)

I would say LinkedIn, Glassdoor, and then WelcomeToTheJungle and ChooseYourBoss.

As a hiring manager, I’ve had success with WttJ, LinkedIn, and talent.io

I gave up on ChooseYourBoss, I don’t know how it is for candidates but the UX for recruiters is awful. Never tried Glassdoor, to be honest it never crossed my mind.

(PS: no open positions at the moment but we’re moving forward with the hires we made in the last 3 months)

Haha, I enjoyed the game.

I'd suggest a 20-25 second long timer.

Thanks :) The timer started higher back when it was real colleagues but it allowed people to cheat too much thanks to the team page so by trial and error I eventually settled on 10 seconds.

The company I work at is trying to avoid laying off people by asking everyone across the board to take a pay cut. I had recently received a raise, so they paid me at my raised rate up until the end of the month, but they let me know they would need to revert me to my un-raised salary moving forward. All in all, a reduction of about $7,000 to my salary. Some of the other devs (the most expensive ones) took a 30% pay cut.

They are hoping they can qualify for some of the $2 trillion stimulus and can recoup some of the losses (and if the economy recovers, they might be able to give us some of our reduced salaries back as bonuses at the end of the year), but we will just have to see.

Ultimately, I'm grateful that we aren't all getting laid off right now. I think more companies should offer salary cuts as an option instead of just blindly laying off people.

I've been in this situation. First it was 1/2 paychecks. Then, a few months into the recession it was 1/4 paychecks. Finally, it was 1/4 paychecks and no health insurance. That was when I buggered out. It might have been more humane to just lay off people.

As someone running a company that is trying to keep people employed by cutting salaries: we don't want our employees to be scared about not having healthcare the moment they might need it the most. We talked it with everyone, we are all taking a pay cut (us, founders, were the ones making the least already so I think our employees understand) and we are doing everything possible to extend our runway until at least next year. We also setup a scheme where we compensate our employees with stock options equivalent to the salary lost, until things get better.

This situation sucks, but there's no way losing healthcare now would be 'more humane' than taking a pay cut.

us, founders, were the ones making the least already

I don't think people realise how common this is.

> us, founders, were the ones making the least already.

Sure, but founders also have magnitudes more equity than any employees.

It sucks for a founder of a company that isn’t profitable or has great growth but for a decent run company the equity is far more valuable than the salary.

Like Steve Jobs taking a $1/year salary and still being one of the richest folks on the planet.

As a founder you can still up your salary to a sustainable level and let your employees go. Employees don’t have that option.

Of course in usual times, taking the lower salary in exchange for the increase in stock is perfectly acceptable bet. Stock is only an advantage if your company survives.

In times like this, it could be a strain on your bottom line (depending on how much your day-to-day living costs are), as well as a higher risk because chances of your company going under are much higher.

> As a founder you can still up your salary to a sustainable level and let your employees go. Employees don’t have that option.

Hm... yeah, one could play that game for a couple months, but eventually you'll run out of money no matter what.

People like Jobs are outliers, for every one of them there are thousands where the reality is quite different.

This. Of course it's very different to take a $1 salary when you are already wealthy, the company you are a CEO of is already worth billions and you are getting paid in financial instruments that are worth actual money.

For most startup founders, including myself, that's not the case. I'm not complaining, I'm sure we are ourselves in a much better position that the average American who is getting squeezed by this crisis, but there's definitely a huge gap between my company and Apple, LOL.

I landed my first job as full-time professional software developer doing React-Native development right before the Coronavirus pandemic struck. By the time I finished filling out all of the hiring paperwork, drug tests, etc., they reneged on the offer. Was pretty upset about it at the time, but I guess it's hit everyone else just as hard.

My advice is that if another offer comes up, take it even if the salary is not what you expect. If there really will be a big recession then very soon it will be very hard to find anything. You may end up unemployed for a long time and by the time things pick up, companies will prefer the new grads. In 2002 I made the mistake of being too proud to take underpaid work and it hurt me quite a bit.

This is also why people need to push back hard against the typical recruiter habit of asking for your old salary in order to lowball your offer. Many people go through struggles like this.

Answer to give the recruiter is "I can't say my salary, I signed an NDA, but I can tell you how much I want..."

Asking for previous salary is illegal in CA. Practice your poker face.

Where was the job located? It seems odd that you had to take a drug test for the job. I don't think I've heard of that happening in the tech field.

It happens frequently enough outside major development hubs, especially on the east coast.

Tons of non-tech companies drug test, and they have lots of tech roles.

If they have any government contracts they may be required to.

I haven't been laid off yet but I expect it to happen any moment. This will be my second layoff this year. I went through coding interview hell to get this job too, and I was so happy and things were really looking up. This is hard.

I’m a bartender. At least 75% of my friends have been laid off. Not just bartenders, but servers, bussers, most cooks, managers, and everyone I know who works in hotels as well.

Just curious, how does a bartender ends up staying reading HN?

I have a physics degree. It turns out a bachelor’s degree doesn’t help much, and I was too burnt out at the time to go to grad school. I took a few introductory programming classes and I’ve been trying to get back into it lately. Try talking to a bartender sometime, you may find out they’re not as dumb as rocks.

-Irrelevant, but I chuckled at your last sentence.

One of the all-time smartest people I’ve ever met worked a bar in Bergen, Norway; autodidact in anything which caught his fancy, he could give you a lecture on what brought down the Scythians, serve a new guest and striking up a conversation on advances in semiconductor fabrication with him, picking up where he left off the lecture on the Scythians before heading out to see if any of the patrons outside wanted anything, having a quick word on the Poincaré conjecture with the math postgrad having a beer in the backyard...

He had studied for a while at the university before figuring out that he’d have more time to study if he didn’t have to concern himself with exams, quit, kept his uni library card and got down to it.

Norway's like that. Last time I was there the taxi driver taking us back to the airport knew more about the CUDA API than I do (not a terribly high bar, but still...).

My bartender friends are some of the smartest, most capable, most hard-working people I know.

I met a programmer many years back who had previously been a physicist at CERN. I'd never have guessed but I think he picked up the programming bug there. If you think coding is your thing then go for it and all the best to you!

Not really surprising when you consider that the web was invented there (CERN).

There are very few physicists who don't know how to program.

Hn is very it specific. I wouldn't thought that you find many bartenders here for the soul reason that those two interests or occupations are just different independent to intelligence.

Super cool backstory. I also wondered what brought you here as well.

How’s the pay? What’s the process for becoming a bar tender? I always thought it might be a fun job when I retire.


Though sad that she's now taking marching orders from Pelosi now https://www.nationalreview.com/news/aoc-drifts-away-from-act...

That article has very thin gruel for "taking marching orders from Pelosi": not endorsing some people and asking for civility in Twitter feuds.

Be skeptical of anything written by the National Review about progressives.

I don't follow politics much. But I think it just underlines to get stuff done in many areas of life you need to be willing/able to compromise and build coalitions.

If you read this forum carefully you'll find it indeed contains constructors, truck drivers, firefighters, pilots, physicians, teachers... just to name a few from memory.

All these "non-developers" are priceless when discussions pop up which require domain expertise (which we developers usually lack)

[edit: they are also priceless generally speaking]

ha I tried to find out what people are on HN, but I didn't get any responses. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21484252

Not in tech either, but I like reading and casually following the scene. Kinda funny watching the language flame-wars every so often

That's an interesting response. It seems to me that the flame level on this site is quite low in response to somewhere like Reddit. People argue here, of course, but usually it's in an informational sort of way and rarely devolves into "yer momma is soooo fat...." kind of discourse.

Yeah, you're right. Civil disagreement is allowed here on HN; anything else gets downvoted into oblivion.

Obviously, Haskell is the superior option here. Anything else is a travesty.

You're WRONG. :D :D


Or was it PHP?

You're close, it's Lisphp, the Lisp built on top of PHP.

How do you find HN compares to Slashdot?

Discussion on hn is higher quality. I'm an almost original slashdot reader, user id is 4 digits. I haven't browsed there in perhaps years at this point.

It's been at least a decade or more since I have been on /. . It really seemed to have went down hill when the Bush election was going on, they did a lot of political coverage and it just ruined the feel of the site. People started exposing their political bent and the site in general just became more snarky.

The Microsoft bashing was better on slashdot though </joke>

I'm still getting used to the idea that Microsoft might not be all evil. It's a weird feeling :)

It is pretty bad now, low signal to noise ratio. Lots of trolling.

Don't read slashdot (never seen it TBH)

Doing market research for the Ballmer Peak


- Could be they have a hobby of computers

- Could be they are still in school

Not everyone who cares about tech news is working in the tech field.

HN is way more geeky/nerdy than your regular tech news, hence my curiosity.

Not really, it's just slower moving. For every 1 real geek tech post, there are two or three days of regular news things. I came here based on the slower, more thoughtful discussion. I'm in higher ed, not even close to tech.

At one point I was working construction during the day and working on a visual programming language at night.

Needless to say, I have little sympathy for those claiming a talent shortage.

I always found it interesting how many people have taught themselves programming.

I was at a customer site a few months ago installing some test hardware and the guy I was working with was their welder, having been an auto mechanic before and we got into a discussion about programming in Python!

The best interaction, however, would be the homeless guy I met who used to be a programmer.

One of the best Microsoft stack Sysadmins (AD/Exchange) I knew back in the day was a former diesel mechanic who got badly injured in an accident and transferred to do help desk work. He dove in and really mastered it. Just a great guy who was great at training new folks.

Not programming but the other wacky transition was a Wall St guy who burnt out, started a subsistence farmstand in the country, married a hippie lady and sold vegetables, drove a school bus and plowed snow to get by. Really nice guy... when he died it turned out he owned a few buildings in NYC and was loaded to the tune of $20-30M, and his family had no clue.

I once met an unemployed software engineer who went door to door selling magazine subscriptions.

Reminds me of King Vidor's The Crowd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crowd_(1928_film)

(I guess that could kinda be a spoiler for an almost 100 year old film?)

LOL might be too dated, for this crowd but man that movie was a classic to those that worked thru that era.

My plumber has written a ton of VBA in Excel to automate his business.

I took a year off once and strongly considered trying to get a job as a bartender for fun because I enjoy making cocktails.

Was going to ask this too lol

My brother tends bar at a golf course. They furloughed him until the end of April with pay. Hopefully he can go back to work after that.

Isn't it a tiny bit optimistic to assume this "will be over" by end of April?

Golf courses may be open to give people things to do as long as you maintain 6 feet social distance. In that case they may allow a bar to operate for to go drinks for the course. A lot of them have an attached kitchen as well.

That’s bad. My work hours got reduced to 32 hours with corresponding pay cut. Not a big deal for me but I assume a lot of these people can barely make ends meet even while working. Let’s hope the unemployment benefits in the stimulus bill really work.

I'm sorry to hear that. What are you going to do to pass the time while you are laid off?

I’ve been trying out various EdX classes on data science. Any suggestions?

Consider the free PDF of Chollet's "Deep Learning with Python" and/or www.fast.ai


I don't really have anything against Chollets book, but introduction to statistical learning is an absolutely fantastic introduction to the modelling part of data science.

Start there to get better intuitions, then practice practice practice.

It helps if you try to get data to answer your own questions, as there's a lot more motivation in doing that rather than Iris or MNIST.

I left voluntarily before I had something else lined up. We weren't really doing anything we were hired to do (pentesting), so I wanted something else. I got really restless and it's why I'll stay away from government contracting positions in the future unless desperately needed.

4 months ago this wasn't a completely bad idea as tech was known as a seller's market and taking time off to learn new things was normal.

It's obviously not realistic for the next year or so at least.

My company isn't doing layoffs (yet), but the next year or so is precisely what I'm worried about. I've been at my company for about 1.5 years, and, absent coronavirus, I'm very confident I'd be in no danger of losing my job.

Right now, taking the risk of jumping to a new company doesn't sound appealing. But, if this goes on too long, I'm sure we'll end up doing layoffs at some point. We're already on a hiring freeze, and there are a lot of cost counting and cost saving projects going on right now.

If layoffs do come, though I may be better off than my many coworkers on visas, a job search in the middle of a recession does not sound like any fun. And, layoffs can tend to come in waves, so, even if I make the first cut, there could very well be another round coming in a matter of weeks or months. In that case, I would rather not be around for the second wave of layoffs. I think this scenario is the only one in which taking the risk of switching companies makes any sense.

>a job search in the middle of a recession does not sound like any fun

During the dot-com bust, I was very lucky. I had lunch with someone I knew just a few days after I was laid off for dot-com bust related reasons. And he ended up hiring me about a month later.

However, during the interim I was job hunting, including meeting with various other executives I knew and I don't think I had so much as a nibble. And, of course, at least at the moment, there aren't a lot of service sector jobs you can take just to keep some money rolling in.

Just before the dot-com bust, I decided to return to college for my masters degree. This turned out to be a good decision because soon after the bust so many were clamoring to get admitted but I was already established in my studies and I had cashed out some investments to fund my education.

If many people at your company have been laid off it might be a good idea to check with a lawyer to see if the company has complied with the requirements to be exempt from WARN act compliance. Here's some relevant analysis from California:


The WARN act has been temporarily suspended:


Did you read the link I posted? It's a legal analysis of that order because ...

"The Executive Order does not suspend the California WARN Act in its entirety, nor does it suspend the law for all covered employers. The Executive Order only suspends the California WARN Act’s 60-day notice requirement for those employers that satisfy the Order’s specific conditions. "

I found this list on Reddit if you're looking for a full list of companies that are laying employees off, pausing hiring, or still hiring:


I should have mentioned this is being community sourced here:


We're gathering a similar list of Who's Hiring with some more detail on location / roles here: https://www.levels.fyi/still-hiring/

Hope it helps!

Wow, much bigger than I expected.

If you have been laid off and looking for a remote job, At Remote Leaf, we have been working on an initiative to curate the remote jobs from Hacker News who is hiring thread. Hopefully you will find some interesting openings here.


I asked the owner for a 20% cut. We had some tough negotiations on my salary 2 years ago and I wanted to express my willingness to share the 'pain'. So far she hasn't taken me up on it.

*I don't know how to take the fact she hasn't taken me up on it :/ but I do adore the company ~ 13 years in service.

May be quite a smart move. The "kill list" order should (rationally) be heavily influenced by the total compensation.

I was not laid off, but my contract ended 3/30. The company I worked under offered me permanent employment around 3/15. I told my recruiter during an off site lunch meeting that I was pretty much unhappy with the work, people, and location. I also foolishly added that I will take the permanent role, but asked if they could find me another one instead as I continue looking.

It quickly occurred to me that wasn't the wisest thing to tell a person whose job it is to find a long standing candidate. So I asked if my complaints were between us, she said of course.

Later that day, my other recruiter calls me saying he has to tell the company I was contracted at that I will not continue past my term. His justification how it would look bad on there part.

So now I'm without any job, still looking, but without luck.

Sorry to hear that. Always keep in mind that if the recruiter has placed or is looking to place mutiple candidates at a company, and the recruiter is paid a fee by the company--Then the company is really the recruiter's client, not you. Good luck in your search.

Bummer, what kind of work are you wanting to do next?

I'd like to continue as a C# .Net developer because that's my strongest skill. I'm starting to wonder if telling employers that boxes me in.

Not laid off, but in limbo. I accepted a new job at the end of February that was originally supposed to start on 3/30. Unfortunately, my start date is now up in the air due to logistical issues getting my hardware so I can start work. I no longer have a confirmed start date.

It's a bummer because I resigned from my previous position on 3/13 so I could have time in between jobs. Now I'm getting a lot more time than I planned and I'm hoping my new job doesn't evaporate. I'm excited to work with this company and team so I am keeping my fingers crossed for now.

If my new job does disappear, I would really like to find an opportunity working with Clojure(Script) and/or Kubernetes.

Perfect storm for the company I was working for. Had their worst fourth quarter in company history. Purchased another company in January as part of a pivot to a more profitable business model. They were a bit desperate to get the deal done, probably didn't even consider what was occurring in China at the time. They had significant operations in Southeast Asia. As far as I knew zero planning had been taking place until it was too late.

Essentially all revenue generating operations halted as of March 16th.

I was unfortunately leading the charge in a newly created division. We were not generating revenue yet, so the hammer fell for all of us.

Stay happy, stay safe, and keep hacking!

Really sorry to everyone who is out of work now :(, I wish I could do more then just give you some links and thoughts but hope this helps.

1. If you're looking to ramp-up your skills Pluralsight is giving away a free month of training this month: https://www.pluralsight.com/offer/2020/free-april-month

2. Large companies are still hiring I growth areas, I am not 100% sure but If I was a betting man anything at Google, Amazon or Microsoft that is cloud related is probably still booming to get people on board

3. If you wind up finding some work that is remote in this situation and don't have WFH experience check out this great set of tips for WFH by Scott Hanselman: https://www.hanselman.com/blog/LoveInATimeOfCoronaVirusTipsT...

My industry (Defense contracting) is fairly immune to at least the immediate fallout from all this. If this turns into a longer general economic downturn, however... who knows?

But my company is hiring right now (though, most of the jobs require a clearance). The jobs aren't remote, well.. right now many of them sort of are, but they'll surely revert to on-site again eventually.

Can confirm Amazon is actively hiring rn, and not just for AWS.

I got laid off on March 25th, I was called to go to the office the day before, told it was that "the higher ups wanted to see the team", only it was to get me to sign the paperwork, and give back the laptop, they paid a taxi to get me to my apartment, but it felt like an ambush

luckily my mother instilled in me the value of saving money, so I can survive for a while on my savings, but the double hit of the anxiety from the pandemic, and getting laid off has been quite stressing...

I'm open to any software development job, full-time, part-time, remote, I've been applying to several positions, but my first choice for applying cancelled all hires (a friend of mine who works there told me their CEO sent an email saying that), and most other companies are probably doing something similar

Former SRE in Hamburg, Germany, laid off on the 27th of March. :(

Looking for data engineering roles

email at alex at alexandarnarayan dot com or https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandarnarayan/

I work for a company currently hiring a data engineer (100% remote):


Applying now. Thank you!!!

No worries - good luck with the application :)

I was supposed to intern at Shopify Canada this summer. I'm free for next three months and would love to work on some interesting projects or remotely. https://github.com/shashanoid

DM me if interested - we are doubling our engineering intern class this summer, I believe 50-75 more seats, to try and help out folks who've had their summer plans canceled. This would be at least partially remote, but we are considering bring folks to the Bay Area if shelter in place ends early in the summer.

(posted publicly in case others are in the same boat)

No info in your profile to DM, but I'm interested in this as well. I'm a third year CS undergrad in the Bay Area, I'd really appreciate the opportunity. My email is "jobs (at) ameyathakur.com"

Hey - not the OP but where can I DM you? Do you have an email?

Did shopify cancel co-ops?

No, it got canceled for me. I'm on F-1 based in US and with the borders closed there's nothing that Shopify could do. Such a tangled situation :)

Pretty sure he still is doing the internship but I think his current gig was cancelled and he's looking for something to fill the next 3 months.

Here in the Netherlands, the government have taken the action to help out affected companies fulfil their payroll obligations, meaning the govt is effectively paying the salaries of an extra million people (12% of our total workforce).

As the only IT guy in a company that does pretty much all its business online, and being the longest-serving employee in the company, my job is safer than anybody else's, but we have seen revenue plummet and we're having to let some people go - which is heartbreaking. Even though our society will make sure that they will not be in real trouble, and it ensures the survival of the company, these are valued coworkers and genuinely nice people and I'm sad to see them go.

I had a one year contract terminated a month early today, with one week notice. Upon getting the news, I immediately starting searching and was lucky to find another contract. Finding work will become harder as the number of laid off workers increases.

Not me, but since it's been linked here a bunch and is related to the tech industry, everyone at The Outline was laid off today and is being discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22769301

My workplace had furloughs, but all of the developers were excluded from it. Guessing the management had enough trouble hiring developers as it was.

I was laid off at my little startup a couple weeks ago, 6 people were affected.

I'm a 3D Artist with some software engineering cred, so I work pretty well with engineers in small teams that still need the asset pipeline figured out. Portfolio: https://penny-art.com/

LinkedIn still likes to send recruiters my way telling me about awesome C++ opportunities developer game dev keywords. Please no

I haven't personally had a change yet, although things have been a little slow here lately, so who knows.

My wife, on the other hand, was reduced to 3 days a week at her job for the next 90 days, with a reduced salary to reflect that, so 40% reduction in salary. At least she wasn't in the group at her office that was furloughed.

So things are still tighter for us, although we're still a lot better off than most people right now.

I'm fortunate enough to say that I haven't.

I work in tech for a media and publishing company. We're classified as an essential business in Ontario. We are all working remotely--editorial teams, production, tech, everyone save some of the press operators.

We have reduced to 4-days a week, and so we had to take a 20% pay cut for a 6 week term. I think they're hoping to buffer our collective coffers in case this is extended and ad revenue falls further.

On another note, our digital readership is setting internal records.

My partner works for a Canadian SaaS firm based out of Saskatoon. About 30% of them were laid off including her.

They had a heartfelt meeting with the founder but as soon as they got the official word the machine locked her out. She still meets over video for drinks with some of her coworkers.

Being that her company works closely with the restaurant industry we're hoping it won't be too hard for them to ramp up again, but that remains to be seen.

Me. I'm looking for recruiters to leave me alone and let me draw unemployment in peace for a while. This may not be THE answer to burnout, but it's AN answer.

Strange time 4 me here. Worked for 5 and half years and was getting the "Reduction in force" thingy with 24 other IT folks out there for a major healthcare insurer. I was looking for a job since Dec-2019 anyway.

At least I was fully paid to the end of March and now getting some form of supplemental $$$ till end of June. Then freakin' reality will hit as I will paying out for Cobra. This Covid issue is introducing the raw side of business, loyalty, connections, solitude and just watching bad news all day.

So, my advice is treat yourself better and be kind to yourself, your family and true friends.

I found this forwarded layoff referral list


not sure what the source is.

Interesting. It's a private document so it's hard to pull any stats out. I did manage to get the top ten companies (back of the napkin hack so take it with a pinch of salt):

  amazon | 13
  thumbtack | 10
  student | 8
  wework | 8
  wayfair | 6
  google | 6
  uber | 5
  cisco | 4
  oracle | 4
  adobe | 3
Surprised to see Amazon at the top. I thought they were the best poised against this. Again, it may not be signal of a wider problem but interesting nonetheless.

There was also an interesting row from a senior (VP level) at WeWork that would lead you to believe that they aren't in a good state ("f'ed"). Again, take it with a pinch of salt since we can't verify any of this data.

Amazon is almost certainly using this opportunity to "trim the fat." Not saying these people are bad developers, but Amazon seems to require a very specific personality type.

Can confirm

I was hired originally as a contractor but was converted to full-time as I had a competing offer, I was fired despite exemplary performance for a very "at will" reason. After getting some legal advice I may comment further but they're actively firing folks and not converting good contractors. If you're still at the company watch out.

Isn't this more reflective of Amazon running right on the wire operationally and needing to fire people to stay there? Why would they need an excuse to trim the fat from a purely fit point of view?

Nearly every large company has those merely competent people that they can't really justify getting rid of from a performance perspective, but these people are a bit too comfortable and the company feels like a new hire is likely to be more productive.

A downturn provides great cover for the company, since they can get ride of a bunch of these people en masse with minimal legal fuss. HR and Legal can be prepared and do it as efficiently as possible. Plus, it will look good on the balance sheet for the next quarter (if that's important to the company).

they have thousands of people. 13 layoffs is probably any given week.

There was also an interesting row from a senior (VP level) at WeWork that would lead you to believe that they aren't in a good state ("f'ed").

That is a good summary of WeWork: "SoftBank, which is run by the Japanese billionaire Masayoshi Son, announced on Thursday it was terminating a $3bn share tender rescue deal hammered out last October to save WeWork from collapse."

Combine that with a lot of long term and expensive real estate leases with nobody working in the buildings... f'ed.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/02/wework-foun...

There's lay-offs and then there's "I got fired this week." Does this document tell the difference? Because those numbers look about right for an industry that does have some involuntary turn-over week to week.

Yeah it's around the time that the yearly 5-10% stack ranking based forced attrition causes people to get fired. Don't think it has to do with COVID.

fwiw most of the the Google rows look to be consultants, contractors or vendors. Amazon had fewer with details but tentatively had full-timers.

though IIRC at least a couple of the FAAMNGOs try to keep C/C/Vs from portraying their jobs as being employed by the contracting company. Perhaps Google doesn't or perhaps it's more for linkedin than arbitrary spreadsheets or resumes.

I got picked up by an Amazon recruiter just before the outbreak. I was really tempted but I'm now glad I took the time to think about it.

I wonder if the Wayfair people are just still unemployed from their layoff in Feb.

I'm seeing a bunch of interns in there too which is kind of interesting.

You can get to the raw data, even for private documents, by downloading as csv/xlsx.

I also came across this the other day:


I'm curious as to why the redraw performance for the embedded Airtable is so terrible. Is that normal?

Most of the names are Indian... is it safe to assume contractors are the ones being laid off first at the moment?

or source is an indian website ?

What the actual f?

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