Usually no one notices, and the codename isn't even in the tweets or announcement email, just a sentence that clearly links to the jazz musician's Wikipedia page. (It's not like Ubuntu codenames that are widely used.) We also put a fun plug for djangoproject.org to the end of the "future" section, which hopefully will also introduce some new people to their project. I haven't seen anyone tweeting the codename except to complain, so I don't think this is going to confuse anybody think we're rewriting in Python. (However much they may want that.)
That said, apologies for the unintended controversy. In hindsight, we probably should have used "Reinhardt" to have the same effect of honoring one of our favorite musicians without anyone getting confused with a fellow Open Source project.
Now to work on 3.2 Sinatra! (Kidding, Ruby folks.)
I know this really isn't a big deal, and I really don't want to be a dick about it, but in this age of Google I would really appreciate it if you'd change the name. I think if we codenamed Django 1.3 "Wordpress" you'd feel similarly, right? I really don't want this to turn into A Thing, so how about you just see this as a small favor for a fellow open source hacker and I owe you beer/whiskey/whatever?
Please feel free to get in touch personally if you want to talk further - I'm firstname.lastname@example.org.
(I'm Jacob Kaplan-Moss, one of the lead Django devs.)
More noise in web searches?
But don't forget, after Firebird, it was going to be called "Mozilla Firebird".
Oh, fun times!
Can I just say that I, for one, would find that awesome? :)
How many people know/remember the Windows release codenames or any other product for that matter?
It's not like its "WordPress Reinhardt" or even a product name.
Reinhardt is also a common name.
Wordpress names its releases after the last names of famous Jazz musicians. They apparently have done this for the past 7 releases. Nobody knew, nobody cared. We all just called it "Wordpress".
The only people who will call this release "Reinhardt" are the uber-techies who actually care about version names. Everyone else will just call it WordPress like they always have.
You guys are named "Django". Nobody is going to confuse you with WordPress. The uber-techies know better, and nobody else cares.
This is one of the major secondary benefits of OSS in action.
"Django" is actually trademarked by The World Company Incorporation: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4007:a1...
IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: DOWNLOADABLE OPEN SOURCE COMPUTER SOFTWARE FOR USE IN CONNECTION WITH INTERNET PUBLISHING AND WEBSITE DEVELOPMENT. FIRST USE: 20050719. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050719
I know this really isn't a big deal, and I really don't want to be a dick about it, but I've been known as Reinhardt in HN for 169 days now and I would really appreciate it if you'd change the name. I think if I changed my nick to "photomattt" you'd feel similarly, right? I really don't want this to turn into A Thing, so how about you just see this as a small favor for a fellow HNer and I owe you beer/whiskey/whatever?
Please feel free to get in touch personally if you want to talk further - I'm email@example.com.
(I'm Reinhardt, one of the lead HN lurkers.)
This shouldn't be a big deal, it's two OSS projects.
"The obvious answer is to rewrite WordPress with Django"
No need to go sowing seed like this!
I'm a big fan of Django, but you'd have to admit that Django's "one virtual host for Python, another for static files" would over-complicate installation. Even on a made-for-Django host like WebFaction it would still be easier to install PHP-WordPress than Django-WordPress.
Setting that up? You just have to install a python egg in the app directory and you should be good to go.
Like I said, it's implementation details - a python application could be made easy-to-install. It's just that no one has built a special purpose application with a single minded install path (Django can be self-hosted, mod_python, or mod_wsgi but it is a framework and not an application in the sense that WordPress is an application and CakePHP is a framework) that is relevant to WordPress, closest probably being Plone.
Sure you could have RPMs or Debian packages tailormade for a specific distribution, but WordPress has the advantage that it's a downloadable package that can easily be (S)FTP'd into a folder on a shared host and run, and it'll work with most hosts. You just can't do that with Django-WordPress.
Again, I use Django/Python more than PHP these days, so it's not a PHP versus Python thing.
As an example, here is the index.wsgi front-controller that loads my Pylons app (note, mine is more complicated than I'm showing here because I use virtualenv to contain the app):
from paste.deploy import loadapp
application = loadapp('config:/home/my_app/production/production.ini')
Also, you don't need to tailor RPM's to the distribution, you can package your app as a python egg (which is cross-platform and contains the dependency links in your setup.py). I almost think this is easier than (S)FTP'ing the app up to your host. If your host gives you SSH access (which all $5 a month hosts do as far as I know - the crappier ones put you through a verification process, but a good one will give it to you the minute you are signed up) you can easily rsync the app up and then run "python setup.py whatevercommandyourappuses" and bam - you're good to go.
You could even put the database creation steps into the setup.py routine - "python setup.py build", "python setup.py install" <---- build necessary directories, then build your database tables for you. Much safer (and easier) than supplying an install script that can be accessed publicly.
I will concede though, that the whole scenario I've just described wouldn't be easy and fast for the average joe due to their inexperience with Python and/or the command line... That kind of thing makes me wonder though why we don't have basic programming courses as a requirement in high-school. If only my father (a lawyer) knew what sed/grep/awk could do for his manipulation of documents... I'm digressing now and I'll stop.
I know it isn't a PHP vs. Python thing - it just frustrates me when people make the argument for an inferior tool in favor of ease of use when ultimately (as per the scenario I gave above) the more powerful tool can save you time... I came from PHP land and will not go back - thanks in part to Python and the other methodologies I've learned.
When wide acceptance is the goal, even small frictions can be material.
This matters, facts or no.
However. I still think a well engineered application that could cater to many of the $5 hosts' python setups could be just as easy to setup as a PHP app.
It's also generally a strong mark as it is what TM attorneys call "arbitrary" - like Apple computer.
If Django doesn't sue, they weaken their trademark. You have to enforce your rights to your trademark if someone infringes or a later infringer can use your lack of enforcement as an argument against you.
The reality is that Django probably won't sue and it doesn't matter because few people Google for Wordpress releases by release name.
From the USPTO:
Word Mark DJANGO
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: DOWNLOADABLE OPEN SOURCE COMPUTER SOFTWARE FOR USE IN CONNECTION WITH INTERNET PUBLISHING AND WEBSITE DEVELOPMENT. FIRST USE: 20050719. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050719
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78680396
Filing Date July 28, 2005
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition April 25, 2006
Registration Number 3117015
Registration Date July 18, 2006
Owner (REGISTRANT) THE WORLD COMPANY CORPORATION KANSAS 609 NEW HAMPSHIRE, P.O. BOX 888 LAWRENCE KANSAS 66044
Attorney of Record Michael B.Hurd, Warren N. Williams, Stephen D. Timmons, John M. Collins, Thomas H. Van Hoozer, Thomas B. Luebbering, Andrew G. Colombo, Scott R. Brown, Tracy L. Bornman, Tracey S. Truitt, Michael Elbein, Joan Optican Herman, David V. Ayres, Kameron D. Kelly, Gregory J. Skoch, Jennifer C. Bailey, Cheryl L. Burbach, Matthew P. Harlow, and Sam M. Korte
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm nearly certain that this isn't true. Trademark holders are required to defend their trademarks, but "defense" does not mean "lawsuit." The law requires us to do whatever's necessary, which can run the gamut from polite notes to suits. Happily, as I knew it would, the former was perfectly sufficient in this case. Score one for open source.
Okay, so maybe apples aren't your stereotypical dessert...
WordPress certainly doesn't own the name Django, but the Django Software Foundation shouldn't have any particular right to it either if things were fair.
(Oh, btw., I'm a happy Django user - but I'd still be pretty upset if someone decided to trademark my name).
But my main point is that, while I understand that the Django Software Foundation has a trademark on the name Django in a specific content, it ought not to be possible to trademark a common name at all.
If Roberts and Sons Cleaners is an established brand in a community, we would want a legal mechanism for that business to protect their brand - without having to change every business name to XYZZY, etc.
So I think businesses can get trademarks for English words and common names - with the understanding that they might be geographically or market-segment limited in their protection.
Yes, because it's not confusing.
> I'd still be pretty upset if someone decided to trademark my name
It's very common for things to either be named after specific people, or to use names given to humans.
I'm currently working on a blogging/messaging website. Maybe I should call it Wordpress? :-)
But still. WTF.
But I've never heard of release names for wordpress before so I don't expect this to mess google search results up when searching for django (python) related things.
But calling a blogging platform Django is just stupid. It might also be unethical as some pointed out Django is a registered trademark.
I can see this happening:
- "So how do I get started with WordPress?"
- "You have to download the latest Django release"
- "Oh, ok"
(downloads latest from djangoproject.com ...)
Django, of course! o_O
Well, actually, that's for better.
ParkGrades 1.0 codename "Hotpot"
ParkGrades 1.3 codename "Yelp"
ParkGrades 1.5 codename "Reddit"
ParkGrades 2.0 codename "Apple"
Let me see if I understand what happens from the apparently still available press releases and puff pieces on the web: WordPress 3.1 was actually released using the codename "django"?
But then I looked at my calendar and realized it wasn't April.
I can imagine that after years of using WP there would be a significant portion who are looking for something more full-featured or performant or whatever, there are myriad reasons for changing platforms. That reasonably intelligent (or moneyed) people can so easily learn or hire to write a completely custom site seems uncontroversial. The enterprising RoR or Dj coder would do well to sniff around WP site owners.
In other news, WP has a new version coming out, which I imagine was the real point of WP starting this controversy. Cheap publicity, blog mentions, yadda yadda. Learn from history: upgrade early and often!
They may be seeing competition, but naming it Django - and quickly renaming once they realized - is hardly a sign of that.
I'm pretty amazed at how well this provides an allegory for WP people somehow not knowing about Django, and for what it's worth there are 188,000 Google results for "Wordpress vs. Django." I'm not trying to lie with statistics, I'm just trying to provide an illustration that they aren't worlds apart.
But it's not a huge deal, it's been fixed, no harm no foul, and only a controversy among tetchy nerds. I'm fine with that, but I can still say something's weird about it. ;)
Lame. Who cares.