Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Electrosensitivity is not a thing.

It's a disorder made up by hypochondriacs. If you said 3 percent of the population are hypochondriacs then I would believe you.

It's interesting how certain you are. What you mean to say is "we've never seen scientific evidence that Electrosensitivity is real, therefore as we currently understand it can't be".

Much like the Earth going around the sun, bacon causing cancer, BPA in plastic being bad (and now the substitutes too) etc. etc.

It's always not true until we discover it is.

Don’t forget these peoples ‘senses’ are easily disproved by blind tests. It’s much more of a hoax than you imply.

One will become electrosensitive in a dryer climate.

capacitive touch is derived by galvanic response that can be impacted by pH balance and electrochemistry.

potassium is used to reduce the impacts of gamma radiation (wrong band, but not irrelevent)

microwaves can be lethal from a distance of 1 km (death ray)

there is so much radiation in the air, to study the affects of one wave length i'd suppose you'd need multiple band pass filters to narrow the band in question and a noise generator for controlled results.

Missing "References" section, the formatting of your paper could also be improved. /s

I don't doubt that psychosoma and hypochondria play a role in many cases, but I will posit a couple of scenarios for you to ponder.

You can sense heat, can't you? If your phone is really warm in your pocket, will you notice? Higher output from the radios = more electricity flowing = more heat generation. You will likely notice this.

On another note, do you have eyes? They are sensitive to various frequencies of electromagnetic radiation (i.e, the visible spectrum). Some people are more attuned to the outer edges of this (infrared, and ultra-violet).

Seems a bit aggressive to dismiss all electrosensitivity as "not a thing", considering people are obviously very sensitive to different forms of EMR.

If you disagree, try standing in a fire, or sleeping with a spotlight on your face.

The maximum amount of power emitted from a WiFi radio in the US as regulated by the FCC is 0.071W. You're not realistically going to notice much heating from WiFi. Have you ever tried to cook something on the antenna of your WiFi? Try putting a cup of water next to your WiFi router and measure the temperature difference. You'd need massively super-human levels of sensitivity to begin to notice any warming effects. Sure, if you crank the output up to a few dozen watts you'll definitely start feeling the effects of RF. Get it a few dozen watts higher and you'll be at risk of getting RF burns after some prolonged exposure. Get it several hundred watts higher and you're cooking a dinner in the metal box.

As for possibly almost seeing things like WiFi, that's also pretty preposterous. WiFi operates at 2.4 or 5.8GHz. Your eyes start to get sensitive EM waves at about 4000000000GHz (lower end of what is commonly called visible spectrum). Even if you were at the ultra extreme low end of sensitivity, you still wouldn't really be anywhere near the frequency range required.

So for your example of standing in a fire or having a spotlight on your face, you'd need for it to be a practically room temperature fire or a millionth of a candle spotlight. The scales you're comparing to are just silly to the point of being meaningless.

Electrosensitivity is denied by intelligent healthy people who have never dealt with unexplainable fatigue relying on statistics and body system diagnosis that is inadequate for explaining chronic complex health conditions.

They're all just whinging man. Not one of them ever hoped it was all in their head and they could think their way out of it.

Hacker News is a perfect subset of people lacking the perspective to consider exploring the possibility that electrosensitivity is a thing that occurs with declining health.

Why so much negativity about researching something so ubiquitous? Let's discuss inverse power laws and quadratic functions, maybe we can build a machine learning model with our deficient statistics instead of taking two hundred phones out of two billion and testing their electromagnetic radiation at multiple distances and angles so we actually have a reliable model.

> Why so much negativity about researching something so ubiquitous?

There's nothing wrong with researching electrosensitivity to see if it's real, and to what extent. Heck, I've designed studies to test it (never carried out). The problem is not researching it, yet continuing to insist that it is the reason for people's "unexplainable" chronic pain / fatigue when there's currently zero non-anecdotal evidence for it.

I'm very much in favor of researching electrosensitivity. Whatever the cause, it's undeniable that certain illness patterns are becoming increasingly prevalent.

But I'm not really seeing research from electrosensitivity proponents, and especially not double blind studies. Instead, I'm seeing requests for fairly massive accommodations (along the lines of eliminating all Wifi and Cell phone radiation within a certain radius of a person), backed by not a whole lot of scientific evidence (unless one counts "Rudolf Steiner would have said so" as scientific evidence).

And I'm not even seeing many reports of such accommodations working to the long term benefit of the sufferers. Instead, once the Wifi is gone, they seem to develop MCS, etc. To me, that would support the prior that the suffering (which itself is undoubtedly real) is likely to have endogenous rather than environmental causes.

I agree. It’s a very small component of the overall health picture. But it is a component and should be researched.

Once the wifis gone the MCS patients spend more time sitting in front of wired digital display devices activating their central cortexes burning through their constrained glutamate supplies (which is also the most probable reason blind people don’t develop schizophrenia)which depletes their glutathione which increases their pathogenic load and inflammation while their spinal column is degenerating and inflaming from the sitting and those two things have a larger negative effect on them than the positive effect of the reduction in wifi exposure.

The disappointment at their failed remedy further aggravates their condition and nobody is interested in their next bright idea for alleviating their condition. So they live their life out labelled as a whinger and their negative emotions contribute further to their health decline.

They won't recover while exposed to er but because removing er won't cure them this is not a reason for not benefiting from minimising exposure.

Spinal function and glutathione production is as or more important for MCS suffers than a reduction in ER exposure which is important but nobody tells them that and I've no idea how to prove it but at least Im thinking about it while recovering from ME which has more utility than telling them to just get on with it.

The end of back pain book by surgeon Patrick Roth will gradually fix anyone's spinal function with a kettle bell and exercise ball.

Diet and sleep will gradually fix glutathione production.

No one will make money from researching this so Dr's are forced to ask patients to just harden up. There's a lot of benefit in hardening up as well but it won't recover spinal function or increase glutathione production or decrease er or chemical sensitivity.

Here's the reason.

Serum ferritin is an accute phase reactant that elevates due to inflammation from acute and sometimes chronic illness or heritable genetic mutation.

When someone is ill and inflamed and fatigued and they have excess serum ferritin circulating in their blood which contains 4500 iron atoms per molecule and absorbs electromagnetic radiation it interferes with their biochemistry.

Why people scoff at investigating the prevalence of electromagnetic radiation exposure when there is a causative mechanism for elevated risk in sick people is because of either arrogance or ignorance. Maybe if the doctors listened to patients instead of diagnosing hypochondria when dealing with edge cases health outcomes would begin to actually you know improve.

This is Iranian research. So what. They have brilliant scientists. Serum ferritin absorbs and is affected by electromagnetic radiation and is highly elevated in sick people. As my serum ferritin has reduced from 1200 to under 310 through venesection and lifestyle I have gradually been able tolerate exposure to electromagnetic radiation without being fatigued by it for extended periods. People running a daily energy budget become pretty adept at working out what burns through their energy and electromagnetic radiation exposure definitely does and bored sick people definitely want to use wireless devices but can't. The hypochondria diagnosis is illogical when it comes to electrosensititivity.


Against your one paper supporting the idea, there have been 100s of studies that do not. I’m all for science doing investigations, but we can’t accept a premise because it feels right.

What’s the fastest way to figure out the average existing fatigue levels and serum ferritin levels in the hundred studies so that I can quickly disprove my hypothesis?

I’m not saying it causes an illness I’m saying if you have a certain subset of illness it increases your fatigue. It also hurts your hands but you aint never gonna believe that ha ha. Iphone 7s are the worst.

I’m getting better and so is my tolerance to er so I’m not overly concerned about myself.

It’s the millions of other edge cases wrongly labelled as whingers by the medical system that I feel for.

ER doesn’t cause fatigue it exacerbates it in certain people. I better look at those hundreds of studies to figure out why I’m so wrong about this.

I don’t want to sell anyone a tinfoil hat or phone case and reducing exposure to er at night is great for sleep and CO2 emissions so why wouldn’t you.

Mercury in dental work works too!

Its not even funny how ignorant people are but let me rub it in: that one doesnt want to know there are biological effects has no more than placebo level effect. It is still an effect tho.

The "I'm not aware of any such research" should rule out any conclusion. Unawareness is only evidence of it self.

Personally im more worried about having my attentionspan cut into small chunks by endless notifications and having my sleep interupted.

I actually own the fancy rf measurment toys. Odly the most comfortable spot to sleep in the house also has the lowest measurments. Its sohh anecdotal, i know, i know..

Applications are open for YC Summer 2020

Guidelines | FAQ | Support | API | Security | Lists | Bookmarklet | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact