It was a skill honed and part of the fun of the game. Then in version 1.3 they removed it because it was a 'bug' -- they basically removed the mini-game of bunny-hopping and the first 30 seconds that were all about perfectly executing bunny hops to get into position were replaced by a monotonous boring walk.
Such a shame that the monotony of real-life is added to games.
Anyways, I think the author should try Overwatch -- it's one of the few contemporary widely played FPSs that doesn't take realism too seriously.
The devs, rather than patching it, incorporated skiing into Tribes 2 and has been a staple ever since. And also, while Counter Strike has become a massive success and has thousands of players today. Tribes (while it was successful at the time) has become a niche game that quickly weeds out newcomers and hardly anyone plays it anymore.
Not saying that there's a correlation, I just find it amusing.
Sadly, it was abandoned and taken over by cheaters. Also, it was never as moddable as the original Tribes was, and since there were no private servers, there was no way for the community to pick up the slack after Hi Rez abandoned it.
If you knew how to really ski well, and had the map mastery to apply it well, it almost felt like cheating sometimes because new players had almost no hope of keeping up.
I'm sure in today's world it would get patched out.
There is room in the world for hyper-realistic real-time raytracing games. But not a lot of room.
To any game developers reading this, my request to you is to please optimize for fun, especially at the expense of polish.
A good designer, though, should also be examining why that mechanic was fun, and how the same dynamics that led to it can be recreated in a way that’s fun for both the player and their opponent. Or even a different game built on different assumptions where those dynamics are accepted.
There’s often a lot more that goes into removing something like bunny hopping than just a desire for polish. To any player out there angry at the removal of their favorite mechanic, my request is to consider the whole game and the enjoyment of all the people who play it, even at the expense of the thing that’s fun for you.
The first mechanic is that while jumping, when you either hold down the A-button and move your mouse left at the right pace, or hold down the D-button and move your mouse right at the right pace, you will accelerate slightly, plus change your trajectory.
The second mechanic is that you don't just stop when you hit the ground, instead friction is applied to you in a very simplistic way. Also, when you jump at exactly the same tick at which you hit the ground, this friction won't even be applied.
Both mechanics together mean that you can reach theoretically unlimited velocity.
I'm not entirely sure what the changes in 1.3 were, but certainly both mechanics still exist in 1.6.
The first mechanic you can easily test on a local server, by typing "sv_gravity 0" into the console, then jumping into the air and performing the motions mentioned above - you can still reach unlimited speed.
The second mechanic is harder to test, but I'm pretty sure it still works. However, it might only work for a single time or something like that.
There is also "sv_airaccelerate" which somehow controls how much you accelerate with mechanic 1, but I'm not exactly sure how it works.
One thing though that I always mention when this comes up: Mechanic 1 doesn't just make gameplay better, it actually makes it more realistic too, and it should be implement in every shooter. "But I can't jump around corners in real life!" you might say, however I would argue that you actually can. We can do this because we can use both of our feet to manipulate our trajectory much more finely that we can in most games.
All mechanic one does is give us this lost freedom of motion back.
This is another thing that I think game designers often forget. When trying for a "realistic" game, you have to account for the fact that in the real world we have a lot more "bandwidth" than our computer monitors, sound, and input devices can offer. It is perfectly fine for a "realistic" game to offer some counterbalancing capabilities to address the unrealistic constraints of the game space. A HUD being a classic example that is generally included; it's a cute idea to try to build a game that doesn't need one, but they've mostly been disasters (couple of exceptions), because a HUD is one of those compensations.
Another example: I may not have a minimap in real life, but I do have proprioception, balance input as provided by my inner ears, a nearly 180 degree FOV (albeit with a lot of details and caveats, but I've got decades of experience dealing with those; my eyes saccade much more quickly and accurately than my mouselook even after quite of time working on the latter), tactile connections to the space even down to something as simple as feeling my feet hit the ground and the physical effort of walking. Staying oriented in real space is massively harder if we take those away (see also "people getting disoriented in zero gravity"). It's perfectly fine to have a minimap help me out.
Being able to fudge a trajectory a bit fits right in to that idea. In real life I've got all sorts of extra inputs to help me jump accurately, and years of experience in my body to help me know the likely consequences. Even a realistic game can afford to help me out a bit as I remote-control around the feelingless, proprioceptionless, tunnel-visioned, aurally-challenged, and so on robot that constitutes my player.
Besides the standard bomb maps, and the fun game dynamics created by this “bug”, there were hundreds of servers running surf_ maps and others that relied on hopping mechanics. The update threw a massive community in a tar pit.
Sees people hopping like preschoolers
"No thanks. I'm good. "
A bit of a self fulfilling statement there. I understand and appreciate that others found it fun, but such mechanics have always reduced my enjoyment, and I tend to avoid such games. Nothing wrong with either side of that, but one cant then claim the unanimity of enjoyment as meaningful.
I get that "realism" is a silly thing to discuss, not because it's good/bad, but because it is meaningless to try and distinguish the "changes from real life we like/want" from "changes from real life that hurt our enjoyment", particularly when we all have different tastes.
But all games that make gummy bear-style hopping over flat, unbroken land a common form of movement are personally visually jarring, and even as I welcome others to enjoy whatever games they want, I don't think my reaction is a terribly crazy reaction to have.
...Fortunately I'll likely die long before common human inhabitation of the moon, so I won't have to a reality I find jarring in this way :)
(real life is jarring enough already. Too much realism)
I never liked bunny-hopping.
Even someone who never heard of Counter-Strike could figure out that this is a false statement.
In the early days of the medium, there were a lot of hard constraints with regard to computing power, so game designers had to work with what they had to produce fun in efficient and creative ways. In other words, space invaders or super mario had no chance of achieving anything approaching realism given the hardware available at the time, so they had to focus on maximizing fun instead.
Later, beginning with Doom and expanding with the rise of 3D acceleration, we were wowed by the prospect of exploring 3D worlds in a way that felt familiar to navigating the real world, which gave rise to this implicit idea that achieving realism should be the goal of video games.
I remember discussing video games like this as a teenager: when FPS games introduced reloading as a mechanic, or when Half-Life got rid of floating weapons and health kits in favor of objects which lay there on the ground diagetically like they would in real life, or when Halo only let us hold two weapons at the same time, we talked about these developments in the terms that they were obviously steps forward, because they were more realistic. Often the "best graphics" are also conflated with those which are the most photo-realistic.
But more recently, we've started to round a corner where people have started to look back, and realize that realism isn't necessarily the goal of games, and is often orthogonal to fun or other redeeming qualities. After all there are a lot of parts of real life which are not actually fun, and if we simulate the violent setting of many video games with perfect realism, it probably would not be very fun to experience bleeding out from a bullet wound in an accurate way. More recently, games have gotten a bit more fantasy back in, and are more unapologetic about revealing their medium.
I think it's similar in some ways to what we saw in European art movements. For hundreds of years, people tried to paint reality with ever increasing fidelity. But sometime in the classical period, the problem of how to represent light, shadow and geometry in accurate perspective in paint became a solved problem, and thus it was no longer interesting. Later movements, like impressionism and later modernism and post-modernism threw realism aside and focused on pushing the medium itself forward in whatever way ended up being the most compelling.
Cries in Team Fortress 2
TF2 has been around long enough to have the weight of history.
Escape from Tarkov is the new trending game and the market leaders are still Fortnite CSGO and League.
Quake-like games embraced bunny-hopping because I guess they were already pretty "unrealistic" whilst Counter-Strikes entire schtick was about the "realism" that it brought to the scene.
And bunny-hopping wasn't removed until 1.4, where they added a movement penalty every time you jump. It was softened in 1.5 after a lot of discord from the player base.
But when it comes to keeping things simple and enjoyable Overwatch really brought things back for me. For somebody who does not have time to invest tons of time into gaming and don't really care anymore, I love that in Overwatch there is no messing around with picking up weapons. Just learn the weapons your character comes with.
The cartoony look of overwatch makes the worlds a lot easier to navigate. Too much realism makes it hard to pick out enemies, objectives etc.
Also too realistic weapons, limits the variety of strategies one can employ.
I care more about internal consistency than absolute realism. Fortnite does not do it for me. You got these sort of realistic weapons but then then people can build walls hand houses in record time, in the middle of a fight. It just seems really dumb.
Although this seems acceptable to me in Minecraft, but against I guess it is the internal consistency. The graphics and everything in Minecraft suggests there is nothing odd about building a wall in the middle of a fight.
Ultimately it wasn't part of the intended game design, despite being a bit of a fun imaginary minigame within the greater 5v5, and I agree it was the best choice for all the mods around that time (CS wasn't the only one you could bhop in).
To add to this anecdote though, knife scraping on a wall when the round is down to 1v1 was almost always universally "come knife fight me" and for the many times I've seen players arrange this duel I rarely see either try to "cheat" and shoot the other.
Later, Battlefield 2142 had you spawn in via drop pods which you had extremely limited control over so you could try to land behind cover, it was discovered if you rapidly moved the mouse you could move farther. If you had a mouse that you could change the DPI on the fly you could crank it and actually travel across an entire map. Enter the pod surfing advantage.
With some skill you could basically land wherever you wanted to within feet, dropping behind enemy lines gave you an insane advantage. You could actually drop at the very back of an enemy controlled area, behind their most distant respawn and just waste the other team.
You could also use pod surfing to reach elevated positions that you could not get to otherwise. You could just sit in your sniper perch laying waste to unsuspecting people below. Better you could get up there, then have a teammate land as resupply or as a medic and effectively stay there the rest of the map dealing death. The clan I played with was very good at pod surfing, any time a guy would get in one of those positions I'd steer over to them and drop health or resupply depending on what they needed and then I'd just suicide and respawn elsewhere until they needed resupply again and I'd kamikaze and head surf back to them. Sometimes we'd organize sessions with another clan that was similarly adept at pod surfing and we'd either go play on their server or they'd come to ours and stuff would get ridiculous. Poor unsuspecting randoms would join the server and be like 'what the hell is even going on?!'. I think of all the FPS I've played, BF 2142 was probably the bulk of my most memorable FPS experiences, thanks entirely to that bug. I joined that clan because they saw me pod surfing on their server and extended an invite. I played with them for 3 BF games total before we all sorta went our own ways.
Fairly quickly servers with active mods would ban you for it and eventually they implemented something to seriously nerf pod surfing but man, it was fun while it lasted.
We also played a lot of actionquake later. We made maps especially for jumping with this technique but I can't remember ever calling it bunnyjumping.
Funny, yesterday my daughter found how to move faster in some game by pressing strafe and forward at the same time. Had some fun to explain how that works with math in programming :-)
"The main difference between the two is that Bunny Hopping requires the player to release the forward movement key immediately upon strafing."
In other words, if you were playing Q1/Quake World, to gain speed, you would jump and only press left and right. To keep going straight you would flick your mouse in the opposite direction that you were pressing on the keyboard. Although there are a bunch of other small tricks. In Quake 3 you would be required to press forward and left/right, unless you were playing something like CPMA. You also had more air control in something like Q1/Quake World.
It is pretty interesting from a gaming and programming perspective :). Also, not about mechanics, but Q2 CTF was really fun at the time :D
I'm not mentioning this to be a jerk, just that I totally understand how the movement can make someone addicted to a game.
Side note, when id software handed off maintenance of Quake 2 to Threewave, Zoid added full air control ala QW to Q2. Suddenly I loved the game. Alas, Q2ers almost rioted and it was changed back.
Edit: and recording actions so you can do some hi-def video recording later.
Apart from proper game-breaking bugs (fountain hooks, bottle crow), everything else stays mostly untouched.
A vast majority of hero balance often came down to limitations of the WC3 engine, that were carried on into Source2 because they had now become hero defining traits.
"Admin he's doing it sideways"
Great example of this:
Don’t ask me how I know this.
It was quite a while since I last played a 3D shooter (likely, HL2 Episode 2), so I don't really know if there is something out there that has a similar feel to good old Doom games.
Give it a whirl, and make sure you choose The Olde Knight or the Steppe Prince. And please reply if you do try - it's a lost masterpiece that the original mount and blade should've been
The Serious Sams, Bulletstorm, Painkiller (and others) have taken the Doom experience of finding a horde of somethings and killing them into the modern era, each with their own take.
Serious Sam expanded the levels and monster counts to a grotesque scale, allowing for perverse satisfaction in watching and killing off a distant and vast sea of fodder running towards you.
Bulletstorm lightened the mood, and as a precursor to the Gears of War series, was the first in my mind to make the action movie tropes of kicking and punching things, coupled with cheesy banter, genuinely pleasing.
Painkiller took the heavy metal influences, and merged them with some of the great settings from the previous century of horror novels and coupled it with immersive and creative level and weapon design.
I definitely believe that Doom was the original seminal piece in the genre, a Tolkien-esque work. But mankind has improved on the experience in the years since. Try those out too.
That's not to say that I didn't enjoy them, but they're definitely different beasts rather than improvements on Doom. In my view that's kind of like saying that Gauntlet is an improvement of the experience in Ultima.
Playing with a few friends, the atmosphere of watching your team mates far away in the distance, launching salvos of rockets up at some giant monster, which is even further away in the distance, while running non-stop from hordes of screaming enemies, to the tune of mad techno beats and endless explosions has yet to be beaten in my mind.
it was a lot of fun, especially the last levels where the horde was immense (and the computer didn't freeze)
The textures, the level design, the enemies, the sound, the music — they all band together to say: "you are the last human to stand against Satan's forces". This makes single-player interesting.
This is then felt in Quake I and II, in Raven Software's Hexen, in Painkiller.
OTOH Serious Sam makes fun of it, turning the whole thing into a jolly and grotesque arcade. I think it's a different lineage, just using the same technology of a 3D shooter by a coincidence.
I loved play Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, and after a long lull, the new Doom games (Doom after Doom 3 and likely Doom Eternal).
But for me the hell theme just doesn't work. Chalk it up to my evangelical upbringing, my dislike of horror in general, or whatever, the thematic aspects just don't work for me.
It's immensely frustrating because I truly adore the gameplay, but I find it incredibly difficult to play a game where the enemies are demons of various sorts, and the environment is some kind of 'hell'.
I have the same issue with the premium Souls-like games. I find it really difficult to play any of the Dark Souls or Bloodborne.
I really love the gameplay, and I'd really love to see a Doom game that isn't horror-style Doom, a Souls game that isn't Souls-type-terrifying-enemies.
Any recommendations? I wish I could get past the 'esthetics' of said games, but if I can't: what are my options?
Maybe the Return to Castle Wolfenstein? Quake II? Or, well, Unreal?
For example, I can handle Nintendo-style cutesy graphics even if the gameplay is really difficult (Celeste, for one).
It's actually made with the original doom engine.
Although recently I found Nier: Automata, which scratches a similar itch with a more sci-fi theme (and a dash of horriffic creatures, still).
Bulletstorm did not predate Gears of Wars. It came out way later.
Beyond that, I think it's worth examining the motives of the player. Why do players want to cheese arenas in the first place, when more aggressive play-styles are more fun? Why are players drawn to conservative styles of gameplay, and what can be done to change that? I think if a shooter game is well designed, the player will be eager to jump into the fray as soon as they can, and the game will reward them for that sort of aggression. Doom 2016 does a great job of this; aggressive gameplay is rewarded with more abundant health and ammo drops. Conservative gameplay isn't rewarded; moving slow gets you killed, and staying far away from the enemies gets you killed.
I'm not sure if the original Ghost Recon was actually this advanced, but it felt like enemies got more accurate as they got more evidence of your position. You could find a good sniping spot and take out a couple enemies as they fired in your general direction, but the next enemy that came over the ridge (after hearing your shots) would immediately kill you with their first shot. The solution was to use the rest of your squad. Once you got a couple kills on your sniper, you'd hide completely and switch to an assault in another position. The enemy would run over the ridge, but they'd only have improved accuracy against the sniper. That made them an easy fight for the assault.
Translated into the position graphs in the gamesutra link, there was a penalty for fighting from the same node for too long. This results in an inherent incentive to capture new territory and turns the "safe" hallway into a deathtrap.
It's very different than Doom though and feels grander in some ways.
thanks to 3d realms we reached the stage were duke nukem 3d was dethroned from the cheesy shooter ladder :(
- moving fast in non realistic patterns? check
- not being dragged down by realistic limitations? check
Its network stack is garbage, but from any other point of view (speed, strategy, system, weapons, visuals and music) it’s I think the best FPS we have in this generation. And personally I’d say ever.
We could really use more bright and colorful future-fi, as opposed to the usual bleak and dark dystopian “cyberpunk” aesthetic.
On the other hand, games that seem to take visual design cues from metal albums (looking specifically at games like Dark Souls and Bloodborne) tend to have an all-grey look that quickly bores me.
Less of a mod scene and more of people coming up with new approaches to the existing weapons.
In a way it’s sad we don’t get mods, the silver lining is the game continued growing and getting tweaked for 2 years, with new stages, a whole new mode, new weapons added every few months even 2 years after launch. As of now there’s just hope about a Splatoon 3 for perhaps the next Switch.
I was particularly fond of the 'trick jumping' maps. Spend hundreds of hours just on those.
I used to play the standard maps, mostly. So elegantly designed, so beautifully balanced. Just loved playing an engineer.
I've enjoyed the 2016 rendition of DOOM though, also the multiplayer with silly game-modes like "football" / freeze tag. I'd have liked an "instagib"-style game mode though, that was my favourite in JK2
Back then I used to wish I could keep my progression. Now everything is global progression and I really don't have time to burn leveling up.
Side note: Loved the mods on RTCW as well. Being the cow on gold rush and being fed gold and super slow.
There's also at least one another unrelated "2.5D" use, when the world is 3D, but the player moves on a strictly 2D plane.
This is the more accurate one. Doom maps are 2D polygons, each polygon has a ceiling height and floor height property.
Eg, a staircase is just rectangles, beside each other, with raised floors.
There must be a better adjective.
I tried playing year or two ago but they 1) removed the original q3 audio assets (wtf?) And introduced auto-strafing...
Maybe people moved to Quake Champions? Quake live was a great game. Also is used to be browser based when it started!!
After Quake 3 came Quake 4, Enemy Territory: Quake wars, and Quake champions.
And the gameplay is fast. You move fast, shoot fast and die fast if not careful. The latest Doom felt like your character was walking through deep mud.
I think Doom 2016 is a pretty good and especially gory Serious Sam game. But it’s certainly not Doom.
Sounds a bit biased. My favorite FPS (pubg) has all of that, and it is what makes the game enjoyable. There is even bullet velocity and drop, so you need to account for moving targets and parabolic paths.
But that is perhaps the authors point, because games like EFT are certainly not games for everyone, while PUBG can be fun to most people.
- Don't want to keep track of magazines which they can swap and which you have to reload slowly bullet by bullet, they'd rather press reload and end up with a full magazine in their weapon again.
- Don't want to think about ammo types of which some will be utterly impractical in certain situations or about bullet penetration. They'd rather have 1 ammo type that fits in their gun that does 20 damage per hit.
- Don't want to deal with their character having a broken leg or arm, being dehydrated, hungry, bleeding, in pain, or suffering from some other medical condition after a firefight that requires attention and will impair their ability to see, aim, walk, etc. They'd rather "use medkit" and be done with it.
- Don't want to think about weapon/gear durability or taking their weapon apart/changing parts in a weapon they will likely lose on their next raid anyways.
All that stuff is something for people who enjoy more of a survival type gameplay. For everyone else systems like gear, health, reloading, ammo etc. are usually simplified to be fun.
On the other hand, systems you don't usually have to take away from without sacrificing fun are noise (step sounds, reloading sounds, moving in vegetation, moving slow, moving fast etc. etc.) and ballistics (bullet drop, ricochet, bullet penetration).
It clearly also tickles that part of the psychology that makes you want to keep playing if you're lucky and get a jackpot of good gear when you first land.
That's where he's getting at at the end of what you quoted. Non-realism is necessarily a part of any game environment, in this genre at least.
I never played the Doom games when I was a kid and I've been working my way through the whole series. Finished Doom VFR and Doom 3 BFG Edition in VR, done most of the original Doom, and almost finished DOOM (2016). They're great fun and the DOOM (2016) soundtrack is amazing.
I don't mind the the numbers of word/line in my full HD 15.6" laptop screen, in fact, and I actually hated the 80 words/line pattern like articles at medium.com. Are you on 4k wide somehow?
Everything has a context, and learning to understand where something came from is a skill that is not just useful in appreciating old video games, but is broadly applicable in pretty much any human interaction.
I see this a lot in regards to older games especially things like doom or goldeneye. I understand when it comes to graphics or some tedious gameplay features and controls but I find from an actual core gameplay standpoint, a lot of older games hold up a lot better than more modern games. I'd rather manage ammo, while searching obscure tunnels for secrets and keys shooting at blurry pixels than press 'space' for the next qte between beautiful 30 minute cutscenes after the umpteenth tutorial guided linear coridoor I receive the next shiny trophy for walking down where the only risk is having to restart 3 seconds earlier from the last auto save point with a possible bonus for failing too many times accompanied with a link to the ingame store where I can purchase ammo or armour for the price of a cup of coffee.
In the 90s there were a lot of crappy games too. I think there’s good games in every time period, and trying to pretend that the past has a monopoly on core gameplay is only remembering the best games of the past.
The best example off the top of my head is the speed running community. The most popular game is super mario 64, which came out in 96. It has a smoothness to the controls that is almost never achieved even in modern games.
This is one neat area, where the old Infocom games are well respected (see "Get Lamp" documentary on YouTube) today, but it is well recognized that the technology and text game complexity has reached entirety new heights that have pushed the boundaries forward immensely.
They also don’t constantly nag you or hold your hand.
Fwiw I don't think the og star wars movies require nearly the same suspension of standards that something like Doom does. Maybe for sfx buffs but I think most people go to movies for the human elements. That's not the same with videogames because of how the medium is interactive.
A lot of music from the 80s is good in the way you described. Thriller however, is an album that stood the test of time.
Those are both games that have a really strong core and are still close to perfection in their genres.
I think that the FPS genre has had big variations in the past 25 years though, so there’s a lot of small ways for Doom to age.
Sam and Max was released in 1993 though I'd argue that it's hurt much more by the graphics than Doom is.
On console? A fair few, with Secrets of Mana being the pick of the bunch. It's still a fantastic game in 2020. After that you have Super Mario Kart and Super Mario All-Stars.
LeChuck's revenge, from 1991, holds up even better.
“Command HQ” and “Pirates” from MicroProse, Zaxxon on Colecovision, Starflight on PC are fabulous games.
I used to love adventure games, but most of them aged terribly.
But yes, I think Mega Man X has aged fantastically, as in - the developers spent a really large amount of time on good level design and on teaching the player how the game works, so you could pick it up for the very first time in 2020 and get into it immediately. And no, I haven't played this when it came out first either.
I think this highlights exactly what I'm talking about, look at the little things they are doing design wise, it's truly brilliant:
(Sorry, I know the video is meant to be a "funny" one, but it does make some very very good points about video game design)
You might have to enable performace mode if it lags.
Additionally, because everyone will have different trouble spots, a game which has smoothed out the frustrations for the greatest number of people is really a game which doesn't provide much challenge. The worst culprits here would be the games of the mid-2000s, with their heavy cinematics, and extremely low difficulty. Conversely, these games fare worse over time than something like classic Doom: the gameplay was never there in the first place, and the graphics only wowed people 1.5 decades ago.
But, I'd absolutely disagree that nostalgia is the only thing that makes classic Doom fun. And, it's the crux of what I meant when I said "games don't age." There is a style of gameplay there which I believe is fun at any period in time. There's a lot I could say here, but I'd argue that if a game is only interesting when it's novel and it's cutting edge, then the core gameplay was never good to begin with. (for example, Chess is pretty archaic, but the idea that Chess was only fun back when it was really first popularized is similarly false.)
<div id="cursor386" style="right: 643px; bottom: 346px;">(box glyph stripped out by HN)</div>
Appears to be from https://github.com/kristopolous/BOOTSTRA.386
Here's a 160 person CTF game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr5pA9t1Z0A
Here's some highlights from the CTF league: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o41hDzqaXpU
Highly encourage getting involved (www.doomworld.com), it's a blast and the barrier to entry is basically zero.
Some coverage about it here: