> The physical infrastructure projects enumerated above occurred before 1970 to a disproportionate degree. Why? Some works containing hypotheses:
Is there a Western country where this isn't a problem? Germany has a bunch of engineering projects that are either completely held up/cancelled by red tape or are just mismanaged so badly that the cost overruns and delays can be staggering.
It's worth reading http://chinamediaproject.org/2020/01/27/dramatic-actions/ and watching https://youtu.be/7OEqybiGdaA for first-hand experience of the incompetence and evilness of their government and how they've been handling the situation.
If you've been to China or some other third-world country then I'm sure you've seen first hand the living conditions these workers endure, the safety standards of their work, etc. I've had friends whose families were kicked out of their homes to make room for shopping malls.
Why are they even rushing to build these hospitals in the first place? There are plenty of empty buildings that they could turn into temporary hospitals instead. All of this seems to be just for show..
Yes, I have, and my conclusion is it’s nothing like what fear mongers tell us what it’s like (btw you got a nice single-purpose account there so the credibility is low in my books). Construction workers’ living conditions are on the lower end for sure, but often an improvement over rural life (which is why they’re drawn to cities in the first place), and even rural living conditions isn’t that bad from what I’ve seen. Of course there are huge gaps between “the third world” or even different regions in China so what I’ve seen is far from the worst possible.
> whose families were kicked out of their homes to make room for shopping malls.
I heard these people are usually compensated very well by local standards. In fact, I heard there’s a whole class of people in Beijing, Shanghai, etc. who became multi-millionaires because their old family homes were bought up for new development projects.
> There are plenty of empty buildings that they could turn into temporary hospitals instead.
And none of your arguments justified the snail pace of taking a year to build a tiny little building, when even by U.S. standards it could have gone a lot faster (otherwise an apartment building would easily take a decade), unless your human rights include dragging projects out in order to be paid more for the same amount of work.
Actually, I'd say it's far worse. If you talk to people that aren't active on reddit and whatnot, then they will often have no idea what's happening in Xinjiang. And if they don't even know what's happening in Xinjiang then they of course won't know about organ harvesting of political prisoners, how people who spread information the government doesn't appreciate will end up like this guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vspukvqxTSg), etc. Foreigners wishing to live in China will also experience a lot of discrimination and hardship that they wouldn't have to endure in other Asian countries. For example, a foreigner will be denied entry to 9/10 apartment/hotels if they don't stay at 4-5 star hotels, or go through agencies that have a "green book". It will also be much more difficult to be able to live there as a digital nomad or whatnot compared to other Asian countries.
That's also why I use VPNs and multiple accounts on all social media sites. If I didn't then I'd risk a lengthy jail sentence or death if I ever got caught by the Chinese authorities.
> I heard these people are usually compensated very well by local standards. In fact, I heard there’s a whole class of people in Beijing, Shanghai, etc. who became multi-millionaires because their old family homes were bought up for new development projects.
That's not what I've heard, and I know at least one friend said their family couldn't afford to buy a new place with the compensation and was thus forced out of the city. But I'm sure there are people who fit both descriptions.. regardless, imagine how you would feel if you were forced out of your home that you didn't want to leave.
> Construction workers’ living conditions are on the lower end for sure, but often an improvement over rural life (which is why they’re drawn to cities in the first place), and even rural living conditions isn’t that bad from what I’ve seen. Of course there are huge gaps between “the third world” or even different regions in China so what I’ve seen is far from the worst possible.
These people are often forced to live at the construction sites, or share a tiny room and toilet with a bunch of other people. They won't be able to see their families for many months. Their living conditions are worse than the living conditions of prisoners in Scandinavian countries. Not just with regard to living conditions, but also with regard to being able to see their families and loved ones. It's also very common to see them sleep on the street, under a bridge, etc. during times where they aren't working.
> Citation needed.
Have you ever been in a big city such as Wuhan during CNY? We also know 5 million left before the lockdown (great job CPC), and do you really think people should be going to school, gyms, factories, etc. during the epidemic?
> And none of your arguments justified the snail pace of taking a year to build a tiny little building, when even by U.S. standards it could have gone a lot faster (otherwise an apartment building would easily take a decade), unless your human rights include dragging projects out in order to be paid more for the same amount of work.
I think I did, but without knowing the exact situation then it's difficult to be more precise. I assume you're a software engineer, so let's look at it from this perspective.. have you ever worked on projects that should only take a week but ended up taking many months? I'm often assigned work that I could solve in a couple of hours but I instead spend a few days or a week, because if I didn't then I'd feel too exhausted and risk burnout. I assume almost everyone here do the same, and I imagine it's no different for construction workers where different projects are given different priority.
I've also seen plenty of construction work in China and third-world countries move at a snail pace, and construction work in developed countries (e.g. fixing a road in the city center) be completed within a day.
Where the heck are doctors and nurses going to come from? Do they have excess trained people just hanging out at the mall?
God knows how many other hospitals and construction projects were thrown into chaos by crews being pulled from all over the place.
This is the kind of reaction seen when too much power lies with one guy up the heirarchy and he panics and overrules all his underlings. Wants to give an appearance of solving a problem much more than actually solving it.
I have seen this kind of stuff happening at global software crisis centers, where things escalate quickly and some guy up the hierarchy panics. Has too much power and just overrules everyone below. "We have to do something! Right now!!!" Bangs table!!! Underlings without push back obey. Those who do are pushed out and resources are mindlessly pulled from all over and massively squandered. With the PR dept blaring away about decisive leadership.
China has all the ingredients for that kind of decision making. The bug will die out in a couple weeks and then this will be a standing monument to how the herd reacts under stress.
Apparently thousands of medical professionals have already been sent from other provinces. There are millions of medical professionals in China so sending even 1% would be night and day difference locally while not throwing other hospitals into chaos.
Throwing other construction projects into chaos? That’s utter nonsense, no normal construction projects would be active during the Chinese New Year period.
> Where the heck are doctors and nurses going to come from? Do they have excess trained people just hanging out at the mall?
I'm sure there are regions that aren't facing even remotely the same crisis as Wuhan, where they can divert resources from. It's really not a huge deal. Unless you want to make the claim that all of China is going to succumb to this such that a diversion of resources wouldn't be possible at all? That's a stretch.
(I was skeptical myself initially. Looks like it's actually coming together.)
Some people in the West suggested to use an existing school or sports stadium, and while this may work in the West, the question is: Does Wuhan even have such a public facility available?
Some (unverified) reports were already suggesting that the city’s existing hospitals and facilities were already overburdened. At least something like this could help keep the very sick isolated from the others, and allow them to gracefully recover. Or if they are too far gone, then it would keep them isolated from those that can be saved.
I agree, I think this will blow over in a few months, and they’ll get it contained, while they starve out the virus. And that might only have been possible, because the central government mandated the quarantine, which did more to just inform people to keep their distance from others, and to wear protective gear while in public. We’ll see in a few months how effective this all is.
It's also amazing how inneficient the whole construction medium is with human resources.
Everytime I see construction going I see most of people are literally doing _nothing_ and it's not like their lazy - human resource distribution just sucks.
In Hong Kong there were protests against the gov't using an apartment building of sorts for quarantine, because the building was within 500m of residences. One protester even set fire to the lobby of the building.
I think I came across this on HN many, many years ago!
From this paper
"The index patient in the second super-spreader outbreak was an individual on hemodialysis for chronic renal failure who had diarrhea and, on two occasions, stayed with his brother in Block E in the Amoy Gardens residential complex.30, 31 Amoy Gardens has 19 residential blocks, with eight apartments on each of the 33 floors.31 In several bathrooms from block E, it was reported that the U-shaped traps linking the vertical drainage pipes, known as risers, to the sanitary fixtures, did not function properly. As a result, when water flowed down, the backflow from the risers was able to generate aerosols and spread pathogens into individual bathrooms. In addition, powerful window fans installed by residents in many bathrooms created a significant negative pressure that amplified the aerosol backflow. In the Amoy Gardens complex outbreak, 329 individuals were infected and 42 died."
Those would have to be decontaminated. The risks of infected sewage or tissue winding up in muncipal systems, possibly backing up onto streets (or into buildings) would ... not go so well.
I'm curious about backstory and disruption here.
Edit - Found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypti_cB0JTc
I was thinking of making a filter of the video stream which would blur out sensitive strings if it encountered them...
I suppose I could just use an offscreen terminal for environment variables and secrets, but it's bound to be leaked at some point.
Coronavirus is only deadly to elderly with existing medical problems. Its not worth shutting down the economy over. Reducing this population would also entail a reduction in healthcare and pension expenses, benefiting younger workers.
Now you have a virus with a mortality rate of 2-3%, so it'll kill a lot more people once it begins to spread. The sick people from the coronavirus also needs a lot more medical work and efforts to separate them from the rest of the populace.