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Ask HN: How do you process payments?
245 points by c0restraint on Jan 29, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 158 comments
This is how YOU have chosen to do it. Let us know if it is physical or virtual.

I found an old post from 2009 about this, wondering what the answers will be a decade later : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=526517

For my consulting business (average invoice size of anywhere from $15k-$125k), we exclusively accept paper checks, ACH (either as a direct credit for larger companies set up to do that,) or QuickBooks Online, which makes ACH relatively trivial, and they charge basically $1 to process it. Can't beat that with a stick.

For our clients, our preference is still Stripe, though we had a client deplatformed by them because their bank had problems with the product. (In our case, specifically, adult toys.) We had spoken with Stripe at length before investing in using them, and confirmed that this would be acceptable, as they had other adult toy companies on their platform, but Wells Fargo, paragons of fucking virtue that they are, decided to step in an try to get extremely and very awkwardly hands on with our specific products. (They tried to dictate what colors we could and couldn't offer, for instance. It was unpleasant, and we recognized we needed to leave immediately.)

We ended up back at a higher-risk merchant service provider, though we're paying typical rates because we fulfill an actual, physical product (not, say, porn), and our chargeback rate is very low. Still a frustrating experience, and yet another reason to hate Wells.

>... but Wells Fargo, paragons of fucking virtue that they are, decided to step in an try to get extremely and very awkwardly hands on with our specific products. (They tried to dictate what colors we could and couldn't offer, for instance. It was unpleasant, and we recognized we needed to leave immediately.)

That's bad. It deserves media attention.

> we had a client deplatformed by them because their bank had problems with the product. (In our case, specifically, adult toys.)

What kind of bank would do that, and why?

I don’t comprehend the logic that would drive such a decision.

Wait until you hear about what PayPal stops.

PayPal isn’t a bank and is known for that behaviour. I understand Wells Fargo is a bank.

> PayPal isn’t a bank

They are:


In the EU you either work with a bank or you need to be a bank to do what Paypal does. In the US not (yet).

In the US, are PayPal registered as a bank in the same way Wells Fargo are?

In EU they are. Dunno about the states. In the beginning they were not, that I know. But by now... I heard that even Google and Apple were interested in becoming banks (not sure if they followed up on that).

Some specific product/service categories have higher rates of fraud and/or other problems, and it just does not worth it for them.

Good point.

It still makes zero sense for me why more fraud would happen specifically at adult toy stores compared to other categories.

I just don’t get how banks make their decisions. Mine declined my credit card when I tried to add it to Patreon. I called the bank and the rep told me that online subscriptions can be fraudulent and that a bank needed to protect its customers. I told her Patreon was certainly not a scam site. She replied that she’d never even heard of Patreon and that she wasn’t going to white-list Patreon for me and “jeopardize tens of thousands of other customers.”

I feel I’m never going to get behind banks.

Stripe whenever it's possible. However, without PayPal one is missing a bug chunk of people who cannot pay with credit card. Hence, I offer both. Since I implemented both (again) over the last month, here a list of my resources:

- Stripe Elements [0] + Stripe Webhook [1]

- Stripe Checkout [2] + Stripe Webhook [1]

- PayPal Smart Payment Buttons [3]

And one repository:

- basic Stripe Checkout with Webhook in React + Express [4]

Personally I preferred Stripe Checkout over Elements, because they take care about the look and feel.

- 0 https://github.com/stripe/react-stripe-elements

- 1 https://stripe.com/docs/webhooks

- 2 https://stripe.com/docs/payments/checkout

- 3 https://developer.paypal.com/docs/checkout/

- 4 https://github.com/rwieruch/react-express-stripe

Could you elaborate a bit for which reasons you prefer Stripe over PayPal and why it makes sense to offer both? I am currently trying to decide on a payment service but having a hard time making a sensible decision. The way I understand it PayPal supports more countries and may thus be accessible to more customers. Fees between Stripe and PayPal seem to be identical for US transactions; for international transactions things tend to get more complicated.

Not op, but my 2 cents.

Stripe's developer UX is godly, from api docs to the dashboard it's something all B2B companies that offer APIs should aspire to.

Secondly, with stripe elements it can be styled into the website much nicer than PayPal buttons.

PayPal does support more countries and still has some brand recognition with customers as "a safe way to pay online", but between the bad UX for both business and developer, as well as their tendency to randomly freeze accounts, we try to dissuade clients away from it unless it's a significant revenue stream.

> Secondly, with stripe elements it can be styled into the website much nicer than PayPal buttons.

Seriously, does anybody care about the style used on a website when making a payment?

Also, as a user, I'd rather see a single consistent style so I have some confirmation about what bank I'm dealing with.

> Seriously, does anybody care about the style used on a website when making a payment?

Stakeholders tend to.

Style may have been a poor choice of wording, as I meant the workflow as well as aesthetics. Keeping the user on the site and having complete control of the checkout process can lead to better conversion rates and up-selling than throwing them to a payment provider and maybe getting them sent back.

> as a user, I'd rather see a single consistent style so I have some confirmation about what bank I'm dealing with

Which is one of the reasons I listed to include PayPal, as the logo is well recognised.

Having a disjointed UI is a huge risk of dropping conversions. So yeah, it does matter.

Keeping it short: Stripe's API is just a dream from a developer's perspective and I don't agree with many things PayPal as a company did in the past. However, as you mentioned, PayPal reaches a wider audience world wide than Stripe. Also even though people would be able to use Stripe from a customer perspective, for many there is still this familiarity with PayPal I guess.

I forgot about this one, but if you want to see a full integration of Stripe and PayPal with a React checkout form, head over here [0]. Working on this right now :)

[0] https://github.com/rwieruch/nextjs-firebase-authentication

>Personally I preferred Stripe Checkout over Elements, because they take care about the look and feel.

Stripe Checkout force you to gave client email to stripe. With Elements you can just use stripe for card processing (with zipcode of course).

Stripe checkout handles sending a receipt though iirc? So it's not like the email is winding up on a shadowy marketing list run by them.

We use Chargebee backed by Stripe.

We've been quite happy with Chargebee overall and would recommend them. The only downside is their customer support is very bizarre sometimes and a bit frustrating.

For example, they limit API access to my own (events) data to the last N months. I contacted and asked them to remove the restriction, and they said that wasn't possible because the data was "archived". I pointed out that their UI allowed me to see all the data and their page loaded quickly so clearly the data is close at hand. They then said they'd give me access to all my data over the API for one week. I told them I'm not going to build a script that will be broken in a week and instead will just have to scrape their website - they seemed happy with that resolution.

What value do you get from a middle man between you and the raw Stripe API? Why recommend them?

From what you describe it just seems like a hassle with them acting as gatekeeper to your own historical transaction records.

Customers need invoices, A/R tracking, recurring payments, line items on an invoice, billing for multiple entities, adhoc products/add-ons - a billing system and a way to process payments are separate things.

I believe Stripe does more and more of this stuff, but it isn't cheap and in our experience Chargebee has perfected a lot of that functionality.

Exactly. I find myself wondering why Stripe is still in the picture, seems like they're doing the easy part.

We use the above-mentioned things, and they also take care of providing a UI where customers can change their plan, cancel it, download PDF invoices. Upon plan changes, they deal with proration. They send dunning emails for failed charges and cancel the plan after N retries. You can set up coupons, discounts, trials, credit, refunds, welcome emails, etc. through them.

+ VAT management, self-serve portal etc. Chargebee is really great

same here

Stripe only allows access to the last 30 days of events, it sounds like this 3rd party is offering a service of collecting that for longer (probably among other things).

What do you mean last 30 days of events? I use Stripe's API's daily and you can go back much further than that.


> List events, going back up to 30 days.

If you're able to go further than that you may be paying extra for it.

Now, if you have the event id then you'll be able to pull it, but you can't simply list them out unless that documentation is lying.

Founder of Chargebee here. Thanks for the feedback and this broken experience doesn't make sense. Will check with the team. We will take it up to fix it. Sorry!

Sounds good! Chargebee and Heroku are the 2 paid services that have saved us the most time. I'm a champion of your service.

While I have your attention, some unsolicited feedback: Chargebee's core is great (and that's what we care most about), but a lot of the UX is kind of whacky and the new redesign of the Customer Portal and Signout flow was also a bit whacky and we won't be upgrading.

Last thing, small pet-peeve of mine: password rotation is annoying and is an outdated practice. Both Microsoft[1] and the FTC[2] are encouraging people to stop using it. It ends up wasting my time because I can never remember what I've incremented the last digit to (I now track it in a file). I've given your support that feedback, but doubt anything will happen unless you give the order.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/06/micro...

[2] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/techftc/2016/03/time-r...

Thank you. Noted. Shared feedback with the team to review the password policy. Could you please give some specific feedback on the UX for customer portal and signout flow? We can setup a 15 min zoom call with you to understand your challenges. I will reach out to you via email if that's OK with you.

For sure! Just emailed you.

Please clarify whether Chargebee supports custom hybrid plans (e.g., Per Seat + Usage models in Stripe terminology, which, correspondingly, would approximately be equal to a combination of Per Unit + Volume + Tiered models [1]). If Yes, please create or point to relevant documentation; if No, do you have plans for implementing such capability?

[1] https://www.chargebee.com/docs/plans.html#pricing-attributes

Chargebee looks really promising but the pricing of minimum $250 per month feels way too steep for bootstrapped businesses that are just getting started, and a billing system feels like something I'd want to decide on at the beginning and have it scale with my business rather than starting with something basic and then have to refactor to something else later once the business starts gaining steam.

Anyone have recommendations for similar services that have a lower price of entry?

Looks like they have a free tier for the first 50k in revenue: https://www.chargebee.com/launch/

They have a free tier up to $50k in revenue that I’ve used successfully. Hosted checkout, strong API, etc.

I operate a "electronically supplied services" hobby company, https://webhook.site, and I just didn't want to deal with VAT payments to individual EU member countries. So I switched from Stripe to Paddle, who handle all the VAT payments for me, take a fee and give me a lump sum. EU just has way too much bureaucracy for small-medium sized companies. I'm also using Patreon which is similar (they also handle VAT and subscriptions), but it seems most people prefer Paddle to Patreon.

Tangentially, I'd recommend everyone to stay away from Paypal. You will lose your money or your account sooner or later. Let someone else (like Paddle) handle Paypal payments and that risk.

FastSpring is a similar alternative.

Damn this is a cool product. Bookmarking for future use.

Stripe when possible, but for a recent project I’m using Dwolla, which operates strictly via ACH (which makes it US-only).

The problem with Stripe is they have a large list of prohibited businesses, which mainly is inherited from the credit card networks as I understand it. Even if you’re a perfectly legal and legitimate business, if you fall under one of these broad categories you can’t use Stripe’s platform (even if you only use their ACH product and don’t touch credit cards). PayPal has a similar list.

The credit card networks justify it by claiming certain categories of business are riskier (and I’m sure some are). But then you see how a lot of these categories may have come from Operation Chokepoint, chosen by unelected bureaucrats seemingly without any evidence.

Personally it disturbs me that so many legitimate businesses are severely hamstrung from collecting payments online because of extremely opaque decisions by an oligopoly of payment networks.

But about Dwolla - it’s not quite as smooth as Stripe; you have to build out your own customer onboarding screens, and production plans are priced through a sales rep rather than a SaaS-y paygo model. But I feel much more in control from the business end of things using them.

I've been selling a SaaS product for the last four years. Originally I used Stripe but recently switched to Paddle.

The main reason is that it makes my life a lot easier, they act as a reseller so I effectively sell my product to them, and they sell it on to customers. At the end of each month I just need to enter a single payment into my accounting platform, and they handle all currency conversions (I sell in USD, my accounting is in GBP) and sales taxes. They of course charge more, but for the amounts I'm talking about the cost outweighs the time I was spending dealing with Stripe payments.

They also support PayPal which I've had a lot of people ask for, so that's a win too.

While the overall complexity of the integration is less than Stripe, i feel like the whole thing is still in beta stage. There is no real isolated test environment, the suggested way of doing this is to give yourself a refund or work with $0 products.

I just have a secret 100% off voucher code for testing. It's not perfect and I'd would prefer a real test environment, but it does the job fine.

Sorry if it's offtopic, but can you give me an estimate of how much is Paddle charging? Their pricing page is not really helpful. Also, how easy it was to implement into your systems?

This service is still alpha/beta at best. I tried them and I got customers with double charges, missing emails, and their interface is difficult to understand and make use of. Give them one more year before trying.

At the same time it's being used for https://realpython.com which has millions of monthly views and an unknown (but likely high) amount of developers paying for their subscription through Paddle.

If you want to hear a success story about it, we talked about it when Dan (the guy who runs Real Python) went over his entire tech stack on this podcast: https://runninginproduction.com/podcast/4-real-python-is-one...

36:36 is when the Paddle bits starts.

Did you have a bad experience with it? If so, how long ago was that? I was thinking about using it on a future project.

this. accounting has become a big burden , especially if you are using microtransactions. i use xsolla for game payments for the same reasons. any alternatives to suggest?

We use Stripe to process credit card payments and we're adding support for ACH soon. Recently they made some changes to pricing (charging for Radar and non-US cards) that was surprising but otherwise they've been amazing. Great tooling support, great customer service and overall great platform.

>ACH soon

What is your approach to bank account verification? Plaid/Yodlee, a more traditional "deposit x money, ask for verification", or both?

We use Cliq.com for ACH for about 3 years now moving lots of transactions. Amounts are from hundred to low single-digit thousands (<$10k) about 200/wk. API is not as mature as Stripe but you can't beat the cost at $0.20 per transaction.

We mostly do outbound so no verifications are done

Interesting. Haven't heard of them but I'll check them out. Thanks!

We plan to do the traditional 2 small deposit verification. After discussing we decided not to force our customers to give up their bank logins to Plaid just for a quicker verification.

the guys at teller.io seems to be doing it the OAuth way so technically not storing it like the scraping guys. However, it may be limited to the banks that they can connect to due to the requirement for a "real API"

I have a small side business that makes a physical product. I've used PayPal for years with no issues, touch wood. There are two things that I like:

1. I don't have to write code or maintain a server to process payments. I realize that I'm an outlier for not wanting an API, but my business web page is completely static, and it's convenient for me to keep it that way.

2. They are unified with USPS for shipping, which has the best rates and service for packages that weigh just a few ounces. I can click on a button in PayPal and it spits out a USPS shipping label for me.

I greatly prefer not having to handle any of my customers data. The only info I ever see is their shipping address and whatever e-mail address they signed up to PayPal with.

We[1] use Stripe[2], Braintree[3], Coinbase Commerce[4], and GitHub Marketplace[5].

We built our own quote logic including prorating, etc. then apply that as recurring subscription using Braintree if customer wants to pay with PayPal, or Stripe if customer wants to pay with credit/debit card.

Breakdown by processor:

73% Stripe

26% Braintree/PayPal

0.7% GitHub Marketplace

0.3% Coinbase Commerce

[1]: https://wakatime.com/

[2]: https://stripe.com/

[3]: https://www.braintreepayments.com/

[4]: https://commerce.coinbase.com/

[5]: https://github.com/marketplace

Is there any use policy restriction on Stripe, Molly and/or Braintree that would prevent one to dynamically select one or another payment provider depending on the quoted fee for a given customer (card type, country, currency...)?

Not sure, but I know other companies use multiple payment providers too usually for redundancy. We would use Stripe for everything, except Stripe doesn't have the ability to accept BTC or PayPal.

For the same reasons as rwieruch's comment above, some international customers prefer PayPal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22178646

Our company is based out of India selling online courses for Data Science community and we use two payment providers: Instamojo and Paypal. Instamojo is for Indian cards and Paypal is for international payments. We could have used Instamojo for all payments but many customers like using Paypal as they don't have to worry about saving credit card information with some random payment provider.

Stripe just came out of private beta in India but their processing fees are pretty high. We are looking at two providers as they are promising better fees. Razorpay and Payu:

- Razorpay is pretty much Stripe of India with the documentation and UI similar to Stripe.

- Payu is an old dog in Indian Payment Industry with good sales team but bad integration and overall product.

Rajorpay customer support is pathetic. I tried to open an account with them and their replies are automatic emails.

I use Paddle, because they handle the intricacies of international VAT which is getting more and more complicated. I'd love to use Stripe, but I'd have to use something like Taxamo in combination with it. Since I was one of their first B2B customers I managed to negotiate a good rate with them, otherwise they'd be reasonably expensive. I've been generally happy with them.

I use Stripe and PayPal. PayPal accounts for about 30% of my revenue. As another data point, I get easily 10x more requests for Stripe integration on https://divjoy.com than all other payment options combined. Devs overwhelming want to use Stripe.

Pin Payments, for cards.

They have an Australian focus but global capability. If you use a scheme card for Fastmail, you probably paid via Pin Payments.

Pin have a Stripe-like API but a small-team feel during contact i.e. we know one another by name, and when escalating a technical query I've had dialogue directly with a dev lead. I've even received hand-written Christmas cards from them.

I live in mortal terror of Pin being bought by Stripe, or (worse) an Australian financial institution, with all the consequences for competence and customer service level that follow.

We also handle bulk/large payments via CS2 (the Aus equivalent of ACH, for Usonian readers), with handling fee.

I've been using Pin since very early days. Dev experience is great, the API is well thought out and documented.

Your fear about Pin being bought by an Australian financial institution may be unfounded (or it's already happened depending on your perspective). Back in the early days, it was fairly well known that National Australia Bank was a part owner in Pin, but I can't find anything to support that now. NAB is listed first on their partners page (https://pinpayments.com/company/partners) and their Terms of Service (https://pinpayments.com/terms/national-australia-bank) are a 3 way agreement between NAB, Pin and yourself.

I'm sure it would be worse if Pin was fully absorbed into NAB though.

Authorize.Net is what we've used for online payments and our internal subscription processing for over a decade. API is easy to use. Never really had any downtime. Rates are competitive. No one has come along and given us much of a reason to change.

Everyone else is dumping on authorize.net, but they're willing to work with industries that PayPal and friends won't touch.

Have they added support for the Visa stored credential framework [1]?

Last I saw on their forums, a few months ago, a few people has asked about it but Authorize.Net didn't have anything yet. (Support has been kind of spotty in general among payment processors [2]).

I was going to check their forums again to see if anything has changed, but the forum link on their developer site is giving me a 404 right not.

[1] https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/global/support-legal/documents...

[2] https://3dmerchant.com/blog/cenpos/which-payment-gateways-su...

They could really use someone who gives a damn to focus on their official libraries. They seem to have tried to make them function similar no matter which language you use. Not the smartest move, they end up being sort of convoluted in languages like Python. Which lead to many people starting a client library, but probably moving on from using them and the libs go unmaintained.

That brings me back. I remember Authorize.net before there was the ActiveMerchant gem (ruby).

Have you used Stripe as well? Authorize.net always got the job done. Then Stripe came along. I was honestly surprised of its success at the time. It was mainly just more of a joy to use - not cheaper or much easier. Just 'fun' as I remember it.

Authorize.net is OLLLLLLLLD school. Its the primary merchant service that is recommended/resold by banks.

I ended up choosing stripe but only because Stripe has better branding and was 'cooler' to use.

When stripe first came out my initial thought on the API was “these guys got tired of Authorize.Net”

I worked with authorize.net in 2006/7 for a php driven lead gen site... that brings me back...

The FDA/DEA have waged war on the kratom industry in extralegal fashion; I've had my personal bank accounts and credit cards shut down without explanation via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point.

With Operation Chokepoint over, the DEA/FDA still have colluded to prevent the kratom industry from processing credit cards. For my website www.getkratom.com, we take checks, echecks, and cryptocurrency. Sales are about 1/3 of what they were when we were able to take credit cards.

If you created a obfuscated company name GTKTM, INC and created a Stripe account and a front as some legit SAAS/products but really ran through the charges for your Katom product sales... wonder how long you could fly under the radar.

There are high risk merchant processors that specialize in enabling things like this but it isn't happening, visa/mastercard have really colluded under pressure from the feds to try really hard to make sure that no kratom merchants have credit card processing under any circumstances whatsoever.

At my sales volume I can't reasonably fly under the radar this way; I'm sure a tiny or start up operation could for at least a little while but it's not sustainable.

I used to get kratom from you a while ago. Unfortuantely, kratom itself started affecting me negatively and I couldn't keep using it

That seems to be a cycle with our customers, after 6 or 9 months the plant often does the thing people need and they stop when it stops working for them.

You are a brave person, thanks for sharing.

I've been meaning to try and fix the wikipedia article again. I last did that and got into an obnoxious fight with jytdog. I heard a couple months ago that he dox'd and called to harass a wikipedian and then deleted his account ahead of anticipated punitive action. Without that person spending 80 hours a week to advocate his particularly narrow anti-plant medicine interpretation of what is correct with regards to medicine, biochemistry, and pharmacology on wikipedia, editing it again might actually accomplish something. I think I and many other editors that went up against jytdog are still carrying trauma that makes me reluctant to reengage but it's about time to try.

Ping me sometime for coffee if you are in Boston, I am a real person. Stay safe out there

Cheers. I'm in the Bay Area and don't make it east too often (Love Burn Miami is happening though!), happy to meet for coffee in SF/Oakland next time you come out these ways.

Frankly, I've been in the legal drug space running www.getkratom.com for 13 years and things are fine because the plant actually is so profoundly safe. Orrin Hatch plus lots of veterans of the US armed forces calling their representatives is what saved it from a federal ban. It already went through that due process and didn't get banned.

Running a crypto hedge fund feels more dangerous to me in many ways that my simple, though controversial, ecommerce business. :) I'm doing fine and must like living on the edge.

I have been in the crypto space for several years now, I like living a bit on the edge myself :)

I’ll message you if I come to SF, I don’t travel as much as I used to, too many responsibilities at home now a days. Glad your business is safe!

Tip - most of the major traders I know are incorporated offshore now, just makes things easier.

I use https://pinpayments.com/ to accept credit/debit cards. My target market is 100% Australian so it was an easy option for me, but it won't be suitable for most people here.

I use them too, and have been extremely happy with the service I've received so far. I'm based in Australia but sell mostly to overseas customers and bill in USD. They take a 4% cut this way, but don't hit you with a currency conversion fee like PayPal do.

I used to use Stripe, but had an issue where my account was flagged as fraudulent by their ML model for God knows what reason. They sent me a link to click on to provide more information and escalate the issue, but the link went to a 404 page. I forwarded the email to their support but never heard back from them. Tried to call them, no dice. That's when I realised my business was relying on a service which could go down at any moment and didn't provide adequate phone support. Cancelled the account and signed up with PIN Payments on the spot. The few times I've spoken to them, I've received a response from a real person that actually knew what they were talking about. Couldn't recommend them more.

100% PayPal, despite the horror stories. Why? Micropayment account alongside regular account. A majority of payments are less than US$12, many are US$1 and on the latter I save 23c per transaction over typical rates (PayPal or other processors).

Customers from Turkey, Pakistan and a few other places are not happy (PayPal banned in their territories), but for the most part, few complaints. Ancient key/value pair API continues to work, which is nice.

Hate their website, hate the lack of ways to get reports, particularly on subscriptions.

Could be done so much better (and likely is), but the micropayment account saves me thousands of dollars a year.

Stripe for credit cards, run own nodes for cryptocurrency because customer privacy is important in certain scenarios for me.

I am also interested in this question but would also love to know the average percentage people are paying. It’s always been interesting to me how stripe (and the like) are basically a premium over less polished tools like Authorize.net but are able to charge as much as a percentage point more for basically the same thing.

I’ve built payment integrations my entire 20 year career and have always appreciated how ease of use relates to cost, e.g. it’s hard to build tools as easy to use as stripe or Braintree, but I’ve wondered how these features play out when it’s so close to the actual money itself.

The percentage depends on the business "risk" category , transaction volume, return and charge back rate. You can get rates as low as 1.9% and .15 per transaction. That doesn't cover payment processing gateway fees (ie Authorize.net) though.

Is Authorize.net not also 2.9% + 30 cents? (https://www.authorize.net/sign-up/pricing/)

I believe that is for the all-in-one option. And I do not believe Authorize.net offered that a decade back. Anyways, if you already have your merchant account, it is only 10cents a transaction.

I'm actually implementing our Stripe integration as we speak. Super straightforward to get it done, with tons of documentation and example, and the Elixir library is fantastic.

Exclusively Paypal. I've had nothing but extremely positive experiences, but form what I hear, when it goes bad, it goes really really bad. I'm looking into other options

It's actually easy to understand when PayPal 'Goes Bad'

1) When you collect money long before a user might file a chargeback - like if you're selling tickets for an event that will happen in 5 months, or if you're selling a product that you'll be shipping much later.

2) When your 'pattern' changes dramatically. eg, you've made 5k/month worth of sales for the past 2 years and this month you've suddenly sold 20k.

Do look into Stripe. The difference in dev UX is night and day.

We use both Paypal and Stripe for international (worldwide) payments. Most customers seem to prefer Paypal, and Paypal is set up so that we don't have to do anything - we just receive an email on purchase, while we need a server in the middle for Stripe.

Paypal is significantly more expensive. Recurring subscriptions are really bad (the "vintage" UI is stuck circa 1999).

But what's really bad is that at some point, after 5 or 6 years of significant usage, someone calls us once at 4.30 PM, gets no answer, and flags us as "suspicious". At that point, we could not retrieve any money for the account, could not call anyone (you cannot contact the fraud team - we'll call you back), and it started a lengthy (like, a couple of months) process where we were asked a lot of previous information in order to unlock the account. I mean, I understand you may want/need more information, but you talk to us first and then, if you do not receive good answers, you lock the account. Our bank charges per year way less than PayPal and gives us an account who knows who we are, comes visit yearly, and whose mobile number I have.

So, even if we still use Paypal by popular demand, I'd rather not.

Stripe and an in-house Bitcoin backend

Funny thing is that I'm working on debugging an issue with the Stripe API right now (or the library I'm using)

Elavon for direct card (they supported 3DSecure early back in the day), PayPal, and Bitcoin. We used to support Western Union, but we got blocked after a random amount of funds was received, their support was not able to help.

Business is for digital goods.

Would like to support worldwide bank transfers if it can be safe and quick for both sender and receiver, anyone got any tips?

For Nordic/European customers, you should check out Mondido, which provide local payments and a lot for smart added value.

We use Stripe for usage-based billing of our video calls API.

We wrote a blog post about how we built on top of Stripe's "subscriptions" API: https://www.daily.co/blog/implementing-api-billing-with-stri...

Multiple businesses but most common is direct wire transfer/bank transfer. The smaller business: generate invoices, send them to the customer, customer has a few choices, the only international ones are IBAN or PayPal (adds fees). Most common used is direct bank transfer. AVG transaction: €2500. Larger business: mostly commerce payments, over 90% is iDEAL (Dutch native payment system - does instant wire transfers between Dutch banks), the rest is either Apple Pay or by invoice/manual bank transfer. Some sub-0.1% uses Credit Cards but it almost costs more to keep it available than the revenue it generates. In all cases we use native banking APIs, no middlemen/broker/processors, except Credit Card. AVG transaction: €50.

Has anyone used Payfort (now an Amazon subsidiary), which is a payment processor for GCC (and MENA?) countries? I've never used them, but their terms of service seem to explicitly prohibit being used for software sales. I was wondering what else is available in the GCC countries that permits software subscriptions. For example, Chargebee seems to support transactions in AED, but it is not clear whether they can be used, for example, by an UAE-based LLC.


How many payments have you processed? I thought Bitcoin died as a payment medium.

People have figured out that the overhead is only about $0.50 if you're willing to wait, but most consumer apps don't make it easy to default to the lower fee.

(I haven't looked into this for some time, so that last paragraph is a bit dated.)

It is worth mentioning that today "you're willing to wait" actually means just some minutes.

I've actually started using BitCoin to pay for things recently and I was surprised to find out how easy and quick this actually is. This really is a no-bullshit electronic cash. No registration, no verification, no borders, quick and easy. I hope more goods and services are going to be offered for cryptocurrencies in future.

For smaller payments, say under $100 worth, the lightning network works great. It takes only a few seconds to complete, costs fractions of a cent, and is divisible to the millisatoshi (there are 100M satoshis per 1 BTC).

How do you deal with the price volatility?

I use CryptoWoo plugin for BTC payments and I use KyberSwap WooCommerce plugin for erc20 payments, you can select if you want to convert to DAI at checkout. BTC I just take the risk and believe it will keep appreciating in value over time.

We've processed over $200k in orders with over $100k being in BTC and ETH payments since 2017. Crypto merchandise website.

I don't use crypto for business and don't store much money this way (which would mean I have to plan) so far so I ignore it and I'm Ok. In fact I have only been affected by it in the positive way: I had insufficient BitConins to buy what I needed (not illegal) and planned to buy more but the rate grew quickly and I found myself in possession of sufficient value before I had time to bother.

On the Ethereum blockchain, things are a little easier. You can always use a stabletoken like DAI.

On the BTC blockchain, this can be a real problem. The best one can do is to hope that the BTC price doesn't swing more than the equivalent fee amount of a credit card transaction to make it worthwhile.

If you are willing to keep some of your crypto on an exchange (but remember, it is only really your crypto if you have the keys), you can try to automate the swap between BTC<-> stablecoin to reduce the exposure to price swings.

Lightning is changing that, and hopefully Ethereum's Raiden will soon be released and bring the possibility to use stablecoins for off-chain transfers as well.

Disclaimer and shameless plug: I was working on Raiden last year and now I am working on a self-hosted payment gateway that can leverage Raiden (https://github.com/mushroomlabs/hub20)

At Olodolo.com we process a few payments a day through CoinPayments. Haven't had any issues.

At our price range (most invoices are $10k-$50k and in the US), we generate and send invoices from Xero, our accounting software. Customers can pay via check, wire, ACH or Credit Card, and they typically do checks or ACH. For additional context: we automate customer service for ecommerce companies in the 50-500 employee range. Payment methods vary depending on the company size, localization, sector, payment size, etc.


Love the developer friendly aspect, and their customer service is awesome.

Due to a misunderstanding[1], they believed our service violated their TOS. Stripe offered us a week to migrate AND suggested a competitor that allows those types of Txns.

Luckily, with a message to Customer Support (via Twitter) we resolved the misunderstanding and never had to migrate.

Also worth noting, the issue was addressed on a Saturday.

1: Stripe mistakenly thought we were doing online prescriptions.

Did you have to escalate via twitter or did you try other options first?

I'm asking because if twitter was the first escalation and it worked, Great!

If twitter was another resort after unsuccessful support.... not so great.

I first went through their online support, but quickly followed up over twitter (which IIRC they handle support issues as well).

I felt satisfied with the level of effort I had to put in to resolve the issue.

> Stripe mistakenly thought we were doing online prescriptions.

Can you say what your company was actually selling?

Online second opinions for Eye Surgeons.

We used GoCardless to set up Direct Debits. We were taking large-ish recurring payments (£100s) and GoCardless was the cheapest as they cap at £2 a transaction.

Their service was great and was trivial to interact with. We were working only in the UK, and Direct Debit isn't available everywhere but GoCardless offers some equivalent in a lot of countries.

We use MangoPay.

The customer service or tech support isn't as great as Stripe but they have a really intuitive model for marketplaces

Yes, it's a really great service. If you want to see how it can be implemented, please have a look at https://sellcodes.com

I’m in the process of starting up a side business for my wife, making and selling physical goods. I’m in Sweden, and the go-to here is Klarna. They have their issues, but integration with WooCommerce was a breeze and people have come to expect Klarna as the default way to pay online.

There's also Billogram (in Sweden), I like them

I'm a complete dinosaur using Paypal. It emails me when there's a payment and I manually respond to the customer. They have to wait until I check my email since I don't even get notifications. Sorry customers. Paypal is a nightmare of course. Don't be like me.

At my current company we use Spreedly to integrate with the payment gateway. Idea is to have multiple payment providers in the background, which is fairly simple with Spreedly (they offer a single API, while large nr of supported psps in the background).

We also vaulting the cards there.


Several of my hospitality clients have started with Square. The CC fees are straight forward <= %4.

There are third-party partners who extend on the platform. (I'm looking for a simple option for invoices-statements without trying to compete as Online Bookkeeping service.)

We used both stripe and paypal. Now we have consolidated everything to stripe. Larger payments we use paper checks and wire transfers. Pricing wise both paypal and stripe are not very different.if you process large amounts you can get discounts from both

Chargify. JUST DON'T DO IT! It's very limiting, the api sucks, and it's expensive. We got locked in by a dev before I was a part of things and I think before Stripe (maybe not.) Either way; just don't.

1000% this. We started using chargify before Stripe when there were very few options and they were cheap.

They increased pricing and added a bunch of features we dont use, plus our payment processor (DPS now Windcave) refuse to export our customer card data.

So for the past few years we are slowly migrating people away as they update their card details, but its been a frustrating experience.

Don't use Chargify or DPS/Windcave

I create invoices using invoiceninja, which are payed via banktransfers mostly and via mollie payments for the smaller amounts.

This is usually an ideal payment in .nl, and various other payment methods in other european countries.

I own my own payment processing company and gateway, so I use that. I do sometime recommend Stripe and Square to Clients but Stripe for most people is a no go in Canada because of the 7 day deposit delay.

Services work invoiced through Bonsai, typically paid via ACH with some credit cards mixed in. Stripe handles the ultimate money movement.

SaaS - mostly Stripe credit cards, with a tiny percent in PayPal.

We use Stripe, Braintree (just for paypal billing agreements) and Mollie for certain EU payments. Mollie we only do annual payments since they are mostly non recurring payment options.

Paypal. Never had issues with them. Only problem is there are a few customers that are dishonest but they are just a couple of them Every year. Average transaction is 15usd

I dare you to try doing a withdrawl while overseas. You may have to prove you're not where you are before they'll reinstate your account.

This happened to me too. They thought it was suspicious that I was in Vietnam, so they brilliantly called my Canadian landline to verify that it was really me that was connecting from Vietnam (???). Of course, I was unable to answer...

PayPal is utter trash.

Done it many times. My entire income (more or less) flows through PayPal, and I manually withdraw at the end of the month, no matter when I am at that time. It has never been a problem.

Every client pays via CC except one by check and one by ACH. We use WePay which is connected to Freshbooks. We eat the 3% charge or whatever it is. Avg order size of $2,000.

We use Paystand for Credit Cards (2.49% + 30¢), ACH and eCheck 25¢ 0%. Services business. Import transactions into Xero. Monthly fee $299. We pass the CC fee to customers.

We use Stripe. Will be adding PayPal integration later this year. Many of our customers are in europe and they don't have credit cards. PayPal works best for them.

Nobody have experience with 2checkout? I'm considering using it for a SaaS (they handle taxes, payout to latam), but the lack of references feels odd

A mix of Stripe and Shopify's own billing system.

Braintree, planning to switch to stripe. Still looking for a good EU-compliant (Poland) solution for invoicing, having to do it myself right now.

Stripe's Payment Intent API

All done via serverless functions, for both initialisation and confirmation(via Stripe's webhooks).

Ebanx, for the Latin America market.

+1 for EBANX! Though after talking with them and talking with Stripe I’m not sure we lose out on as many credit cards as Ebanx made it seem like we would when processing with Stripe in LATAM.

Do you do any processing in Mexico? If so - how do you deal with facturas?

Second this question. Live and work in Mexico.

Adyen is a large player. Not quite as slick as Stripe but better rates.

Better rates if you do enough volume yes.

Oh, what about sales tax for SAAS in USA? Currently driving me mad.

I use taxcloud, and would be hesitant to recommend then. In the past they have made some mistakes (such as missing a filling) that resulted in a lot of headache to clear up. They have very poor customer service. It's been ok the last couple years, and I have not switched because it would be very painful.

Avalara and Vertex both have options that integrate well with major billing systems.




You should have at least changed the comment or picked a different sounding username. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22178218


public class PaymentRequest{}

public class PaymentResponse{}


type PaymentRequest struct {}

type PaymentResponse struct {}


data class PaymentRequest("")

data class PaymentResponse("")

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