Please use your judgement as to the quality of the contents of https://debian.community. I have no horse in this race, but I do notice it is a prime example of Godwin's law ...
 dig debian.community, dig danielpocock.com
 https://nm.debian.org/public/people/dd_all - no Daniel Pocock anymore
The actual reason the message didn't reach the mailing list it that he's banned there.
Except it didn't involve that kind of rhetoric at all.
Not until you brought it into the conversation.
Here's another possible explanation: maybe the message was posted by an individual who is generally banned from Debian mailing lists.
Come to that, maybe the same individual is the author of all the articles on the oddly-anonymous "Debian Community News" site.
I personally have no skin in this game, but if the message was censored from the list I would give the listmasters the benefit of the doubt that this was due to the author of the e-mail rather than the content per se.
A single other submission (an article on the Berlin Wall) and two comments relating to said article consitutes a HN posting history?
I'm not seeing anti-semitism here but I am seeing censorship.
Deleting messages that express specifically anti-semitic views is anti-racist.
Deleting messages that express specifically anti-state views, where that state imposes racial apartheid, is explicitly pro-racist.
This was the latter.
Either turn every academic conference into a geopolitical soapbox or just host it where the engineers are and leave it at that.
> I'd personally volunteer to give the same talk twice for both audiences.
And you've drawn a lot of false equivelancies, leaving aside that its completely unrelated to this topic.
The article is about the interpretation of Anti-semetism.. Not litterally where the conference should be held.
But seems you haven't read it.
Don't bring geopolitics into everything. That way lies madness.
A general ban on hosting conferences in geopolitically sensitive hotspots that covered Israel would be the non-hypocritical way to achieve this aim, supposing it is the true aim.
However, hosting a conference in Israel is inviting political posturing. Message censorship is political posturing. Using anti-semitism to censor non-anti-semitism is political posturing (and, usually, a form of anti-arab racism itself).
Palestinians basically live in israel, but have manufactured concrete borders put around them. Inhibiting their freedom of movement in their own country. Not allowing them to go to conferences. So holding a deb community member asking the community if they would be willing to spend some time for the engineers less fortunate, is actually quite awesome of him.
I accept the message can be disturbing to some (not to me) but I believe it is not anti-semitic.
How would it be disturbing?
Here is the paragraph which includes the author's opinion, initiated with a seemingly rhetorical question:
> Is Wirt really fighting anti-semitism, or could the DebConf20 organizers simply be afraid of any discussion that may deter wealthy Israeli sponsors? This doesn't suggest that Israelis have actually sought such influence, it is more of an indication of how easily some volunteers with official roles in Debian are bamboozled when anyone, whether it is an Israeli company or a Silicon Valley company, shows up with a fistful of cash.
Political - yes, though one could argue that the toxic state of relations in that region (almost) forces us to be political, in nearly any decision we make.
Arguably, staying silent (and not bringing the idea of a dual-city conference) would have been a "political" gesture, also. Tacitly in favor of the current status quo.
But bad faith? I don't think so.
I think a lot of Israeli engineers would just like to be able to host conferences without it turning into a geopolitical debate.
And yet it would maximize those who would be able to attend. Both Israelis and Arabs can fly to Turkey pretty easily.
>I think a lot of Israeli engineers would just like to be able to host conferences without it turning into a geopolitical debate
I'm sure a lot of North Korean and Venezuelan engineers would love that too, but until the Israeli government ends racial apartheid the chances of it not turning into a geopolitical debate are zero.
There are few places that don’t have geopolitical concerns for _someone_. I don’t think the community would be up in arms for a conference in the US, but plenty cannot come to the US (and it’s hardly not geopolitically controversial). I don’t think you’ll find many Armenian or Kurdish developers who want or could come to Turkey, for example. If you host in Palestinian territory, you won’t find many Israelis, Jews, gays, or other persecuted minorities able to attend that either.
I ask you to recognize that these things are complicated and multi-faceted, with a wide variety of “valid” viewpoints depending on who you are, and not worthy of such reductionism.
The apartheid accusation doesn't have much to do with Arab Israelis; the fact is that Israel exercises complete civil and military control over vast portions of the West Bank; in these areas, you can be Jewish- in which case you're an Israeli citizen, subject to civil law and able to vote for the government that effectively controls the area; or, if you're Palestinian, you're subject to the military law and vote for a government that is powerless on the territory. This is an apartheid situation, but Israel can deny it because it happens outside of its legal borders, where Israel enjoys every privilege of sovereignty without any of the duties.
There's a wall with guard towers. I've been there and seen it myself. The existence of some 2nd class Arab citizens that they couldn't ethnically cleanse or expel any other way while the world was watching doesn't change that fact.
>I ask you to recognize that these things are complicated
It was never complicated. Israel was a racist European colonization project just like South Africa. The fact that it screams anti-semitism until it's blue in the face and asks you do to the same does not change that fact.
This is not "a geopolitical debate", this is a fundamental human rights issue.
As someone, who has zero experience with DebConf whatsoever, I have to say, I can see how such an intro could be interpreted as anti-semitic. What "challenges" would have an Israli conference have to handle? How and why. If it's just because it is Israeli then do all Israeli conferences need to "handle" this challenge?
Should DebCon be boycotted if it doesn't live up to said "challenges"?
But maybe someone can explain, what is meant by "challenges"?
Also, as a sidenote, the article doesn't help it's case either, if it uses the Holocaust as a reason to criticize Israel.
Haifa is not zoned. It's inside Israel, which once entered you're free to wander around.
> there are military checkpoints
Given the threat posed by terrorism, blaming the Israelis for having military checkpoints on their land borders is kind of disengenious
> depending on your ethnicity
Arabic is an official language of Israel. 20% of its people are Muslim. I've never witnessed a security check where men wearing a Taqiyah were treated different. Please ride the Jerusalem tram, which is packed almost 50/50 with orthodox jews and orthodox muslims and tell me, this is an Apartheit-state and not a place of civic order.
> So if you are Muslim for instance you could be banned from attending the conference.
No, you're not. As the place of the conference is Haifa, once you've managed to pass border-customs at the airport your movement is unrestriced inside Israel.