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> Regardless, for some people, no amount of therapy is going to make them forget that they have suffered the collective judgement of society and weigh in at the bottom of the attractiveness scale, with little realistic hope of improving their rating without wholly changing appearance, personality, and or interests.

Therapy won't actually solve the problem, in any case. Therapy doesn't magically procure a wife. Typically, this problem has been solved by sending lots of young men to go die in a war. Other times, a plague has helped, though that tends to kill more evenly.

> Therapy won't actually solve the problem, in any case.

This is a very prejudicial and uninformed comment about therapy. It's damaging when people has such judgments, because it stigmatizes the role and working of therapy, preventing people in need to actually approach it. In my personal opinion, people who think they're too macho to support therapy, are actually good candidates for it.

> Therapy doesn't magically procure a wife

The term "magically" is out of context. Theraphy is not a black and white phenomenon. It can be thought like a mitigation whose aim is to lower the patients' psychological barriers so that they can live a regular life.

If a person has, say, a very strong social anxiety that prevents them to meet women (incel typically have), therapy can teach them handle it so that they're able to socialize (and many people who socialize end up with a partner, so yes, it "magically" procures a wife).

"Therapy won't actually solve the problem, in any case. Therapy doesn't magically procure a wife."

Not having a wife is not the problem. There are plenty of people who live their entire lives single but don't turn in to hateful, bitter, violent trolls and assholes.

It's doubtful that getting married will turn these bitter, violent trolls around.

There's an entire culture that these people are part of which encourages these sorts of attitudes and behaviors, and simply getting married is unlikely to change their culture.

> There are plenty of people who live their entire lives single

Most of them do so by choice.

I agree that there are a few bitter, violent trolls. Their behavior is used to dismiss an actual societal issue. Nobody really knows what society is supposed to do with men these days, especially in the communities where the "traditional" roles don't exist any more.

If what you say is true and the bitter, violent trolls are only a small minority of the larger incel community, and if that community wants a peaceful, reasonable dialogue with the larger world, then that community is going to have to clarify its position as being distinctly different from the trolls and denounce them rather than encouraging them, glorifying them, or treating them like martyrs.

1. That's not what the post you are responding to said.

2. I don't care whether incels want a peaceful, reasonable dialogue with the larger world. I want to solve the problem, and you should too. Starting a dialogue is a necessary part of solving the problem, and waiting for people who don't feel they can talk to the rest of the world to start a dialogue is not going to work.

Ostracizing angry, lonely people is a great way to make them angrier and lonelier.

"They're the one's with the problem, they should be the ones to apologize" is not an effective strategy.

Im curious what do you think the traditional roles were?

Perhaps war has a strong evolutionary pressure. Especially considering those who order populations to war don't tend to fight (and die) in them.

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