Do I read this as, "We deliberately locked you out and removed your attribution, and we hint we can fix things, and we want you to do certain things for us, but no we aren't actually saying we'll fix anything and no we didn't tell you about it in advance?"
Really, I would just walk away from anyone trying to deal with me on this basis. Come out and say what you did and what you're going to do. If you need my help with something, ask, and don't try to hint things are tied together when they aren't.
Agreed, with one exception -- to expose the other side to the public. I think Oracle is showing its face (again) and I think it is in the community's interest to _let_ it keep showing its face.
In all, there's little good that would come out of it and a ton of risk for Kawaguchi.
> what would have happened to Oracle?
Well eventually the same thing that happened to SCO ;-)
They are losing credibility in the PR domain even more. This is not directed towards the general public or even Oracle's corporate customers, but towards the hackers, sysadmins, and other tech workers. The opinions of those people matter however, and eventually they will be consulted by those that make purchasing decisions. A general mistrust and dislike of Oracle will take its toll.
Oracle has some very good products. SCO had a Unix nobody wanted anymore (at least, nobody with two or more neurons).
True. I wanted it.
I find this very unlikely.
UPDATE: According to tweets in another comment, I'm wrong and van Zyl did cause this. I'm still inclined to attribute this to incompetence rather than malice though.
But I do not think it's as simple as it seems and blaming everything on Oracle's "native evilness" is a bit naive. Quite the contrary, I'm starting to get the feeling that the 'community' might have been played a bit and all the Oracle bashing used as a trampoline for the fork.
Take this message for example: why did Kohsuke feel the need to post this publicly? He left Sun/Oracle, just had closed negotiations between Oracle and his new employer Cloudbees regarding Hudson (done while working at Sun) and recently got "the community" to vote on a fork. He certainly has enough detail contacts to resolve this privately if needed, so why would he choose to post this publicly?
But yeah, the reply in itself couldn't have been more insinuating.
This wasn't anyone at Oracle. It was me after a preliminary infrastructure audit, it's not malicious or permanent. http://twitter.com/#!/jvanzyl/status/34413629902168064
This is my request to @kohsukekawa (http://bit.ly/fXsvd7) to air everything in a conversation that everyone can see http://twitter.com/#!/jvanzyl/status/34413629902168064
So in other words... let's have an IM chat for questions I have about the core architecture of a project you built, and then I'll restore your account?
If I were Oracle, I would not want to provoke someone like Google to drop Java and really throw its weight behind a different mainstream applications platform. Oracle is playing a dangerous game right now. No army of salespeople will save them if and when the tide turns. These things are non linear.
Because the answer is either yes or no, and if there is a good possibility that it is no (Oracle's behavior is long term financially detrimental) you might think shareholders would care. But I do not see $ORCL shareholders marching in the street in protest about the apparent pillaging of the company's future. Where are the pitchforks?
// Which in itself is generally a good strategy for most startups to emulate.
// Oh - and HN's favourite -- I just want to play Bingo with my students.
(Which, from what I understand, isn't far from what Google has done, with the bulk of non-search success having been from acquisitions.)
I agree, however this is only a short term strategy. Soon, the gold rush will be over and there will be an abundance of pickaxes on the second hand market. Case in point, so called "dark fiber", or the unused infrastructure expansions of the early dot-com bubble.
Do you care about the fuel injectors in your car? What about the magnetron in your microwave?
If productivity drops, or you suddenly only have 50% of your development staff because management bought an inferior product that developers hate, I don't see how that helps the business?
The Hudson lead, Winston Prakash from Oracle, is highly skilled, very thoughtful, and he cares about the community. He is also the first person to create detailed, comprehensive architectural documentation.
So now the main accomplishment of the current project lead is writing detailed documentation. Those that can - code, those that can't - write very detailed documentation. Yeah, I think I'll stick with Jenkins...
So we're now running people down for decent documentation? Seriously?
IMO, it sounds like Sonatype (which was already bundling a version of Hudson in their premium product) sees this recent fork as an opportunity to ramp up their contribution to the "offical" Hudson project and take some control.
At this point, perhaps the account problem could be fixed immediately, and then a separate discussion started to address the hudson-labs issue. To do otherwise seems unnecessarily infantile.
I agree removing his name was dumb, but it could be an unpredicted side effect of modifying the account.
When it comes to recognition and proper attribution therefore, there are no 'just mistakes'. It is like if you go on holiday and come back to find that the bank has misplaced all of your money, foreclosed on your mortgage and now there are a bunch of smelly windows developers living in what used to be your house.
... and when you go to complain to the bank they say "I don't see why you're so upset, it was just a mistake"...
... except that, in this case, every time you ask the bank to put it right and give you your house back, the bank is saying "sure, no problem, but can we talk about you doing us a little favour first?"
I won't apologise for the extremity of the above dramatisation either - stealing someone's credit is just about the worst crime in open source.