breaking up the monotony of the ~400mi drive stopping at the halfway point because the range is likely just short of the destination (and i assume even shorter if there was traffic due to snow, plus range reduction in cold, plus the elevation through the tejon pass), plus all the other stops along the 5 being much smaller or more inconvenient...
i'd be much more curious about how to handle this kind of demand in usage. i drive a gas car and the gas station lines on this route can be atrocious too, but people are done in a matter of minutes so it makes no real dent on travel time.
This is a serious charging station, in Shenzhen. 637 chargers.
Not sure what you were trying to say here, but the implication is that this is a dingy, sleazebag motel, only trafficked by hookers and pimps.
For the record, that's absolutely untrue.
High speed rail between the major cities, with decent transport links out to the smaller areas makes so much more sense (if done correctly, which CA and the US in general has proven incapable of doing).
Not really. It's a 700-space parking lot. A Walmart Supercenter, of which the US has over 2000, has more than that.
Don't know tesla-specific numbers.
For people like me who charge at home, I just want to quickly jump into a spot and get 90 miles range to get me home. Should take 15-20 minutes max to get my battery there, but waiting line sucks.
That said, "free" anything brings out outlier behavior that even the most nominal charge would prevent. (the $10 copay for doctor visits is the same thing)
With gas stations, that doesn't happen - you just stop wherever you want. If there's a line, you go to the next station.
Tesla has already invested $400 million in their network, and continues to expand it (Electrify America was part of a settlement VW had to agree to as part of Dieselgate, hence why they can't be VW branded). It's clear legacy automakers aren't interested in making the investment, nor state or national governments.
Lots of Superchargers under construction in California (where these queues were): https://supercharge.info/map
Although to do the calculations correctly, you'd want to normalize for charge times which have improved with M3 + V3.
Cutting free lifetime supercharger access has probably reduced the day to day load on the network, but isn't going to do anything at all to help with peak use around holidays.
I can completely see why Tesla is holding off switching specs until CCS improves or another standard comes to take its place.
There is no 200 Amp limit in the modern 150-350 kW CCS chargers being deployed by networks like Ionity and Electrify America.
Tesla, of course, already uses CCS in Europe. A Model 3 can charge at over 190 kW on European CCS chargers. A Porsche Taycan (800V), 270 kW.
Gets up to 499 amps.
I think your information is out of date. There are 500 amp CCS DC chargers. It's how they get to maximum outputs of 350 kW and 400 kW.
> The standard doesn't provide the ability for cars to put power into the grid
It's coming: https://www.electrive.com/2019/01/24/charin-bidirectional-ch...
> Tesla is holding off switching specs until CCS improves
Tesla is using CCS plugs in Europe: https://insideevs.com/news/343728/most-tesla-superchargers-n...
>reactive spinning reserve/frequency control market
What is this? Because if it has anything to do with utilizing software installed at the factory in order to control the fleet of cars as some sort of distributed self metering battery grid to the financial benefit of the EV manufacturer instead of the end customer, I'm calling B.S.
It'd be like Smart TV's, but worse.
Why do you bring up ability to put power into the grid? In case of supercharging along the route it would be never the case.
The 80A limitation you’re referring to was in the CCS 1.0 specification, now superseded by CCS 2.0.
To be fair, hours-long wait times can happen on normal weekdays too (SJC for instance) when there are a bunch of locals using them.
Surprisingly (not really), the same issues that apply to food, gas, and rest stops on holidays also apply to Superchargers.
Quick googling found e.g. a CAT generator that has output sufficient for charging 20 cars (150kW per 2 cars in a Tesla supercharger station).
Sure it's not green, but if it's one stop once or twice a year, surely that's better than driving a gas car year round?
I think this is how the popup charger at Burning Man worked.
I did a 250 mile trip from Bay Area to Central Valley. Stopped for 20 minutes on way back in Coalinga to add 80 miles of range at 400 miles of charging per hour.
Gas powered cars get 500+ miles of range with a 5 minute fillup. And the range is not dependent on other variables such as battery age or ambient temperature. What's the EV range at 5F (-15C) - a pretty common temp in the winter? What if the batteries are 5 years old?
A gas powered car is going to need far fewer fillups per week than an EV, and be far more flexible - its one less thing you have to think about and plan for.
Those extra fillups required by EVs require more stations to be built - including at your home and place of work.
Imagine stopping at the charging station and having the entire battery pulled out and replaced with a charged one, pit-stop style. It completely neutralizes the #1 complaint about how long batteries take to charge, since there should always be a supply ready-to-go at the station.
This would be an automated, underground mechanism - you wouldn't even have to leave your car.
It will be faster than filling up a tank with gas.
I don't see it catching on. It's too much logistical hassle. Battery packs can't be delivered as easily as fuel or electrons.
And when do you swap the battery? If you have 50% left but that's not far enough to get where you're going do you swap it out then or do you charge? And if you're charging anyway what's the value of the expense of the swapping system?
You could even automate health check-ups on the batteries this way too, and decommission the rotten ones from the fleet.
so either you're only allowed to swap batteries at these authorized stations (akin to today having a car that can only use petrol purchased from a particular brand of station), or it's trivially easy to swap it yourself (or with some easy to obtain equipment, like today's car oil change).
If it's the first case, then these cars are DRM'ed to hell and back. Not a good world for the consumer.
If it's the latter, then battery swapping will happen. It's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law applied to batteries.
Electric vehicles as a financial proposition make much less sense when the cost becomes "and a $XXX dollar per month battery swap plan for as long as you plan on owning this vehicle". It also becomes problematic since batteries are the most depreciating major component on the vehicle. If you have a model where I can opt in to have my battery swapped for a brand new one without paying for the entire cost of the new battery, that business will not be solvent for very long.
Then there's the disposal/recycling costs. It's still not profitable to recycle the type of batteries we are putting in vehicles, so unless the government is implementing a new EV vehicle tax to help offset the recycling effort, any business model would have to account for that huge cost.
Battery swaps seem to have been a transitory solution. Battery forklifts and battery container shuttles at ports used to use battery swaps. But once batteries got good enough to run them all day, it was easier to just plug them in for a recharge when not in use. Many electric cars can now go further without stopping than the driver can.
Most drivers, in most circumstances, would prefer to wait the extra 10 or 15 minutes to charge their own battery. After hours of driving, you probably want to stop for a snack or go pee anyway.
- Need to standardize on a small set of form factors across manufacturers
- Limitations to vehicle designs
- How to prevent owners from swapping a battery with 1000 cycles of wear for one with 10 cycles (and vice-versa)
- Getting the cost down to be comparable with plain charging (it would never be cheaper—the batteries need to be charged either way)
I think developments to fast charging will quickly negate any perceived benefit to battery swapping. Increases in capacity will also help, as will changes to expectations and habits for refueling (combining recharging with meals seems like an easy solution).
W/r/t standardization - yeah, mechanically there might be some interesting considerations like mounting points and common interfaces on the bottom of a car; but if the will is there, I'm sure there is a way.
Bad battery swapping isn't hard to discourage - if you poison the well, your vehicle is banned from the subscription battery program and you get to charge at home. Many ways a car can be tracked by the battery swapping station - especially if you have to sign in with your Tesla account/use an app to initiate the swap).
Not being able to fill up at home, or in the Target parking lot while I shop kinda sucks too - and those are much more common occurences than a 400 mile road trip. In reality, it's more of to a tradeoff than a regression...
Battery swapping is complicated and capital intensive. It would have to solve an urgent need to catch on. But there isn't one.