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Tesla Model 3 Invaded My Neighborhood – But It’s Bigger Than That (GM Take Note) (forbes.com)
20 points by clouddrover 6 days ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 29 comments

This is not the case elsewhere in the US nor is it in most of Europe.

Driving around Las Vegas for example, and you'd be hard pressed to find any electric vehicles.

With the exception of Norway (which is extremely rich), in Europe these cars are way too big. The rulers of the electric landscape are the BMW i3, Renault Zoe, and Hyndai Ioniqs and several others.

I wonder what will happen with the introduction of the VW ID3. The Up! is now electric-only too.

Here in the UK (Midlands) I see a few Teslas, very few Leafs, even fewer Zoes and the odd i3 (which you can spot from the rubberband-width wheels).

I see charging bays (normally 2 bays) in a car park of 100+ spaces, so I do not think the infrastructure is in place to support electric vehicles, nor the mindset that people would be happy to hang around for 1 hour waiting for their car to charge. They/we are too stuck on the immediate nature of the internal combustion engine and fuel refilling.

There is simply no contest on acceleration, ease of use and cost of ownership. In Europe gas prices alone should kick over the transition to EVs. Currently only basic emotions and resistance to change are holding back a flood.

Human behaviour (in numbers) being like that of herd animals it only takes a few neighbors to trigger the avalanche.

But the Tesla is still extremely expensive compared to most "little" cars in my UK neighbourhood (VW Up!, Toyota Yaris etc.)

I see many secondhand cars here and can't understand how the 100,000 mile warranty on batteries (eg the 100,000 miles quoted by the VW ID3) will ever compete with secondhand combustion engine vehicles. For a VW Golf, a 200,000+ mile limit is "normal". I can't see how the removal of the floor to replace the batteries will ever work in practice, unless we're making all these cars with a short-sighted view of recycling?

It's half the cost per mile to operate an EV in the US versus an internal combustion engine. With UK/EU petrol prices, I imagine the math is even more favorable towards EVs.

The battery pack is easily dropped in a Tesla, but you should expect it to last the life of the vehicle (at least 500k miles, almost 25 years at 20k miles/year of driving).

Is the CPM assertion supported by data? Does it factor in incentives at the federal level that are subject to sunset provisions? Does it include local incentives that are inconsistent when looked at across the entire US? (ie: CA vs TX) Is it utilizing a normalized cost structure for maintenance (hourly labor rate, for example) which is also highly variable geographically?


Data is based on cost of electricity versus cost of gasoline. EVs have only a handful of moving parts compared to internal combustion vehicles, so maintenance is less overall (battery coolant and brake fluid changes ever 2-4 years, cabin air filter every 1-2 years, tire rotations every ~6k-7.5k miles).

The US is a bit dysfunctional compared to Europe (where they put a priority on shifting away from fossil fuels with subsidies and taxes); regardless, even a Tesla Model 3 without federal incentives (which finish phasing out for Tesla shortly) is still cost competitive when total cost of ownership is evaluated against most internal combustion vehicles (except hybrids).

A Tesla Model 3 is a huge car in Europe. In many older cities, it simply won't fit.

We need small electric runabouts. It seems like they only exist in China though.

These are made on the MQB platform. I'd wait for vehicles from MEB platform (ID3 etc)

It's not a Matter of emotions, but where's the infrastructure, outside big cities? If you want to do a trip, you're almost in the pain and stress mode on where you can charge your vehicle. And charges take too much time at the moment.

Imagine going on a EV trip from South of Spain to South of Italy. You are almost doomed


Scroll to Europe. Superchargers all the way from the Strait of Gibraltar to Sicily. And that’s just Tesla’s Supercharger network, not Destination chargers or other charging networks. Supercharge time is about 20 minutes.

Okay, here's how I imagine it. Gibraltar to Siracusa in a Hyundai Kona 64kwh. Click "Plan Route" to see the route if needed:


evtripplanner.com routes you through superchargers. There are an astounding number of chargers. How about from Malaga, Spain to Reggio Calabria, Italy, here's a link https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/?id=99znsd1z. It's astounding to see all those superchargers covering all of Europe.

not in every angle. Take for example the right side of Italy...there are 2/3 Superchargers only and from Foggia to Lecce there's none (and they are like ~400KM + none around)

Also in Germany there's the same problem: if you see around Berlin, the capital, only one supercharger is there


Enter Berlin. Then, scroll to Italy. Superchargers aren't the only charging infrastructure in Europe.

Berlin also have a huge amount of old eGolfs in the WeShare car pool platform. I've always wondered how they charge all of those cars.

For most of the electric vehicle revival Nissan has dominated the charts yet they still dont have anything but the leaf and I think they will also look back at it as their biggest wasted opportunity.

My brother bought a Leaf and loved the thing so much that he drove it over his BMW. He's now getting a Model 3 because Nissan has nothing else in its stable that's above the Leaf.

What happens when there is mass adoption for people needing to drive long distances?

This video seems to be the start of something https://youtu.be/a1uFudf37JU

I drive long distances in my model 3. 1000 mile road trips throughout the Midwest. I have already seen some changes. There are several traditional gas stations that are also installing chargers and superchargers. These tend to have a restaurant attached. Works incredibly well for my needs. These new charging speeds can pretty much fill my battery to 80% in 20-25 minutes. Perfect for a bite to eat and a bathroom break.

I suspect more and more gas stations will switch over when it more vehicles get on the road that need electrons over gas.

Besides Tesla’s network there are quite a few places that have chargers. More and more businesses and hotels are installing them.

What will happen is that all EV manufacturers will move to a common charging standard and that will make more chargers available for EV drivers. CCS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System) is the obvious candidate for that.

ccs is likely to be the eventual standard. Of course stupid infighting between auto companies means the us and euro ccs standards are different (but similar). China has their own standard, of course.

The tesla standard is arguable superior to all others and is offered unencumbered by patents if the other company agrees not to use it. I've had one for 7 years without running into this problem, but it's not impossible. Tesla keeps building more and more stations, but they are selling so many model 3s.

The tesla patent free offer is a trojan horse though. To use tesla's charging port you have to agree to not sue them over patents not just regarding charging but everything. You also don't get access to the supercharger network at any price. No sane manufacturer is going to agree to terms that one sided.

Once things settle down a bit I'm pretty confident each region will regulate a charging standard and eliminate the confusion, but it's still too early since vehicle to grid has hardly been touched outside of Japan and actively cooled cables are not part of any spec.

This was taken at the end of Thanksgiving weekend and isn't representative of typical supercharger stations.

And even in that situation, the queue wasn't much longer than the number of stalls of the supercharger, so the waiting time should be like 30 minutes. That certainly sucks , but at some gas stations you can have quite some wait time too, if they are overrun by demand.

What you are seeing as bad, thousands of business owners are going to see as a huge, huge opportunity to make money.

I live smack dab in the heart of Orange County and Model 3’s are like the new AirPods. They’re everywhere.

Except that the Model 3s don't fall out of your ears :)

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