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Google screwed over Sun Microsystems. Let’s not forget that all this started before Oracle.

The original Java license mandates that mobile usage is differently licensed. Google basically writhed their own JVM just to bypass this - not for any other technical reasons.

If you don't want to enter into a particular licensing agreement, and a clean room reimplementation lets you do that legally, what's wrong with that?

> and a clean room reimplementation lets you do that legally

You're begging the question. This Supreme Court fight is over whether a clean room reimplementation lets them do that legally.

I understand that. I was specifically replying to the assertion that "Google screwed over Sun Microsystems". No, they did not. They decided on a path that they believed was legally defensible and would allow them to do their own thing with Java at lower cost. It might turn out that they're wrong, but no one tried to screw over anyone. It was purely an economic decision.

And if it turns out that Google loses this case, then all sorts of things that we take for granted for interoperability (like WINE, and, before the MS acquisition, Mono) are actually copyright infringement and shouldn't exist. I don't think we can claim with a straight face that WINE or Mono were created with malice intended toward MS, so we should give Google the same courtesy.

I don't think that's "begging the question". Google's corporate counsel determined current law allows for clean room reimplementation, so that's what they did. This was subsequently challenged, and that's where we are now. This isn't a case of Natural Law where the decision is commonsensical -- it's up to the courts to make an evaluation based on other established caselaw (in this case copyright), and there's certainly room for interpretation.

This is a fight over whether Oracle can get existing Supreme Court and Ninth Circuit precedent overturned to make clean room reimplementation no longer legal.

They could have used a different system (LLVM?) and Java would have become irrelevant on mobiles.

Sure, but instead they decided to capitalize on the existing market of J2ME and Symbian Java developers with tricks to sidestep Java licensing on mobile devices.

And nowadays Android holds hostage any Java developer that wants to target Android, because one needs to constrain ourselves to Android Java's view of the world.

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