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[flagged] Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine (wikipedia.org)
14 points by fortran77 on Oct 20, 2019 | hide | past | favorite | 24 comments



Met an RN a couple days ago, told her about my cheap healthcare plan (daily spinach and fruit smoothies, multi grain cheerios with their 9 embedded vitamins 100% daily recommended, variable protein sources with constant physical activity, lots of untreated water if possible, staying on the move and paying attention at all times so as not to get injured). We discussed socialized medicine of other nations, and she seemed to show an aversion to it. Her argument was that not as many people would want to get into medicine since they wouldn't be paid as much. She works in ER so the first thing I think of is trauma which is different than caring for a lethargic citizen decaying away because of their own habits.

But privatised healthcare generates the fear of the high medical bill, and this could incentivize people to exercise caution (pun? kinda). I personally would not prefer to give doctors all my money in the final few years of a sedentary life spent carelessly.


Reagan is the one who socialized medicine in the first place. He signed the law that made it illegal for emergency rooms to turn away patients.


Ronald Reagan was so popular he won re-election with 49 states.

He lacked only Minnesota, the home state of his opponent. Reagan did not campaign there, he said it would not be kind.


Well he obviously doesn't need such a thing, but that doesn't mean he has to prevent others from having it


[flagged]


Would you please stop using HN for political and ideological battle? We've had to ask you this several times already. Ignoring moderation requests eventually gets your accounts banned on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


Was it in-appropriate under a post that was itself politically-charged? I've seen quite a lot of others advocating for political policies without censure. For instance, I saw a large number of commenters arguing about the pros and cons of UBI under a recent post about Yang's automation fears being over-blown.


That's a somewhat complicated question, because the OP in this case was probably a bad one for HN. But the short answer is yes, it was inappropriate even under a post that was itself politically charged—because sometime good submissions are politically charged. In those cases following the guidelines is even more important than usual, and also is harder than usual.


You can say that about anything governments do: roads, police, schools, electrical grids, national defence... The fact is that you live in a society and benefit from so many things it provides. Additionally, society benefits from having you contribute to it.

I rarely see people with a position like yours demonstrate their commitment to fierce independence by moving out to the wilderness and surviving off the land completely on their own. Why is that?

I think it's because you take for granted all of the things society provides for you and generally attribute all of your successes to your own efforts. That is a mindset which can lead only to resentment and isolation, but maybe that's what you want?


Anyone does have the right to vote for it, that's how it works. People can decide it's best if everyone shares the burden of unexpected tragedy, just like people decided it's best if everyone pays for street lights, roads, police, firemen, rubbish collection and armies.


Why can’t I choose not to pay for a war that I don’t want? A highway I won’t use or a school I won’t send my children to?


"a la carte" infrastructure sounds very expensive. Where does it stop, do we shift the entire cost of handicap accessible sidewalks on to those that use it?


Exactly; it was a counter argument to à la carte health care.


Why medicine in particular? Presumably you don’t get so worked up about your tax dollars going towards paved roads or police stations. Your objections seem somewhat arbitrary


Progressive tax structures are also arbitrary but I don’t see anyone here complaining about those.


US tax code is in effect surprisingly flat and it’s stuck like that because it collects 27.1% GDP and nobody pays extreme rates. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rev...

For an extreme example a homeless drunk spending most of their income on alcohol is paying a 40% tax for the privilege. Benefits are of course a separate issue, but few want to calculate benefits from free roads, Medicare, police, or Social Security as government welfare.

At the other end Bill Gates actual lifetime income is vastly higher than his taxable income due to the charitable tax deduction and capitals gains being deferred until sale.


1) Plenty of people complain about progressive taxation and advocate for a flat tax.

2) Progressive tax is not arbitrary. As income increases, a higher % of spending is discretionary. Nearly all of the working class’ income goes to basic necessities. That is part of the rationale.


you do already via medicare/medicaid though, and it's likely that skipping small preventative (=> cheap) procedures via being uninsured is costing you a lot when people with chronic conditions land in either of those programs due to age/poverty/disability associated with their illness


And I don't like medicare nor medicaid either.


>and you have no right to vote yourself a piece of my wallet

That's literally my right in the Constitution through quite a few amendments.


[flagged]


Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. Crossing into personal attack is particularly not ok.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


Do you think it was appropriate to call him an asshole?


Not in polite company.


I’m happy to join a nation wide health insurance pool, but only if it excludes smokers and people with other harmful lifestyle choices, like obesity.


Society - with myriad complex and resource-involving arrangements and institutions - predates the very existence of the human individual's consciousness. Your very ability to express your thoughts to yourself is the result of the activity of other members of society.

It is only quite recently in history that people (who aren't hermits going into the wilderness) have been making the "but I want to be left alone" argument. It is an unfortunate result of the concentration of property and means of production in recent centuries and the ideology it engendered and disseminated.




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