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“My Google account got suspended because of NewPipe” (github.com)
801 points by nuxdie 29 days ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 522 comments



I think these automatic suspensions are really alarming.

I got my whole Vimeo account suspended by some script that had the impression I was violating some of their ToS. I just uploaded 3 demo videos of an app I created. Then they told me I should click on a link to contact support, where they told me I have to log in to contact support, which I couldn't do because my account was shut down.

I just released a blog article that needed these videos, so I didn't have any time for these things so I quickly uploaded the videos to Youtube.

I mean that was just a small account with three videos, but they simply nuked the whole thing. That's just crazy.

I don't think I'm save at Youtube either, I just didn't have a better idea at the time.


> Then they told me I should click on a link to contact support, where they told me I have to log in to contact support, which I couldn't do because my account was shut down.

Gotta love Silicon Valley Customer Service!! The same thing happened to me with LinkedIn. Multiple Catch-22s and/or Chicken and the Egg.


  Silicon Valley Customer Service!!
Vimeo is in NYC.


The HQ does not need to be in Silicon Valley to adopt the ethos.


Same with Uber.


And Facebook, to report a security issue with accounts getting falsely taken down, after my account got taken down.

https://twitter.com/ArtemR/status/1176234693466787840?s=19 https://twitter.com/ArtemR/status/1176246620452573184?s=19 https://twitter.com/ArtemR/status/1183808406601097216?s=19


Maybe this is unsuitable for your use-case, but these days it's pretty easy to embed video yourself with the <video> tag and an MP4 file. Example: https://www.brainonfire.net/blog/2018/03/23/oxalis-leaf-open...


Video can still cost a lot of bandwidth on your personal hosting. .. I've actually been meaning to rehost all the stuff I have on either Vimeo or YouTube on a personal PeerTube instance, change all my embeds on my blog to point to PeerTube with YouTube/Viemo removed and links under the video to those respective sites as mirrors.

None of my stuff gets enough attention for me to care about exposure, but big content creators who rely on YouTube ads really can't get away from it.


> Video can still cost a lot of bandwidth on your personal hosting.

Jesus Christ. Just pay for the bandwidth! You can't at the same time go "I dont want to be subjected to this automation stuff" and "I don't want to pay!"


More like use a dedicated server or vps host that bundles several TBs of bandwidth. It isn't hard to get ~20TB of bandwidth for $100-$200, compared to however much that would cost at aws/gcp.


10 euros a month for a 16tb bandwidth openVZ server at Time4vps. I have a 1TB storage server for 17 euros a quarter and it has 4 TB of bandwidth.

referral https://www.time4vps.com/?affid=1881&_ga=2.233890075.4420892...


Vimeo, which the original person was using, is a paid service.


The problem with peertube is that it leaks your IP to everyone else watching the video.

I've been looking at the same thing.


The videos don't have to be on your standard host. You could stick them on S3 or something, which might be cheaper, and is more portable than Vimeo or YouTube.


> I don't think I'm save at Youtube either, I just didn't have a better idea at the time.

Ever thought of hosting the videos just like you would any other static file?


What are the financial and technical implications of this?


One nasty implication is that adaptive bandwidth streaming as YouTube and Vimeo provide is tricky to get right. It’s definitely beyond “any other static file.”

It’s a nice feature to allow clients to stream the max bitrate they can handle without buffering. Without this, you sacrifice either quality of those with good connections, or the complete experience of those with poor ones. I ended up struggling with ffmpeg and JPlayer which is never a good day.

Additionally, you need to make sure you use the right codec, something supported on FF, Chrome, and Linux/Mac/Windows/Android/iOS. Due to codec power struggles, this is not self evident.

Hosting video is harder than it seems :(


On Digital Ocean's S3-compatible service for example, $5/month gets you 250GB storage and 1TB egress. $0.02/GB additional storage and $0.01/GB additional egress.

So if you have 5GB of videos that ALL get watched 10,000 times you will be out $500, so maybe problematic. Or calculated another way, 2.2mbps is good for 720p and comes out to 1GB/hour, so your cost is basically $0.01 per hour of video streamed (plus $5/month).


That's the case of premature optimization.

You are not going to get even one video watched 10k times, not to mention all of those videos. 10K video views is pretty darn close to head rather than the tail.

If you did, you would be making a million a year like @BrunchBoys on IG and hiring people to build an independent platform so when Youtube/Google/FB shut you down you would still have a way to deliver your awesome videos and make money.

P.S. You can always proxy EC2 traffic through the Lightsail to have a cheap delivery.


Or, you might get a random HN/Reddit (Slashdot, haha) hug of love, and that's -500 USD for you, and no +1 000 000 at the end of the year, because it was a one time thing.


I heart a lot of these magic hugs of love and I can tell you excluding teen boy bands with a gaggle of screaming teenage girls using their phones to live stream from concerts or pirate pay per view boxing matches I have never seen anything close to it.

10K views of a video that's more than a few minutes long is a big deal. Having a hundred of those means a producer is either a celebrity or a real business specializing in video content.


You might get 10k people to start watching a video. They're not each going to watch five hours.


How does this change with a CDN on front? Are those prices similar, more expensive or less?


CloudFront is $0.085 per GB out, S3 is almost the same.

But as far as I know, CF has more free traffic than S3.


The financial implications depend a lot on your provider. AWS has usurious prices at 90 USD/TB, with Google Cloud and Azure being similarly expensive.

While traditional hosters often include traffic with their offerings or charge a much lower amount. For example Hetzner (Big traditional German hoster) costs 1 EUR/TB and traffic is inclusive with most bigger/dedicated offers.


> usurious

Nitpick: you mean either "extortionate" or something to do with ogliopolies, cartels, and price fixing; usury is when the perpetrator charges interest on a non-defaultable loan.


I think in this case this word was used for simple dramatic emphasis, and somehow usury seems like a more white-collar thing than extortion, so maybe felt like the better "analogy"?


Technically its pretty easy with the video tag and HTML5. Financially it will probably not be an issue unless their videos become very popular and at that point they could always move elsewhere or pay for more bandwidth. But discoverability is an issue. People search for videos on Youtube, but no one will know about your personal domain.


Technically, your users will get a sub-par experience.

Those on 3g will have to wait ages for the video to buffer. Those on an old device won't be able to play it at all if you used new codecs. Users won't be able to select playback quality, and on a slow connection, they'll get endless buffering.

You'll have to come up with your own systems for counting how many people viewed the video and which bits they bailed out on. You'll have to reinvent caption translations and go to extra effort to get captions working at all.

Self hosted videos have mostly died for the above reasons.


I managed to do adaptive streaming as a 14 year old (in 2014) and it worked for 10 000 people. It didnt cost me that much, given I made profit of 80$ off of adsense before being banned and almost sued but thats a different thing.

The point is with HLS or DASH and CloudFlare you can provide the exact same experience to all your users. You can easily automate the process, which I've done. All other problems are already solved by player software like Clappr, JWPlayer, VideoJS, etc. They all use HLS.js and Dash.js in the background...


Adaptive streaming doesn't seem to be a difficult problem to solve. Most cloud providers offer video streaming services that can transparently sit in front of your domain or you can serve something like HLS or MPEG-DASH files through an appropriate js player. I must admit though I have no personal experience with this and am sure any home-rolled solution will be vastly inferior to Youtube et al, but it is possible and may satisfy the use cases of many people who don't want to put all their eggs into one basket.


> Those on 3g will have to wait ages for the video to buffer. Those on an old device won't be able to play it at all if you used new codecs.

This advice is pretty stale: 3G is rather old by now – 4G came out in 2009 – and unless you’re still supporting IE8 HTML5 makes it easy to let the browser select from multiple sources (subtitles have similarly had wide support for at least half a decade). Properly hinted video will start playing pretty quickly — certainly not massively slower than someone with 3G on an old device is going to experience everywhere else, especially since that old device isn’t going to pick the 4K version anyway.


> This advice is pretty stale: 3G is rather old by now – 4G came out in 2009

When traveling to places with 4G or LTE coverage I'm often downgraded to 3G or edge. My parents' home has mostly 2G/edge connectivity, with some spotty 3G coverage on the second floor. They're "only" on the outskirts of a greater metropolitan area.

Just because some tech is old doesn't mean it's not very much still relevant.


You can’t look at this without considering the context: yes, there are areas with marginal coverage (I also have relatives in that situation) but if you’re in one of them you are either not watching video over cellular because the experience is unpleasant or you’re used to it being slow and an extra second to start is a drop in the bucket. The number of people who are on very slow connections who are also highly latency sensitive just isn’t a significant percentage of users for most sites, and most sites have many areas for performance improvements before they need to tackle that problem.


I actually force my cellphone to 3G since I can watch everything in 1080p with it and I never lose connection like I do with 4G


You can provide links for different qualities and let user decide which one is better. Subtitles are supported by HTML video tag, you don't need to invent anything.


I see... I think dev.to, the blogging platform I use, supports video-uploads too.

Otherwise, I'll take a look into S3/CloudFront.

Didn't even think that far, lol. Thanks for the info!


That of course depends on how popular your videos becomes, but for the 99% videos I would say none since you already pay for hosting your web site.


You could host them on some peertube instance

https://joinpeertube.org/en/#register


You can also use something like Peertube or another implementation of WebTorrent.


People say google has good engineers, and that their systems have few bugs. However, their algorithmic bugs routinely de-platform people and often seem to take away people’s incomes (eg, the AdWords people losing accounts every other day). To me, that sounds like one of the most severe types of bugs possible and the Internet is rife with these stories


There's an easy way to tell that this did not actually happen. The person reporting this claims that they were notified that the account was suspended for "using 3rd party app outside of Play Store to go around Youtube ads".

Now think about any of the previous similar stories you've seen over the years. Doesn't even have to be about a full account being suspended. E.g. maybe it's about an app or extension being removed from a store, or about a site being removed from the search index, etc. The messages will always have been quite vague on exactly what happened, e.g. just saying that there was a violation of the terms of service.

The level of specificity claimed by the poster is just totally implausible.


(Disclaimer: Googler here, but no relationship with Android team other than as a normal user)

Another pointer leading to a probable troll on this one: the original OP's nick is just a bunch of profanities in Finnish [1].

Oh, how can they receive an email stating the account suspension if the account was suspended in the first place?

[1] (careful; NSFW) https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=auto...


This makes it especially hilarious. You can spot the fake by the utter implausibility of Google giving a single fuck about explaining their actions to a mere mortal. There isn't even a hypothetical mortal in hypothetical existence that could hypothetically expect such abundant largesse.


These huge TOS agreements are akin to governmental authoritarian control. Everyone has broken something in them, we are all a criminal. Knowing this, we all live in fear knowing that it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when' the government/corporate overlord can cancel everything we've been working on or living for because of an obscure clause that no one has ever read, which was created for this very purpose.


> ”because of an obscure clause that no one has ever read, which was created for this very purpose.”

I don’t like that OP was locked out of his email.

But besides that, it’s not as if he broke some obscure TOS clause. He actively subverted the company’s revenue model to take its product for free. That’s about as obvious as it gets that you’re risking being blocked from a service.


> He used specialized software to subvert the company’s revenue model and take its product for free.

How is this different than using an ad blocker in the browser?


Google linked the usage of New Pipe with the Google Account (despite the person not being logued into their account in New Pipe) and blocked it from all Google services.

Imagine you using adblock in the CNN website without being logged in and they block your access to all Time Warner services (for example HBO).


That sounds like it could only be a good thing, to help you free yourself from the intellectual pablum and misleading narratives they produce. I for one encourage these companies to ban all of us from everything, the sooner the better, so we can be effectively galvanized into making real alternatives instead of the Tivoized bullshit Android has become.


Legally? It isn't really. (Your question was rhetorical, wasn't it?) Sure, maybe courts could separate these two issues on other grounds (such as using a side-channel for banning people based on the mere existence of an ad-blocker versus detecting the exact instance of blocking the ad from showing/playing somehow) - but from the point of the ToS, it's a clear deal. You get to access to YT but you have to watch ads. No ads, no YT.

That said, fuck that. It's not like people haven't been subverting ads for ages. (From the simple pause recording when the ad starts, rewind just a tad bit and resume-recording when the movie continues to Pi-Hole and Blockada on Android.)


pretty sure even with my adblocker, I still see the "watch 5 seconds and skip ad" ads. May've configured it that way, not sure, been a while.

But to your question, if the ad blocker is subverting the company's revenue model and they can detect it, you risk the company blocking you. Per the Issue, it looks like the service that is there to scan for bad actors on your device may've picked up that NewPipe was installed on their device which may've caused them to look (speculation on all counts).


Yeah, something with your config. I don't see those using uBlock Origin.


I got the impression the GP is describing precisely that.


NewPipe is a video downloader, different from an adblocker.


TIL.

Would that mean that using progs like `youtube-dl` to fetch videos from Youtube may get your Goog Account deleted?


I don't think you even can login with youtube-dl.


You can. That's how you can download private videos


It does seem similar. If you don't want to see the ads, don't use the service.

I don't use an ad blocker, and if I don't want to see ads I pay for the service, such as with Reddit, Ars Technica, Windows Live Mail, Netflix, and YouTube. Technically, I quit Netflix once they started showing me ads, even though they were for their own shows (general dark patterns were the more significant factor though).


Where do you draw that line though? If I take steps to ignore/block ads that don't involve software -- like muting during ads or flipping the phone over -- am I subverting the company's revenue model? How much do I need to "see" ads?


A very good question. Muting a TV seems OK on the surface to me, but only because it is normal to me. When actually thinking about it, I realize that muting TV ads is similar to web ad blocking.

So in principle I would have to say that one shouldn't mute TV ads, or skip them using +10 second buttons. Of course I will not always live my life up to that principle...


Right. It's like the slow march towards the future from the fifteen million merits episode of black mirror.


> It does seem similar. If you don't want to see the ads, don't use the service.

That just doesn't make sense. Not using their services has zero advantages compared to blocking ads. But by using them, you raise their costs, making their business model less viable.

> I don't use an ad blocker, and if I don't want to see ads I pay for the service, such as with Reddit, Ars Technica, Windows Live Mail, Netflix, and YouTube.

By paying for services, you show that you have disposable income. You cannot escape ads that way except in the short term.


Now should I be worried about using YouTube vanced app. Same thing there to isn't it?


You don't get it.


And given that emails are akin to a home address these days, you can be locked out of your entire life. Google can wipe a person off the map. Bank accounts, health care, billing, everything is tied to email accounts and phones tied to google accounts.


"Show me the man and I’ll show you the TOS Violation"


Google isn't nearly old enough to have the vast web of cross-contradictory regulations that a government does. I sincerely doubt most users even interface with it enough to risk violating the TOS.


Well, if you accept TFA, all it can take is blocking ads that Google really wants to show you.


Not everyone does that. I don't. ;)


I hope I will never have to go to a country that is so badly run that a private, non-democratic company without any rule of law and a customer "support" bureaucracy that could be greatly improved by making it kafkaesque looks good in comparison.


I see this meme a lot on the internet, especially when the US political justice system comes up lately, and it shows just how little our generation and younger care about how government works, is intended to work, and what to do when it doesn't work, the latter point being the most important. Going to social media and complaining, for example, is a good example of what not to do.

The control is only authoritarian if those being controlled by it have no recourse. As applied to governments, authoritarianism has strong central power and limited political freedoms. In the US, we believe in the principles of limited central power, and many political freedoms. (Whether or not this is the situation depending on who you are is the topic of another day because this is how it should be, and the only way it may have become not that is if we have allowed our complacencies to kick in and allow it to happen. I am a firm believer in the concept of "people get the government they deserve in a democracy." ) Ultimately the governmental authoritarian control is beholden to the people and can be eradicated. The only reason we feel as if it can't be is because we have allowed the power to creep up over the years and it seems like an insurmountable mountain, but rest assured if you pick up that pick axe and start chipping away rock by rock you absolutely can tear it down.

Likewise, authoritarianism applied to a corporation implies strong central power, and limited consumer freedoms. This is also patently false in the US. The US has anti-trust laws to prevent centralized control, consumer protection agencies, and the free market. The consumer ultimately always has the freedom to choose another option. If the corporation loses too many consumers, then the corporation goes under. I understand there is a lot of nuance, but this is the basic principles of how things should operate in this country, and the mechanisms for things to operate are in fact there. The question then becomes what are it's people doing about it?


> the only way it may have become not that is if we have allowed our complacencies to kick in

Just wanted to observe that this belief presupposes the US ever lived up to the principles you outline. US history shows that the country has never quite lived up to its touted values.


> The US has anti-trust laws to prevent centralized control, consumer protection agencies, and the free market. The consumer ultimately always has the freedom to choose another option.

You had me going until this, nice satire


Hey dude, it looks like you're shadowbanned from HN. Just thought you should know.


show me a successful peaceful revolution anywhere in world ever in the history of the world.


Every time there is a change of party in a modern government.

It is so commonplace that we miss it, but one ruling organization steps down and another, often with opposing views, steps up.



Thank you


Women basically asked for the right to vote, and got it.


Danish constitution

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Denmark

(Though it probably helped that the French Revolution had happened before ;))


Those are called "election". The entire idea of an electoral democracy is that you have them once in a while, so the government stays aligned with the public wishes.


Every time an automatic google account suspension comes up, I like to let everyone know that my google adsense account has been suspended for 15 years. I’m still waiting waiting for my follow up on why.

Even 15 years ago right after they launched the service they were already having computers make decisions without human review or oversight.


For six years now I've been trying to use Google Play Music, but enter a comical loop of errors that neither the support staff nor their eng team shows any understanding of[1]. They always run through the same utterly useless script of suggestions, even when I make it painfully clear that I've already tried each of them multiple times.

I've had similar experiences with most of Google's services, including my phone nearly being bricked due to a cyclic error on Play Store. I keep a list of these little joys (on gdocs, ironically).

It was hard enough getting someone to look at these insanely frustrating errors and problems when I was a SWE there and could pinpoint someone who could fix them. Fixing these problems doesn't advance anyone's career, so nobody is incentivized to care. The idea of getting anything resolved from "out here" is just comical. Instead, I get to +1 a report on their forums, where one of their "community experts" gleefully tells us not to worry, someone will probably fix it someday. And in the meantime, have you tried power cycling? Because, Google! (Cue cute xylophone music.)

[1] Guess I'm not the only one with problems. Two stars for the Chrome app that's required: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/google-play-music/.... Does anyone actually care at Google? I doubt it. Too many cool new features to build to worry about existing ones working. Someday I might even write up a piece on how I was shipped off to the Goolag (Google Seattle) because I insisted on having a team to keep our product's data up to date.


In the meantime, can I interest you in a new social network and/or chat platform?


My adsense account seems to be permanently stuck in limbo too. Every once in a while I get an email that my payments are on hold because I have no payment method (a little over $100 sitting in there).

Attempts to add a payment method always fail and it won't let me remove the one that doesn't seem to be working. The help support articles linked on that same page 404 and I can't seem to find a way to get any assistance on the issue. It has been stuck like this for years, occasionally I try to remedy it and end up in the same loop. It is extremely frustrating.


Eventually Google will release it to your state as unclaimed funds which you can then claim. I think it took them 7 years to send my $70 over. never could cash it out as it wasn't at the threshold.


I have the same exact story, it happened about 10+ years ago. I had a banner on a small community forum and they banned my AdSense account for life for click fraud. Of course I never clicked on my ads and the revenue was few cents. They never replied - except for automatic replies that the decision is final.


JFC that’s insane. They are never getting back to you at this point. Whoever flagged your account probably doesn’t even work there anymore.


You never had Raldi fix / look into it?


To be honest this sounds like some fake story. NewPipe really don't use any Google credentials and even considering how little trust I have in Google I don't buy like they going to buy account this this kind of stuff. Like seriously think on it: why should they ban someone based off IP address alone that can be shared with many devices / accounts.


I'm inclined to agree because of one contradiction in the issue: they say they got an email when they were banned but then they say they can't access their Gmail to provide proof because they were banned. Either your account stays unbanned for a few minutes so your Gmail can sync in which case it should still be available offline, it's on another email which they can still access, or they're lying.


You can provide alternate email addresses for recovery, etc for google accounts.


True, but the person in question was asked in the thread to provide a screenshot of the email.

To which they replied that they couldn't because the account was locked. That certainly doesn't seem to add up, though it might just be a mis-communication.


Same reaction. I'm skeptical this story is true. I've never heard of Google banning a user over blocking ads before -- frankly, even with the amount of crap I usually give Google, this feels out of character for them.

Lots of people use NewPipe with unrooted phones, so if it is an actual policy, we should see more widespread bans. If we don't, I'm going to dismiss it as, "we don't have the full story, or its made up entirely."

That being said, of course you should take steps to mitigate the impacts of being banned by Google. But you should have been doing that anyway, so I don't think this story changes anything.

But... no, I wouldn't panic over using NewPipe.


I don't know anything about this specific story, and won't comment on it. But, this is actually a common attack vector that people with nefarious purposes use. They come up with a story that makes some company look bad, but leave out important details (like they were trying to hijack accounts, spamming, etc...). Some of these people will do this either to get policies changed in their benefit, or as a form of revenge for getting caught.

It's important to remember that all stories have 2 sides, and to consider other possibilities when you only hear one side of a story.


I used to work with Google's account abuse team. The company will never comment on suspensions, so you are right that you only get 1 side. Every consumer account suspension I ever looked into was due to severe abuse on the part of the account holder: folders full of child porn, account being used to spam or distribute viruses, etc. Every advertiser account that some jerk whined about being "wrongly suspended for no reason omg google is satan" was actually due to either click fraud or advertisers' sites distributing malware. Whenever you see one of these complaints you should reach for a massive, galaxy-scale grain of salt.

In this case however the account holder is being totally up front about their activities: they were using a proxy network to rip off YouTube. This is a bit like Trump committing treason on live TV and then later whining about impeachment on Twitter. What's in question is not the facts but the policy.


This is absolutely nonsense. My colleagues account was suspended for using PayPal and not Google wallet, one startup was suspended because their dev had multi sign-in, my account was suspended because of "app likeness" or whatever bullshit, people were suspended for reselling pixel, wrong credit card info, pseudo names on Google plus, dmca violation, copy right violation on YouTube, competitors hitting report, false copy right and the list goes on.


Out of curiosity, how did you notice folders were full of child porn? Do operators have access to mail folders and / or use to check randomly on people emails?


They shared it and someone reported it, 100% of the time. Complaints are verified by special contractors whose mental health is sacrificed for child safety.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/reyhan/tech-confessiona...


My understanding is that hosting companies use hashes of known material in combination with automated scanning. Also, that some companies may not want to tell you much about how they do it, because the act of identifying it means looking at it, which is illegal (I have not researched this, I might well be wrong/inaccurate)


I'm pretty sure looking at it isn't the illegal part. Making, possessing, and distributing are the illegal bits. Maybe some other aspects too, like transporting or buying or some form of conspiring? I don't think the government (at least the US gov't) can actually make looking at anything illegal. But it's hard to look at something that's restricted in that way without doing at least one of the illegal things.

If just looking were illegal, you could shove it in someone's face on the sidewalk and they'd instantly be guilty of a serious crime.


I don’t understand, you’re saying this case is believable? That Google treats this the same as folders full of child porn?


Some commenters on the thread suggested that Play Protect reports to Google that your device (linked to your account) uses this app. I'm not sure that's true, but I disabled it nonetheless.


They wouldn't. But if there's enough secondary signal for them to determine what account is running the access that is grabbing videos but not ads (i.e. do NewPipe's requests carry the phone IMEI? Can Google correlate that IMEI to a user account?), Google could lock down the account.

What the user describes sounds like an account lockdown, not an IP ban.


It sounds to me like this user was banned for an entirely different reason. Like for example, someone stole his login credentials, fired up hundreds of VM's on GCloud, and started mining Monero.


User does claim they received a message from Google "saying that I was using 3rd party app outside of Play Store to go around Youtube ads." We haven't seen a copy of that message, but I'm assuming we can take it at face-value.


You can't assume it at face-value, because how could he receive the email if he's banned?


Why would you assume one sentence of an anonymous person on the Internet should be taken at face value?

'shadowgovt owes me 12.3 BTC.


If we don't assume that on average, we have very little to talk about. ;)


>do NewPipe's requests carry the phone IMEI?

It doesn't have the required permissions to get IMEI, so no.


I had the same intuition as well. I'm wondering if this is a scare story generated by a google employee to get people to stop using NewPipe.


or stop using google ?


Good point


Or generated by a Google opposer to get people to stop using Google.


The culprit could be Google Play protect. You need to use a google account to use Google Play, and then Google Play periodically scans apps, even if they aren't downloaded from Google Play like F-Droid (even apps I loaded for testing using adb). So that scan, whose results are sent back to google could reveal NewPipe and associate that with your account.


There are multiple ways for Google to know that NewPipe is installed in a device. Play Protect scanning is one way mentioned in the OP’s github link. Another method I can think is, when I download a mp3 file using newpipe, it adds the text “NewPipe” for the Album mp3 tag. and PlayMusic automatically uploads any new mp3 file downloaded to your device.


Also isn't there another setting to track app usage activity on Android? I'm pretty certain that also keeps a record of opening and using apps outside of just what's on the Play store as well. If anything I'd suspect that was used rather than Play Protect.


For me it's hard to believe that Google can identify which Google user account is used to run NewPipe.


IP address? But if they really did that, this could be grounds for a serious lawsuit. I have a suspicion that the poster is not being entirely honest.


I can't stress this enough: Use FastMail (and pay for it), it's better than GMail and doesn't pull this kind of shit on you. The post is very alarming, but at least you have a better option when it comes to arguably the most important part of Google, your email.

It's super cheap (I prepaid for two years or something and it came out to less than $3/mo), faster than Gmail and won't kill your life.

EDIT: I hear Protonmail is also good, just use one of the two. They're great.


Also use your own domain. Even if your email provider shuts down or shuts you out, you'll still have access to your domain.


Unless the domain was purchased using Google Domains? Then what happens if the owner's Google account is killed?


Pretty sure Google would be required to allow you to transfer the domain to another registrar.


I’ve been self-hosting my email (and for a handful of people) for two years now. Feels great.


Yes, this is very important.


I recently started using Fastmail for a new project I'm working on. The web app might be the snappiest I've ever used. Way better than Gmail. Protonmail is painfully slow in comparison. I'm seriously considering switching everything to Fastmail, but there's always a ton a FUD about surveillance when comparing them to Protonmail. But there's always a lot of FUD thrown at Prontonmail, too. Hard to know how much is true.


Can confirm, I use Fastmail and it is very nice. (Protonmail looks reasonable and popular as well, but I have no direct experience with it.)


Tutanota is also pretty good. Protonmail was also pretty great. (I used them both, currently at Tutanota)


+1 for Tutanota. Recently switched. It's a breeze to use and far more reliable than I ever found my previous email provider to be.


Fastmail isn't as privacy-safe as other alternatives. I used Fastmail for a while and recently switched to mailfence.


In what way?


Australian laws allowing the government to compel backdoors


I weighed this for awhile because it was a concern for me. I finally did end up moving my organization off Google Suite to Fastmail and I haven't looked back.

Australia's government sucks ass, yes. But Fastmail seems focused on its product and has been conveying their positions and opposition to such legislation. Google does not do this, they run Google Suite like it's an automated hobby project. I'm quite certain that it's more likely that our data with Google would be used to provide data sets that could be used for advertising or sold/adapted to state surveillance (sensorvault anyone?). Even if it wasn't, we're still worse off when they arbitrarily suspend accounts and only provide us with outsourced customer service lacking an escalation path that only takes calls overnight.

Fastmail wrote a blog post about the law: https://fastmail.blog/2018/09/10/access-and-assistance-bill/


Seconded. Fastmail's support is great. I had some issue trying to sync emails with my laptop that messed up all the dates on my email (I don't remember the details) and fastmail support told me what I was doing wrong and wrote a script to correct all the dates on their server. I was blown away.


I'd like to, but none of the other services offer Priority Inbox. Even if they did, I've spent years training Gmail what is and is not spam. It's nearly perfect now. That would be super hard to replicate.


Outlook.com offers something very similar to priority inbox, and in my experience it works quite well from the get go.

Not telling you it'll definitely work for you, but there is something similar out there.


Sure but is that really any different than gmail? Both are free services. Also, I'd still have to retrain it.


- google pay

- google maps

These are the two things I find more or less impossible to replace on android. For Pay, there is no alternative at all. For Maps, there is Osmand, which is good as static map, but not for finding addresses.


Google Maps' map data can be replaced by Microsoft/Here/TomTom data, or OSM-based maps (OsmAnd, maps.me). Apple Maps seems to be unavailable outside of iOS, not even through third-party apps or a website, as far as I know.

Mapbox does realtime traffic these days, https://benmaps.fr can show this layer (I haven't found that button in mobile view though, might need to do a pull request), as well as your local traffic authority probably or some other local companies.

Business info can be found through regular search engines, or if that is really difficult, then you can always fall back to google maps every once in a while.

Street view is not available where I live anyway, and Mapillary is doing reasonably. They also have OsmAnd integration. OpenStreetCam is another alternative.

Satellite imagery is not exclusive to google maps either, there are lots of sources for this, and often also plane-shot imagery from your local government. You can configure a layer in OsmAnd. Personally I use Bing Maps most frequently for this (not the app, just bing.com/maps) since it is a lot more smooth/lightweight than the awfully heavy google maps website. (I don't really use sat imagery on mobile anyway.)

Trip recording ("location history" in google) can be done with OsmAnd or many other apps as well. I configured it to automatically turn on when routing: then I have GPS on anyway and I might as well store the data. Often fun to see stats afterwards (max speed, avg speed, asc/descend, or sometimes it's practical to see the time it took).

I think that should cover the functionality of google maps.

Google pay I never heard of, unless you mean paying for apps in the Play Store, in which case the solution is to contact the developers directly, though they usually don't seem to care enough to get you as a customer (I tried this four times, never got a reply, thus never became a customer since quitting google play).

Hope this helps!


DuckDuckGo has Apple Maps, and there's an API.


Oh, that's right. Then I just don't know where (other than via DDG) to find their map. I do remember trying to use Apple maps via the Apple website and that didn't work (some months ago).


"there is no alternative at all"

If you don't want to use Google Pay, can you not just carry a credit card?


Maps.me (https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.axet.maps/) seems a bit better for finding addresses


Is Square Cash on Android? It has a physical debit card option.


There is Samsung Pay


I can also recommend posteo.de and mailbox.org Worth checking out imho


Shout out for Hushmail https://www.hushmail.com/ Happy user for many years now.


This. If you want to be respected, use a service provider that values your business. Google ain't one of them.


It's not easy to just switch. I have a lot of services tied to my Google account including drive documents.


You don't have to switch all of them at once, switching your email is pretty easy.


I have been using ProtonMail for a year now and am very happy with the service.


Runbox is good too.


I haven't had a Google account for over 5 years now, after my account got suspended for no apparent reason. The only thing I can think of that raised the alarm at Google was that I created two other accounts using the same IP and device, and Google must have thought I was gaming their system and engaging in some sort of Sybil attack[0] on their network. Two other accounts is hardly grounds for suspension. But 100 or even 1000 other accounts and Google are within their rights to ban me.

Anyways I since switched to Protonmail for frivolous web signups & registering on sites, and then I use Fastmail for various business dealings / freelancing / anything related to finance like Paypal, online banking, etc. I simply can't afford to be arbitrarily banned by Google again.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_attack


I use to have three Gmail accounts (notifications, mailing lists and personal). After the 2012 domestic spying revelations, I deleted all of them, extracted all my Gmail and hosted my own. It's so much nicer than dealing with Google's fucking terribly broken IMAP interface and over aggressive spam filter (which has bitten me too):

https://battlepenguin.com/tech/how-google-and-microsoft-made...

..although e-mail delivery has seemed to be getting better in the past year.

My current Google account has no g-mail connected to it, which has lead to some interested bugs in Hangouts (you can't search for Google contacts once G+ went away, even if you clearly see them in current chats).

I also host my own Calendar/Contacts using Radicale + DavX (formerly DavDroid)


> over aggressive spam filter

I want to emphasize just how bad the spam filtering has gotten. I didn't realize it for a long time, but now that I check the spam folder regularly I've realized that a LOT of legit emails get flagged by Google. Even ridiculously obvious stuff, like a non-automated reply to an email that I initiated sometimes gets flagged as spam.


Unless I'm wrong Google explicitly allows you to use multiple Google Accounts for different purposes, unlike say Facebook. Were all your accounts banned together or your main account was closed for creating the rest? In any case they should give valid reason for account closure... this is just unethical.


I was about to mention this. I've been setting up some things for a new business and somewhere along the lines Google explicitly recommended creating a new account.


Sounds like some trolling to me, especially since he can't produce the email. If Google was actually doing this they would have emailed other NewPipe users, not just this one guy.


I find it perfectly plausible that Google would suspend someone's account arbitrarily. Even if it's not true, it is a reminder that Google can and will suspend your account and fuck up your life because of some algorithm, and you should probably do something about it.


The most likely scenario to me is that Google did suspend the account, but either this is not the reason, or it was only a minor aspect of the algorithm's decision. People are often bad at figuring out what they did wrong when you send a message explaining exactly what it was, people are hopeless when they get no message at all, which is how these suspensions work.

The assurance that they've used no other apps I put little faith in; I've too often both delivered and received the incorrect "but I'm sure I did nothing else, it had to be this!" claim. We do a lot of things without forming strong memories of them all the time. No offense intended to the original reporter, it's just my experience says that's rarely a highly trustworthy claim, even when trustworthy people make it.


You're exactly right. It's been my experience from community moderation that you can give people an itemized list of things they did that led to a response, and often all they'll take away from reading it is the one item they have a strong emotional reaction to.


I took a look at this user's GitHub activity, and it seems they have been using NewPipe daily. It's not trolling probably.


Their system isn't even likely detecting NewPipe. It is probably detecting signals indicating the ads it serves are being blocked and the user's account isn't a Premium account. Any client that failed to vend the ads (or failed to spoof the ads-vended signals) could trigger this.

(Obvious solution: use the approved clients.)


You can't log in with an account to newpipe though. It is pulling videos off youtube as if it was a browser on the phone.


Has anyone wiresharked its transactions to Google? If it's literally doing it like it's a browser, what cookies or storage API (or other) state is it leaking?


It's all open source. Not sure what info it is leaking tho. https://github.com/TeamNewPipe/NewPipe#Description


NewPipe itself is open-source. It's using the OS infrastructure to make requests (https://github.com/TeamNewPipe/NewPipe/blob/ce17ccad27af0aba...).

One would have to do a deep-read of the implementation of those APIs to know what they might leak (or toss a packet sniffer in the network stack).


This seems like an argument from ignorance. eg. "Well, there's no evidence to support this hypothesis, but it could be x (no proof given), so unless we look into x, we won't know for sure".

Using the system browser or webview doesn't send any user identifying information (other than device type and version) in http requests. There's no plausible reason why using the download manager API would do it either.


I'm not sure I'd call it an argument, but the ignorance part was right (note upthread this began with a question as to whether anyone had attempted to packet capture on what NewPipe is sending in a session).

There isn't evidence other than the user in question's account apparently got banned and they claim to be using NewPipe. So it's one possible avenue of further investigation if one tries to figure out how Google would even know to ban a user that was using a tool that allows connection to YouTube anonymously.


If Google PlayProtect is enabled it'll be aware of the NewPipe app on the phone or any other Google components may track its usage. Alternatively Youtube could detect the newpipe usage on their end and cross check with the client IP adress collected via the regular YT app. It's certainly possible to detect it.


Google does not care about one user not seeing ads. It isn't worth even 5 seconds of an engineer's time.

But if that guy built a custom build of NewPipe that did a million simultaneous downloads, and that impacted service availability for other users, that would make Google ban him.


Does Gmail give access to your emails when your Google Account is suspended?


Pretty sure the answer is no.


Under GDPR, they legally have to if you request it.


No, they'll delete the data and say they have none.


Not to be that guy, but do you have anything to back that claim up? I'd love to know if it's actually true or not; it seems like GDPR is often used as a catch-all magic wand for "I want my data therefore the company has to give it to me", but I'd love to know if it actually applies in the case of a terminated/suspended account and/or an account found to be in violation of the service's terms & conditions.


Ctrl+F for my comment above to see how they won't give you anything in response to a GDPR request.


You could just link to your comment:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21248111

(I assume that's the one you meant. "Ctrl-F" is very vague when you have a bunch of comments in this thread.)


Apologies - on mobile, it was tricky to get the link without losing context - and I thought that the info was relevant.


One of my GMail accounts was fairly recently disabled due to Google not recognizing any device logging into the account. I had to dig up some old Android phone to even attempt recovery which was unsuccessful. After I involved some of my Google contacts, the account was back within 2 days, yet while my phone can log in, none of my other computers are allowed to log in. I am guessing something in their ML system went seriously wrong in some corner cases (in my case, accessing the same account from >10 computers/phones/tablets on different operating systems via Firefox with private browsing, likely triggering their anomaly detection).


Yeah, unfortunately, that smells a lot like a coordinated attack on a specific user's account.

Do you have the enhanced security features turned on? Google's systems trust the logins more if you have to 2-factor them against a phone or somesuch.


No enhanced security, I travel a lot abroad with different phones and can't handle SMS or some type of authenticator reliably.

I completely get it being flagged, I even wrote ML/DL-based anomaly detector for mobile stuff myself, but it really gets in the way, so I switched my primary account over to ProtonMail.


I hear that. :)

I had the opposite problem not too long ago; was away for a relative's wedding and had my phone die during the trip. Even after replacing the phone, getting back into my Google account on the new phone was a chore, because the phone that died was all my trusted devices (2FA key holder and receiver of phone calls for verification at the same time).

Oops. :-p


> was all my trusted devices (2FA key holder and receiver of phone calls for verification at the same time).

That's not actually two factor authentication anymore. Also that's pretty typical of 'two' factor authentication systems IME.


Yeah, it feels like walking on eggshells these days wrt security... Either paranoid, or locked out.


One very good reason to regularly download backups of gmail inbox, and if possible simply stop using it eventually.


Yep after reading a very similar story a couple of years ago (Google account closed and no recourse given) I’ve migrated all of my important accounts and subscriptions away from gmail and into an email address associated to a domain that I own. Now Gmail and Outlook.com are only used for spammy stuff that I don’t care about


What's the point of Google Photos if I've to keep backup. They may choose to lock me out and I've lost all my memories.


Never rely on a single cloud service for your backup. Always backup to at least one independent place such as a local hard drive or another cloud provider.


This. I suggest iCloud, Dropbox, Lightroom, OneDrive, or Ever. I often take advantage of “free trials” to upload all my photos to these services periodically. Once your free trial expires you can’t upload more photos but they hold onto the existing ones indefinitely.

I also use a NAS device (cheap!) and a lifetime Plex account for my viewer. Only iOS “live” photos are inconvenient to back up anywhere but iCloud so I don’t take many Live Photos.


I have all of my photos in a RAID 1 at home, and I regularly "rclone" all of them to Backblaze B2. I have all of them inside Google Photos because that's how I view them, but I don't consider it to be a backup. It's just a much more convenient way to access the photos from many devices, and share them with friends and family.

Apart from that, I keep a Google Takeout archive the same way (RAID 1, B2)


Google Photos is not a backup system. It’s a place to host photos in the cloud. You need your own backup somewhere else.


Don't keep your photos in only one place if you care about them, even if that place is Google.

Google Photos is a handy worst-case backup for your photos, but it's not magic and you really need to keep another copy somewhere.


And be as independent of google services as possible.


I seem to remember a website that helped people "de-google" (something like that), where it listed self hosted alternatives, or other cloud services with better customer service track records.



is it https://degooglisons-internet.org/en/alternatives/ ? This is done by framasoft, a French association which is doing a nice job in promoting alternatives.



Any backup recommendations? Gmvault stopped working earlier this year, and for multi-gigabyte accounts via a connection that is prone to get interrupted every once in a while, I couldn't find anything that seemed as simple and robust (Gmvault allowed incremental backups, tolerated disconnections, ...).


Google Takeout.

I used to use offlineimap and as far as I know it should still work...


You scared me for a second until I checked my gmvault logs.

FYI, it still works.

It's true that I had to create my own google console project[1] to have my own tokens some months ago, but I think that's a very good move in any case.

[1] https://github.com/gaubert/gmvault/issues/335#issuecomment-4...


With all that GDPR stuff we have now shouldn't they actually be forced to let you download all your data in a simple way? I don't use GM for anything relevant but I'd totally abuse the "get my data" thing to backup stuff.


takeout.google.com


If you're using Mac, you could try https://thehorcrux.com/

Disclaimer: I'm the developer.


I'm surprised you managed to get the Copyright for 'Horcrux'. Did you have to licence it at all?


Hmm, I don't see "Do you have to destroy another email account in order to set it up?" on the FAQ list. I suppose, arguably, a user would be impelled to use the service by witnessing the destruction of an account near and dear to them, perhaps enough to split their soul...


I don't think there is any copyright on mere names of fictional objects (e.g. Palantir).


IANAL but with my 10 mins of googling I've found the following:

* Items/characters cannot be trademarked unless they are the source of goods or services (so therefore this service would have the right whereas JK. Rowling et al wouldn't) [1]

* Items/characters are copyrighted when featured in a copyrighted piece of fiction (which Horcruxes are). [1]

* JK Rowling et al are crazy litigious [2][3]

* JK seems to endorse/praise fan collections of stuff, but the team come down hard on people trying to sell that commercially. [2] That does, however, seem to be for publishing books eg. fan fact books.

[1] https://corporate.findlaw.com/intellectual-property/protecti...

[2] https://www.legallanguage.com/legal-articles/harry-potter-co...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_disputes_over_the_Harry_...


I was talking specifically about item names, not items / characters as a whole.


How is that different?


Shouldn't you make regular backups of your emails anyway, whichever alternative to GMail you use? And then what do you gain by switching in practical terms?

I do find these account suspensions terrifying. It's the biggest issue I have with using GMail, but I treat it like any very low probability event of shit happening to my data.


POP3 for the win!

(unlike IMAP, it only downloads things No way the server can tell the client to delete something)


> One very good reason to regularly download backups of gmail

And anything else you care about.

People were bad at backing up local data, but what they're worse at is backing up data that is in someone else's hands ("cloud").

Recently I was listening to a tech podcast (Tweakers, Dutch) and they discovered how dependent the presenters were on Spotify for their entire collection of playlists and library that they spent lots and lots of time gathering and curating. The reason I don't have this problem is because I already had this problem: Grooveshark happened to me. My music was all on there, including custom mp3s that I pulled from Youtube. So after spending some time importing all of that to Spotify from memory, I used the API calls to export my data from time to time. These days, people have it easy: just run a GDPR export from the Spotify website. (That reminds me, I should still email the guys at Tweakers.)

I guess I also grew up with data loss more than average. As someone who wrote code from ~12 years old, but who didn't understand the rest of their computer well enough to take proper care of it, the family computer guy had to reinstall it a bunch of times and I lost data every time for different reasons (he also didn't really give a damn). And I overwrote an external hard drive once when I thought that backup software would just put the backup there, not clone the disk. And 000webhost cancelled my account one summer. And a hard drive died, then (I actually had a backup!) the backup hard drive was accidentally destroyed by my little brother. In that summer, I lost all code, school documents, game save files, browsing history, chat history, nearly everything I ever did digitally. Taught me a thing or two...


Any good tools for automating this that are already out in the world?


gmvault


It stopped working earlier this year, due to OAuth API changes by Google, if I'm not mistaken. Or did you manage to get it working?


It still works for me


Step one: Sign up for a https://tutanota.com/ email account for $1 a day.

Step Two: Set up gmail to forward all emails to the new email account.

Step Three: Stop giving out your gmail address.

Step Four: Start marking all emails that get forwarded to you through gmail that you don't want to see as spam in gmail.

Step Five: Start migrating all real-life contacts and online accounts to use your tutanota email account.

-----------------------

SERIOUSLY, start paying for email from an email-specialized company in some European country with extremely strict privacy (such as Germany). GET OUT OF GMAIL and OUT OF U.S.A. EMAIL-BASED PROVIDRES A.S.A.P.


A dollar a day is quite expensive, you can get a domain and a email prodiver for like 5€ per month.

See for example this [Dutch provider](https://www.transip.nl/webhosting/) that I myself use, but it includes webhosting. So you can probably find email providers for less.


If all you need is mail on a custom domain you can find offers for 0.5€ per month.


The problem is how effective they are at killing spam. I'm sure most of us (I still use Gmail) would jump ship in a second if there was a decent alternative that doesn't force the user to spend time training a local antispam system. Admittedly, Google is really good at that.


I support this idea, but I wouldn't touch something like Tutanota or ProtonMail that doesn't support an open standard like IMAP (or doesn't provide it for the free tier or has "bridge" applications to install) for saving and archiving mails offline on a computer. Tutanota and ProtonMail are both walled gardens of their own making. I can't easily migrate out of Tutanota (or ProtonMail if I'm a free tier user) and take my emails elsewhere. I appreciate that they provide (or claim to provide) better encryption, but I like to have control over my data and where I have copies of in an easily accessible manner.

I'd suggest instead, for much cheaper, Posteo.de, Runbox.com, Mailbox.org, Mailfence.com or Migadu.


ProtonMail has an IMAP bridge.


Only for users in the paid tiers, as implied in my comment.


365 USD a year for an email account? That's literally more than I spend on netflix and amazon prime combined.


$1 a day for an email account? That's ridiculously expensive not just from an ad-paid perspective (gmail etc) but also compared to the market rate for reliable, feature rich fully paid by user services. Pay a tenth of that and you are already far away from the cheap end of that market.


it's actually ~ $1 per month


The commenter above has done a real dis-service to Tutanota if they've really quoted it at 30 times the price.


Yes, my mistake. If I could edit the post I would.


Ah, thank you.


$365/year seems ridiculously expensive. For comparison protonmail is 48 Euros per year.


I've used a similar process; my gmail has a vacation auto-responder that informs those contacting it that the address is not used for email. The auto-response does not include my actual email address.

Even still, I find that other people's address books are remarkably immutable and despite this auto-response having been employed for around five years I still have important emails directed at the dead address.


It is €12 a year, that is €1 a MONTH.


Serious question, which I'm hijacking this thread to ask since it's on everyone's mind:

- What's the best way to fully back up a G-Suite instance, so you could get back on your feet really quickly if something like this happened?

I use G-Suite for email and docs and a bunch of stuff for my company, and I'm willing to pay money to have it all backed up in real time and ready to switch in the event of a disaster.

What's the best way to do that? I know Spanning and Backupify are two popular solutions. Would be curious if anyone has experience.


Googling gave me this; https://support.google.com/a/answer/100458?hl=en

You should also run your email on your own domain, and make sure the registrar isn't Google nor requires them for logging in.


Maybe the Google Takeout-Feature? It lets you downloaded all of your data. Mails are stored in mbox-files, I don't know which other file formats are used for other Google services.


Many are suggestion Google takeout but I would prefer something I can run automated on a server that will make a continues backup.

Using takeout manually every so often is a pain.


This is frightening. I use newpipe and depend on Google for work, email, and data storage. I use Google cloud to host my websites, and Google domains to control their domain names. What's next? Will they suspend an account for using an adblocker on their website while using a browser?

The fact that Google would suspend their account instead of just blocking their access to YouTube is an abuse of their near-monopoly. I'll be taking steps to migrate off the Google stack for this.


I was similarly dependent on Google but started diversifying for exactly those reasons. Domains are with a third party, Email is (Fastmail with own domain, GMail still forwards), hosting is also a separate provider. If any provider now blocked my account this would still be bad but I could easily restore services.

Especially if your work depends on it, I would encourage everyone to do the same. No other company (including your bank) should be able to shut down your business and/or ruin you financially because they close your account temporarily.

At the same time, this also means you're less affected by discontinued products or price hikes.


At the very least, I recommend sharding your accounts for work, email, and data storage if you're nervous about those failing simultaneously.

The attack surface is larger than a TOS violation (someone could spear-phish your login credentials, or a coordinated attack on your account could lead to denial-of-service if Google can't disambiguate your legitimate attempts to login from attackers' attempts).


Yes. Whatever the real specifics of this particular case, some number of users will inevitably lose access to their accounts in a way that they can't recover from. Arguably, with business services, there will always to some way to reliably establish identity with fallback systems. But, at some point with free/ad-supported/etc. consumer services a provider is sometimes, if hopefully rarely, just going to go "Nope. Can't establish your identity or overlook this ToS violation. No recourse." and showing up in Mountain View with physical documentation isn't going to be an option.

It's not an ideal state of affairs. But the alternative would probably need to be more rigorous identity verification and locking down of systems.


I'm afraid I can't find the source, so take this with a grain of salt. But I seem to remember reading a few years ago about a small company having all their employee's Google accounts suspended because one of them had previously been banned for something, and his banned account then "infected" any other accounts it came into contact with, like common projects.

I question whether separate accounts would help, Google's automated systems probably connect them and bans all of them anyway.


This is pretty frightening. I have around 5 Gmail accounts that practically everything is filtered through, and while I don't use it, I did (just uninstalled it) have NewPipe installed on my phone, along with F-Droid, along with a number of apps I downloaded directly from github, that Google has no place knowing anything about.

If I lose those accounts, I'm pretty sure I'm screwed, there are many online services that require you to open an email and retrieve a temporary code, or require you to have access to the original email account in order to switch to a new one. I don't know what I'd do if I'd lost those.


Sounds like you have a good incentive to spin up a domain and start transitioning away from Google.


I use G-suite for my domain... Just uninstalled NewPipe too, just to be sure for now.


I have a couple of domains, and do have an email for own domain but haven't transitioned my emails to be sent to the new email just yet


This sucks, but... is NewPipe just a proxy to YouTube videos (and other services, it looks like) that excludes the ads?

After a few pages, the linked github issue devolves into discussions around "how Google could detect you're using NewPipe" instead of whether or not you should be allowed to use it. That makes me think it's more in the realm of "we know this is against the rules but you can secretly use it" rather than a grey area of what's allowed or not.

It's more of a controversial take, but I'm honestly surprised people don't get banned for using Adblockers in general. This seems even worse than an adblocker (in that it just flat-out steals videos from YouTube and puts it in its own ad-less interface), so I'm not surprised that 1) it likely violates YouTube's terms and conditions, and 2) that violating YouTube's T&C is grounds for terminating your account.


Yes. This could be against YouTube TOS but losing your Google account which also gives you access to email, phone (if on Android), GSuite + anything that uses your email for authentication, is a horrible measure. I don't understand how this is grounds for terminating your account?

Do you want to block me from using YouTube with this account? Fine. Do it, that's fair. But terminating the account, effectively blocking someone to access anything tied to that account is a "piece of shit" move.


I understand where this mindset comes from, but I think it (unfortunately) stems from YouTube originally being its own service and now being "part of Google" and sharing a single account now. I'm not sure if it's up to Google to remind users this is the case, but it'd certainly be helpful.

If you Do Something Bad in Facebook Marketplace, I'd expect the entire Facebook account to be banned -- not just restricting access to where Bad Thing happened (FB Marketplace). Or, if you broke T&C on Amazon's marketplace, I'd expect your AWS account to be banned also. If you cheat in one game sold through Steam, your entire Steam account gets banned/penalized, not just your access to that one game.

I can kind of understand why people think Google's services are different, but I'm not sure why that continues to be the case over time as we move further and further away from back when YouTube had its own accounts.


> If you cheat in one game sold through Steam, your entire Steam account gets banned/penalized, not just your access to that one game.

Actually it depends on the anticheat system used by the game. Anything from Valve will use VAC, and cheating in a game using it will ban you from all games using it. Other games uses EAC, others BattlEye, etc. You won't get banned from all multiplayer games that you own.


circumventing their revenue model so you can steal their services for free is also a "piece of shit" move.


I use NewPipe because I was tired of YouTube's dark patterns, and addiction-building related videos/autoplay. In NewPipe those things, as well as the YT comments, can be disabled...

But well, maybe it's my way of justification. I already use an ad blocker on desktop and don't even notice that I don't get YT ads. Please don't ban me, Google!


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