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You can set up a video chat lecture with text chat and pretty good video with the free red5 java server and something like Avchat.com . That's 20 year old tech and works today, but will be removed from the net in a year. There is no HTML5 alternative. Why?

I think Tech took a weird turn somewhere around 2010. Things became more homogeneous, designes became bland without rough edges, literally with rounded corners. Options were removed, defaults became simpler and dumber. Dev tools are more about saving programmers from themselves rather than pushing things to the limit. Flash is probably an example of it

> 2010. ... homogeneous ... bland without rough edges, literally with rounded corners. Options were removed, defaults became simpler and dumber.

This is the result of web devs targeting smart phones. They've made the web suck bending over backwards for the limited abilities of phones to act as computers in both the UI and network sense.

Unity WebGL is definitely close to where Flash was. If anything WASM adoption is growing, it’s a respected standard. Once there is multi threading, heap expansion and streaming instanciation in iOS ... I’m going to guess 15, or 4 years from now, it’ll be the true spirit of Flash.

I’m not sure about a “dumber” design discipline though. Really it’s Windows developers being left behind, for a while now.

Sounds about right. Modern technology: working hard to replicate what we had 20+ years ago.

What we had 20 years ago was an insecurable proprietary plugin for web browsers. It wasn't standard, nobody could audit it, it was just a corporate product.

And where we are at now, where Macromedia got bought and Adobe slowly drained its lifeblood and killed its products, is what happens when you try to build systems on top of holistically proprietary foundations. Nobody owes you their enduring survival and you are totally dependent on whoever owns the platform to give you their blessing.

Its a lesson Apple developers often love waxing poetic all over the front page of HN about on the regular.

Totally agreed about the non-open nature of flash. The question is why web technologies are not vastly better than it was. It's been 20 years

Yeah like browsers have had no security issues in the past 20 years...

I'm not familiar with red5 but it seems that webRTC does a decent job on video and text chat with the browser doing the heavy lifting in terms of encryption and permissions. Am I missing something?

You can set up red5 in a few minutes, at most hours. Replicating a similar setup with something like Janus is a lot more complicated, and there is no HTML5 equivalent

Plus webrtc is proving to be a resource hog every time, and a lot more complicated to set up in an app (separate media / data stream etc). flash/red5 works literally out of the package.

I'm not asking what webRTC does worse - obviously it's going to improve over time, I'm asking what it can't do that flash can.

that misses the point. If its slow and laggy, user is not going to use it and laptops are going to become portable heaters. This is exactly what webRTC does

> obviously it's going to improve over time

When? webrtc is like 10 years old. How long we have to wait to go back to 1999?

> When? webrtc is like 10 years old.

Well, 8 from initial release. 18 months from first stable release.

Far as I understand it, lag and overheating are hardware/network problems. Considering the amount of development going into both of them, that situation is only going to improve but of course I don't have a roadmap.

FWIW I haven't noticed problems with either and I don't have a mind blowing setup.

I look at what browsers are doing now compared to 1999, there's no way I'd want to go back

Webrtc is an abomination. The resource usage is plain ridiculous. Compare it to old skype.

WebRTC seems to have less than consistent performance/experience. Red5 shouldn't be able to be on par or out-do it.

Zoom has done some nice stuff in bypassing webrtc and instead using a webassembly connector to move video and audio.

Maybe nice, but their call quality suffers, the web client is a joke and they just started using webRTC datachannels

This was also before browsers natively supported h.264.

I threw up a livestreaming setup + chat with nginx-rtmp-module, Prosody, Converse.JS and a few lines of javascript in a weekend. I'm not really sure what you're talking about tbh.

i tried converse.js but it hard to integrate in existing userbase, and being xmpp it is introducing unnecessary complication (don't need the pesky @ adresses, groups were impossible to integrate). have not used nginx-rmpt so i dont know how it scales with connections. converse seems to be set up for specific use cases and not very flexible.

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