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[flagged] Turkey starts attacking syrian kurds SDF after US forces left (aljazeera.com)
28 points by hutzlibu 5 days ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 19 comments





Its funny how some political non-tech news are getting removed extremely fast without staying flagged and some political non-tech news are staying unflagged for 5 hours (like this one) despite being a clone: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21202946.

>What to Submit

>Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.


So rather screw the kurds and loose them to the russians and Assad, than loosing turkey to the russians?

I bet(and hope), that does not pay off in the longterm.

And turkey btw. will always be on turkeys side first.


[flagged]


>Nasty tribalism in that part of the world is holding everyone there back.

Hasn't that same "tribalism" always existed? Isn't this the same people of the World who both carried and advanced math and engineering while the West fell into the fuedalism?

All these so-called tribes seemed alright under single rule of the Ottoman Empire, and wasn't that broken up by the West who then began carving out new countries often splitting these tribes?


The economy unites everyone that's what the West discovered. So if you focus on the economy and tempt people with their desires you can get them to work long hours, cooperate with each other, and create things that everyone in the world wants. How do you make war in the economic power structure? You make things that other people want that they are willing to pay a lot of money for... So they essentially enslave themselves working maybe a month to pay for your things.

Or you can hate people because they are not your tribe or religion... and then the West moves in an exploits that tribalism... And everyone is miserable and murdering in killing each other. The Ottomans were making wars on everyone around them for the longest time. There was no tolerance for anyone other than Orthodox versions of faiths like Islam.

Point being economic power structure is a lot more productive and stable than one based on tribalism or religion... As long as you play by its rules... Otherwise your own tribalism is exploited and you are soon turned into a fool.


It all sounds the same to me...the economic power structure you reference is just as tribal, made of the haves and have nots, with the have nots further dividing themselves into tribes so they don't unite against the haves. There is no productivity or stability for the have nots in the West

You see anyone killing anyone because they don't like the Apple watch? You seen a person who drives a Chevy Impala being hated on by someone who drives a Toyota? No. You see someone who works at Facebook being subjected to hate because someone else works for Google? Exceptions may be someone rich getting treated better by the law than someone who is poor, but in theory (and in religion you only have theory of the true religion anyway) they are both equal. If a rich person kills a poor person they will have a very difficult time getting away with it regardless of their wealth if there is enough evidence against them to convict... You see most people that work getting enough food to eat and housing. etc. etc. Yeah so not the same at all.

Even though you answer your own questions, those answers are wrong. Yes, you see that type of hate and violence everyday (well maybe you don't), and its not killing because you have an Apple Watch and someone doesn't like Apple (but yes that happens too), more often its killing to take the Apple watch you have that the other guy doesn't.

There are more mass shootings in the US this year than there are days. Last year there were were significantly more workplace murders than days in the year...and the number continue increasing.

>You see most people that work getting enough food to eat and housing. etc. etc.

Thats very nice for those people who "have" work. There are an estimated 5 million men in the US between age 18-35 who aren't even considered part of the work force and never will because the opportunities don't exist (sure you can argue they do, and even point to unemployment rates just like Trump). How do you think this tribe of 5 million men in the prime of their life feel about everyone else?

There are tens of millions who are uninsured and don't have access to health care, how do you think these people feel about the politicians who have the best healthcare in the world for them and their entire family paid by the taxpayes in addition to their $200,000+ salary? There are millions upon million who are indebted and will never find their way out in their entire lifetime. There are a million students defaulting on their student loans every year. Suicide and mass shootings are at all time highs, and personal finances are a significant percentage of both (i.e. haves and have nots)


Okay imagine living with all the above + war + religious leadership that does not agree with your beliefs. That's a religious and tribal governance in our time.

.

So you think turkey bombards areas where they still suspect US troops to be around?

I understood the news so, that the US forces left. And if there are some remaining, than at know headquarters. But before they were patrolling the area together with SDF. They definitely withdraw from that.

CNN source, telling similar, but yes, aparrently also do not say anything about whether all US troops left the area.

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/syria-turkey-mi...


I think that's on the part of the submitter to HN, rather than the publisher.

The article itself carries headline: Turkey-Syria border: All the latest updates

And contains text: The move came after the United States announced it was withdrawing its troops from the region


Is it really related though? It's hard to imagine the US get into a conflict with Turkey, a member of NATO, to protect the Kurds, whose PKK is recognized as a terrorist organization by the US state department.

The whole thing makes no sense anyway. The west really need to leave the region and let them sort it out. The League of Nations has been disbanded for 7 decades now...


Yep, we don't have to worry about our allies, who we have encouraged to be where they are in Syria, who helped us in iraq and syria, are going to be decimated, causing untold amounts of new refugee crises. Nothing for us to be involved with. We have no part in this happening.

But in reality we did. We invaded Iraq. We let chaos reign there, in major part because we disbanded the Iraqi army and did nothing to replace it, remember there were no real plans for the post iraq world. We caused this.

Yes, before us there were endless warms between confusing groups. But we made it worse.


so what? we should "repent" by having to station troops there eternally?

the sunk cost fallacy shows us it's not rational to double down on mistakes. so what is your proposed plan forward?


Perhaps have a plan to deal with the repercussions of our decisions. Plus, it is not uncommon for the US to station military all over the world. Here's a list of them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military...

So the solution is to persist while making a mistake?

  >We invaded Iraq.
  >We let chaos reign there
  >we made it worse
... so "we must stay"? Pardon me but this makes absolutely no sense.

We can't just abandon people that we screwed over. We are better than that.

Listen to about 2 minutes of this podcast, starting about 55 seconds in: U.S. forces have begun withdrawing.

https://overcast.fm/+LHycEbYIU/00:55


If the karma system doesn't punish users that upvote submissions that eventually get flagged, it really should. Stuff like this is making the front page every few minutes. There's no way this belongs here.



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