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How Automattic develops software for over 75M websites (software-engineering-unlocked.com)
165 points by madamdo 6 days ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 111 comments






That was extremely interesting, thanks for the pointers.

There are really so many ways to conduct "hiring", the process of onboarding someone new into a group; and this serves as impeccable illustration that if you are willing to innovate in that regard, we can do so much more and so much better today than just 10-20 years ago (and ever before).

The process of Automattic makes you want to work with them if only because they seem to have a fantastic culture, really play the game at a higher level on the 'human' part.


> If that works out well, then, you are invited to do a trial, where you work alongside an Automatic team for a period of 1-3 months for ~10 hours per week. This trial is paid with 25 Dollars per hour.

$25/hour for a professional software developer is kind of insulting. Particularly so if Automattic is looking the same tier of talent as the top tech companies.


"To that end, as we reviewed our hiring process, we realized that the demographics of people we attract to apply are not inline with the demographics of the people we hope to hire."

If that's there attitude then fuck them. You can guess which demographic they are talking about.

https://cate.blog/2019/05/15/addressing-hiring-gaps-through-...


Having a demographic you “hope to hire” should be flatly illegal.

Last time I posted this I received hate in response. Guess I'm not woke enough,

Am I understanding correctly from the last paragraph that they are looking for women and trans/non-traditional gender or sexual orienting folk?

Keep in mind that Automattic is a remote company.

Maybe $25 per hour won't attract local talent from silicon valley, but there's a huge global market of talented engineers that would happily apply to work remote at a company like Automattic.


I don't know any developer who is excited to work for less than $40k/yr on the absolute lowest, closer to $60k/yr.

Let me do the math..

Oh wow, I didn't realize that $60k/yr is $28/hr. I guess this does make sense after all...


>I don't know any developer who is excited to work for less than $40k/yr on the absolute lowest

In my country, $40k/year is a super high salary, even the average senior developer wouldn't make that much.


This can be a problem with remote working. It's fine if you live where accommodation is cheap but if you're earning the same money living in a metropolis it doesn't add up.

But the companies in the metropolis either have to pay good wages relative to the metropolis or hire remote. This won't really be a problem until/unless we hit a tipping point in the number of companies hiring remote and I predict that will take decades (unless something drastic happens).

At 40 hours per week, 50 weeks per year, hourly times 2 is yearly in kilobucks. Eg: $10/hr is 20k/year.

For anybody else:

$10/hr = $20k/yr

$20/hr = $40k/yr

$30/hr = $60k/yr

$40/hr = $80k/yr

$50/hr = $100k/yr

$60/hr = $120k/yr

$70/hr = $140k/yr

$80/hr = $160k/yr

$90/hr = $180k/yr

$100/hr = $200k/yr

$110/hr = $220k/yr

$120/hr = $240k/yr

$130/hr = $260k/yr

$140/hr = $280k/yr

$150/hr = $300k/yr

$160/hr = $320k/yr

$170/hr = $340k/yr

$180/hr = $360k/yr

$190/hr = $390k/yr

$200/hr = $400k/yr


>I don't know any developer who is excited to work for less than $40k/yr on the absolute lowest,

And let me tell you there are developers barely making one fifth of it.


It really depends which country you're from, it doesn't make much sense to throw around numbers.

Market structure also plays a big part in the final number, e.g. Switzerland or the US have much higher 'net' salaries (after taxes) but conversely must spend ~2x what more socialist markets like France or Germany have already included in taxes for various insurances (health, retirement, savings, etc) and rents (housing, commodities, subs...)

Some examples (loose statistics from memory but the gist is good)

In Zurich, Switzerland you can expect a net salary almost as high as the US or Asia (top 10 cities; I'd say it's 80% to all the way there, just less exponential because top paying jobs are not in Switzerland vs SF or HK).

In France, accross the border, you can expect between 25-60K€ (junior-senior) if not in Paris, bump to 35-80K€ there. It goes higher, but you're much better off starting a small contractor/consulting business (being 'sponsored' by ex-company is a thing in France for top dogs) if you want mid-six figures.


I guess, but then how are developers in first world countries supposed to pay the rent? If a company wants to source all their developers from third world countries maybe they shouldn't be allowed to list their stock in first world exchanges. Seems fair, no?

They can take some other job which will presumably pay more? Nobody's forcing them to work for $25/hour.

Except if we outsource all the jobs...Likewise, no one would be forcing Automattic to list on a first world exchange - there are many other ones where they could be free to float their stock. How come all's fair for labor, but not for capital?

Exactly. In the long game remote = outsourcing = race to the bottom. Marx saw it coming a long time ago.

Not at all - both sides benefit from trade. And also 3rd world investors buy a big part of that stock (including a part of my savings).

AFAIK developers in the first world still get better than the average salaries.


Looking at the current exchange rates, I don't earn a huge amount more than this, and I have a mortgage, support my partner and child financially, and live very comfortably in a city in a first world country. Admittedly one with non-insane healthcare, and not in a capital city/city where house prices are sky high, but still.

In Finland 25$ per hour would be way higher than average wage. Finland is very much a first world country.

IMHO, this is much better than giving an exercise for test. They are talking about 10 hours per week. So $1000 for four weekends (while keeping your existing job) is quite attractive for anyone trying to get entry into tech space.

I would imagine many (not from 'traditional' academic background, or fresh out of some unknown college, etc.) would do this for free for a decent shot at getting hired in a well known tech company.


For entry level (probably for interns, maybe for new grads), it makes some sense. But asking any American developer with >= 1 year of experience to do this would be kind of crazy.

Actually here in Finland that's an ok rate for employeed professional software engineers, if the employer pays the pension fund charges etc mandated stuff.I imagine it's even better offer for lower income countries with top talent (Romania etc).

I think that PHP developers tend to get a lower hourly rate due to the larger supply of PHP developers. I also suspect that PHP development has a reputation for being a lower tier of quality, perhaps unfairly, and that can also push the price down.

Facebook would be the major counterexample for your hypothesis.

To an American sure. I know people in NZ paid less than that.

This podcast is very hard to listen to. The way that both people talk, the naiveness of the host....it sounds like Im listening to an infomercial for tech jobs.

I realize that English isn't the native language of either speaker.


> If that works out well, then, you are invited to do a trial, where you work alongside an Automatic team for a period of 1-3 months for ~10 hours per week. This trial is paid with 25 Dollars per hou

How are you supposed to live/support a family on $1,100 a month for 1-3 months? Would be a hard pass for me if I was looking.


What a joke. Work overtime on top of my job for $25/hr and no benefits?

Fact is the companies that are the most open on HN about compensation pay the least (like Gitlab and Buffer).

My theory is that instead of paying more they simply cast a wide net via hiring. If the net's large enough you'll find enough people willing to be paid low rates.

You know who doesn't talk about salary? Companies that pay well and hire devs who know what they're worth.


I don’t want folks to get too hung up on the 25/hr number, it’s not meant to be a negotiation or imply a salary — in fact it’s identical for every role at the company, whether you’re doing a trial project in support, engineering, or to be our new CFO. At the time when we introduced it other companies were having candidates invest a lot of time to get hired with zero compensation, which didn’t seem fair and we wanted to shift that. You can also compare 10-20 hours of a remote trial to the time spent flying to and from a city, being there for a day, and doing lots of on-site work and interviews.

I like it, especially that you have that as the trial salary for all positions (seems like a good shared experience).

If someone is optimizing to maximize a few weeks of trial pay, probably not the best fit.

Also, keep in mind that $25/hour is almost double the median wage of the USA. The software world is a bubble right now. By all means, I advocate to take advantage of that and save up, but don't get angry when a company's wages aren't 10x that of a non-software role. Sure, you can make a lot more money going to a company that earns a lot of money (generally via exploitation of unfair intellectual monopoly laws) while creating little surplus value for the world, or you can join a company like Wordpress that creates far more value for the world than they capture.


So it's OK to ask developers to sacrifice 1-3 months of their time working without benefits for at least 50% less than what they would normally be getting paid at any other company simply because $25/hr is more than the median wage in the US? I'm simply surprised that anyone worth their salt would submit to such a lopsided transaction! Good on Automattic for taking advantage of the situation, though?

Money is what you capture, value is what you create.

A lot of people are willing to take a pay cut to create more value for the world. It's too bad that things are so out of whack, but in tech right now, those 2 things are very uncorrelated (the prime reason from the data I've seen is unjust intellectual monopoly laws).

If you are a YOUNG developer, I would say go take the money! Good times won't last. If you are instead more concerned about what value you are creating for the world, there are a some well known great places to work (WordPress, Wikipedia, Mozilla come to mind but there are many many more often in research, government, or academia).


He said don't get hung up on it.

I’ve been a software developer since 1999. (before then I was a half developer/half operator for 3 years while going to graduate school). I have never made less than $25 hour.

So if there is a “bubble” it’s been going for two decades for me - and this is in Atlanta.


Thanks for the data point. I also have been a programmer since 2008 or so and don’t think I’ve ever made that either. But I also have done a lot of unpaid programming interviews and/or take home assignments. And also generally have worked at places with strict Intellectual Monopoly assignment agreements. So that’s why I think this particular offer isn’t so bad.

$45K was the average going salary in 1999 for 2-3 years of experience in Atlanta as your bog standard corporate developer. The average salary for a college graduate now is $50K (https://www.thebalance.com/college-graduate-salaries-expecta...)

50k seems really low for new grads today even in Atlanta.

I conflated two numbers. Everyone was mentioning that $25 is twice the average wage in America (which is a little off). If you use what I feel is a more accurate baseline - the average wage of a college grad in any area across the country. $50K is a better number.

> keep in mind that $25/hour is almost double the median wage of the USA. The software world is a bubble right now.

That's not the correct comparison. The median full-time wage in the US is closer to $50,000 (~$47k-$54k depending on what adjustments you're using). The median software developer salary is around $107,000 +/-.

The median wage overall includes part-time labor for example and people working very few hours. That considerably lowers the number versus what developers would expect to see, given the extremely low unemployment rate for tech workers (they overwhelmingly tend to work full-time jobs).


That's quite the screening though, isn't it? "Must be willing and able to take a 2-3 month salary loss"

I suppose it works out well for you, you will get only those that really want to work at Automattic and are willing do sacrifice for a chance, since they risk running a substantial loss if they aren't offered a position after doing a three month try-out. That is, for all areas where $25/hr is hard to impossible to live off of, especially for people with children, you end up either with those that are set up by previous engagements or are true believers.


I haven't met a colleague at Automattic who quit a job for the trial. And, for what it's worth, my (anecdotal) gut feeling tells me that we have quite a few people with dependents -- kids, sick parents -- apply, work, and succeed here.

Work is mostly asynchronous. Not sure if that came through properly. If you have about 90 minutes time every evening you can go through the trial within a month.


Is there pressure to work more than that while clocking 20 or less? I imagine overachievers could distort your expectations of how much gets done in 20 hours.

As far as I know the hours are just a rough guideline, and then also used for billing. When I did my trial it was OK to do more or less, depending on what worked for me.

In the end, the trial’s outcome is more determined by results — what you did and how you did it.


How am I creating “value” for the world by allowing a for profit company to take advantage of me?

I’m creating value for Automattic.


Salary is not the end-all, be-all for everyone. Some people will gladly exchange a significant amount of salary to work somewhere that has a good and healthy culture, whose end-product aligns with their own moral, ethical, or other principles, and/or just provides them some other kind of intangible benefit.

For the record, however, a lot of lousy paying companies also don't share their salaries here, so I don't quite know what actual point you're making because your conclusion does not follow from your assertion, which itself is also false.


That's assuming Automatic really is a great place to work.

Why would anyone believe that Automatic is such a great place to work if they value the time of their candidates so little? If they think it's fine to throw an extra 10 hours/week of work at candidates for little to no pay, how will they treat you once you're salaried?

They may think that this is the one true hiring system, but it's seriously weird.

Other companies have figured out how to hire people without this nonsense. Imagine if this was the standard in the industry. Some company would have the brilliant idea of hiring people without a 2 month trial period and write a breathless blog post about how they're so cool that they hire people based on interviews alone!

HN would go nuts over this forward thinking company that treats its candidates so much better.


I don’t think that companies in general have really figured out hiring. I liked the trial at Automattic much more than whiteboard coding and theoretical architectural discussions.

And it also helped me find out whether I would like to work there — it’s a trial in both directions, really. For the applicant it’s a much better way to figure out whether they like the company and its people than, say, things a recruiter tells you on the phone.

I can’t find the study right now, but there was one that evaluated predictors of job performance and found that only work samples and general cognitive ability were really usable and reliable measures.


Isn't the purpose of the trial so that you can figure that out? It beats on-site full day unpaid demo work, gives you a task and allows you to work remotely with a team around the world for a wage outside of working hours. Seems pretty straightforward to me. It avoids a lot of risk / heartburn on all sides to figure out early if the (relatively novel remote work culture there) is going to work out.

I don’t work there, but have a few friends who do, and they have all said it’s a great company to work for and the compensation is good.

> if they value the time of their candidates so little?

Get out of the bubble anonCow. $25/hour is nearly double the USA median wage, for a trial position.

Here's a dirty little secret for you: the only reason software developers are making unnaturally high amounts relative to everyone else is because of unjust intellectual monopoly laws.


You know who else doesn't talk about salary? Companies that try to get the cheapest of everything (salary usually labelled 'competitive'). I think those are more common that yours.

Let's think about it in terms of expected return on investment.

For full disclosure: I am an Automattic employee and love working remotely on the side so much that I devote my private time to promoting it [ https://www.quora.com/How-is-life-as-a-web-developer-who-wor... ]. Opinions here are my own. The way I see it (and this is my private opinion), Automattic can successfully pull off what it does, because we really filter people who are self-driven and NOT motivated by money.

If you want more $$$, Google or Facebook is definitely your best bet. But in Google or Facebook, your role will be tightly defined. In Automattic you have LOADS of freedom and flexibility to try to have a positive impact. We sometimes succeed, sometimes need to work on something else, but the work tends to be very fulfilling.

Now, back to the money topic. My salary went up about 6x after joining A8C (yes, that is 600%). Part of this is of course due to the fact that I live in Poland.

- I can travel the world without needing more vacation time,

- I have company off-sites in Disneyland, Athens or wherever it may be.

- I can visit my grandpa during the workday because I don't have to sit in an office all day or move to Silicon Valley.

- NOT EVEN ONCE was I pushed to do overtime in Automattic. I did it because I got myself into way to many projects, but I have multiple coworkers that do not go over 40 hr/week

I promised you expected return on investment formula. My calculation went like this:

- My quality of life will go about 80% up for the number of years ( I just clocked in 4 years at Automattic, so lets use that number )

- To achieve that, my quality of life will go down 40% over 2 months, because of the trial

- I have the confidence of about 50% that I can make it.

You do the math.

I learned that to achieve better results that everybody else, you just need to do a little more upront work. People tend to not do that. The funny part is that after you do that upront work you are usually in a place where you have to work less than everybody else.


>> I learned that to achieve better results that everybody else, you just need to do a little more upront work. People tend to not do that. The funny part is that after you do that upront work you are usually in a place where you have to work less than everybody else.

I think what you and Matt are missing here is the case where things don't work out. What if Wordpress decides after the trial that I am not a good fit? What if I decide that I don't like the job? What happens to the 3 months I spent working for less? How many under-payed jobs in your mind should an engineer do before the "math" stops working?


If you don't like the deal, just don't do it. If Automattic ends up being unable to hire the developers they want, they'll change. Seriously, I don't get people complaining about this. There's no way I'd do the Automattic trial myself, but if others do, and the system works for Automattic, why should I care?

>> why should I care?

Because we all have the responsibility to improve the working conditions in the software industry? I love this field too mu ch to leave it up to "markets will figure it out".


Did you see that he included the numbers to answer your questions in his comment? An 80% gain in annual job utility, lasting four years, with a 50% chance to achieve the gain for each two month period during which he experiences a 60% utility lost. Using those numbers, it would be worth doing at least a few of these trials and it would be very unlikely to have to do more than that (especially if his skill is increasing during the trial periods.)

When I applied to work there, I was making $21/hour, Canadian, for similar work. $25USD per hour works out to around $32CAD, so it was well worth it for me.

Exactly, it is really low-balling the candidates. In some countries it is common practice to have something like a 90 day contract period, and after 90 days if all is well and good, roll over to a full-time contract (longer contract periods roll over by law in some countries). We can really take good advantage of this!

I think the industry is pretty sick with all these interviews, tests, "trials" etc. Wasting both company's and candidate's time. Let's do it the old-fashioned way. 1) Likeability of the person 2) seems knowledgeable to do the job 3) start work next week, with full pay (or why not 80%?) and we'll see how it works out.


I did the Automattic trial and have been a very very satisfied employee of the company for 4 years now so I may be a little biased. I understand it is not for everyone.

The trial is very very accommodating to whatever life situation you are in. I was young and obsessed with the startup I was working for so I was working 60-70 hour weeks (I do not do this at Automattic). I also had a pre-planned 3-week long vacation during this time when I couldn't go online or do the trial, so I had to start my trial later. And then I had an unexpected health issue. Automattic accommodated all of this.

I am from one of those countries where they have a 3-month long probation period. It is not something to aspire to. You need to quit your job to start a new job you don't know much about where you can be let go anytime.

For many of us, the fact that you get to see what your day-to-day would look like, what the company culture is really like, and what kind of people you'd be working with - without having to make a huge commitment - is invaluable. I am not sure I would've left my previous job where I was really happy if I wasn't 100% certain that Automattic was a good fit for me. And I wouldn't have been able to gauge that if I had not done a trial.


Howdy, Automattic CEO here. The trial is meant to be mutual, so both sides get a realistic idea of what it’s like to work together.

I would say that how we work now 1 month is on the outside of how long I want the entire process to take, from application to offer letter. So that means the trial project can be a lot shorter.

People come in from all sorts of situations in terms of when and how they can participate, the key there is just communication. The team is very flexible in tailoring the process to be inclusive of different time restrictions people may have.

Finally I’ll just say as someone who used to be deep in the code and systems myself as WordPress and Automattic started and scaled, one of my favorite things today is seeing the impact new engineers joining can have on products and teams that impact large swathes of the web. If you’re curious at all about working with a fully distributed company with open source deep in its ethos, please drop in an application and come meet our folks. I’m always happy as well to exchange DMs or hop on a quick call to talk about our opportunities.


Why do you force applicants applying to Automattic to do something that violates the company's own conflict-of-interest policy?

Automattic's draconian conflict-of-interest policy is well known in and out of the organization: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20831965

We are not allowed to do outside work at any time during our employment without legal approval, including things as basic as part-time DOG WALKING (I won't ever forget that town hall debate). We have to shut down our money-making apps, are not allowed to do any type of consulting or freelance work, and are essentially barred from doing any kind of for-profit behavior without lawyers getting involved.

And yet you require your applicants to do paid work in their off-hours to even be considered for the job? How is that OK?


> Why do you force applicants applying to Automattic to do something that violates the company's own conflict-of-interest policy?

There's no forcing there. Most other companies allow you to work outside of the company, or know that it's unenforcable to tell you not to, so you do the trial. Otherwise, you do the trial at your own peril or quit.


You don't need legal approval to do dog walking. If you got that impression, we obviously need to be better at communication.

I think the idea is that you can squeeze the 10h/week into your existing schedule.

Which is still a huge ask for most developers, especially if those 10 hours need to be within normal business hours. It's hard enough to apply, prep for coding challenges and interview whilst employed full-time. Why go through all of that for an extra $250/wk? That's like 2-3 hours of a senior bay area engineer's time.

I have a hard time believing that they're getting the absolute best engineers using this strategy, but who knows.


The 10 hours are not within "normal" business hours – it's a fully remote company. In fact, it's best if they're not – it's a good test of whether someone can communicate well asynchronously (critical for success working remotely).

Source: I work at Automattic


10 hours a week is very much a second job though. It doesn't really matter when they are, that's a very large commitment over the course of 1-3 months. I'm not sure I know anyone who would be keen to do this.

That's fair – the process has since been revised, and on https://automattic.com/work-with-us/how-we-hire-developers/ we now say "This work is paid, part-time, and designed to last between two and eight weeks, for a total of around 40 hours of work".

It's still a commitment to be sure, but we try really hard to make it as accessible as we can.


FWIW, I'm about as privileged as you get in tech, I have a job that is very flexible, I have few responsibilities outside of work, I don't need the money, and I don't care that much about salary.

I wouldn't work 40 hours spread over 2-8 weeks. It's just too much effort for too little reward. If it were paid at contractor rates then I might – I have done a small amount of contracting in my free time – but we're talking $100+ an hour (and I don't live in the bay area).

I understand the value to the company of a trial, and if I were unemployed I think it would be a great way for me to trial a company, and I'd be totally up for it, but fitting this around an existing job, let alone a family, child, being a carer, or just having an active social life, seems so much more effort than any other tech interview process I've seen.

If Automattic paid 2-3x more than others, then maybe it would be worth it for that chance, but that's not something I see advertised so I assume that's not the case.

Seeing this as part of the process I would be seriously concerned about the sorts of people I would end up working with, as I imagine it selecting for a very non-diverse set of developers who struggle to find jobs elsewhere.

That said, if this is not how things end up, I'd be keen to read a "deep dive" sort of thing on these topics, why the extensive trial works, etc. A full rebuttal to this would be a fascinating read.


Thanks for the link, saving that for later!

One question: is the 40 hours of work something that your company would like to use, that may go into production at Automattic? Or is it just some toy project to work on over that time?


For most engineering roles it's non-production and entirely synthetic, though based on a real app we use internally. It's the same trial project for everyone who applies to the same position.

source: I work on hiring at Automattic.


It's not a one way street, the employee benefits from this as well. You have a 3 month trial to test them out just as much as they're testing you out. You may or may not be happy with this job in terms of cultural or work so it's better than quitting your current job to take another job that you end up not liking.

> Why go through all of that for an extra $250/wk?

You wouldn’t. If you’re interested in the job and Automattic are interested in you, you can do a trial. Because it’s a non-trivial time investment, they offer a small compensation.

If Google flies you in for a full day interview, do they pay you a full day’s salary? Or, any salary at all? They don’t.


My wife works at Automattic and was hired in this way. You can fit the hours around your other job, on weekends, at night. Recall that Automattic has teams around the world so there'll always be someone working on something in a time zone when you're available to work.

This sounds awesome to me actually!

The biggest risk for me is lowering my full time hours, and that can limit my ability to try/find new opportunities.

Being able to work on the weekends would be awesome - it wouldn't interfere with my normal work and if be making some extra money.

For context - I'm a 20 year old programmer without a degree, I'm sure those with families would find it more challenging to fit the 10 hours in.


I think you actually don't do any coding challenges, you get to know your colleagues, find out how they collaborate on a daily basis, and experience the company's development process first-hand. Sounds pretty nice, I would say.

There is a coding challenge at the beginning. You're given a sample problem to solve and then your problem is analyzed.

I know this because I've applied to Automattic before and got that far. :-D


Good to know. Thanks for sharing.

> Why go through all of that for an extra $250/wk?

People don't do these trials for the money. We do it because the payoff is getting a great job, and we want to know what the company is like to gauge if it would be a good fit for us and if it indeed is a great job.

I work at Automattic and the hourly rate was not at all a consideration for me when I did my trial. I understand it may be different for others, though!


It sounds like a great business model. Get developers for $25 per hour to prove themselves sell those services and those who produce at a greater rate keep on and pay them slightly more. Training and selecting is self serve.

You wouldn't get the best or keep the best but the game is getting more people on the training track so you can call them when new work is available.


When I moonlight, I charge what would amount to overtime pay, because to me its overtime.

Any company that asked me to do that would get a hard pass. I’d immediately send the “thank you for the consideration and time blah blah” email. I usually research companies and hiring processes before hand and wouldn’t even apply.

FWIW, we try to be open about those processes just for that reason:

https://automattic.com/work-with-us/how-we-hire-developers/


That's fine, but if you read about the experience which a lot of people share online, it's usually quite positive and not at all what you would expect from other, bigger and more established brick-and-mortar shops. I applied, went through part of the process, but eventually didn't get the job. However, I found every part of the process respectful and they explicitly invited me to apply again in the future, and I have every sense that it was sincere.

That's generous, that sort of offer I must admit I would think about ghosting them and putting that company on my personal never call list.

What would Automattic lose by not hiring you?

Do you already live/support your family by only working ~10 hours per week? If so, please share your line of work and company...

Well, you could be living somewhere outside of US for instance?

I agree the rate is silly, but it's worth noting the "10 hours per week" part.

Met with an Automatic recruiter last month and had the same reaction. I just didn't have the time to dedicate so much of my focus to this opportunity while having a full time job. Perhaps if I take a sabbatical I will consider Automatic but I'd rather spend and hour leetcoding every day for a few weeks than go through their process.

Side point but...

“In this episode, I talk to Leif Singer, an engineer at the fully remote company

Why some of the big tech is still not very remote friendly like FB, Google, Apple etc.


It's php right?

WordPress is written in PHP, but Automattic (the company that develops WordPress) has other products that are written in other languages.

The new editing interface (Gutenberg) has been written in react and there are rumours about more of the backend being rewritten in it too.

edit: I meant more of the admin area, sorry.


The backend being rewritten in React? Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think that's at all correct...

The backend being rewritten in anything but PHP would have implications for hosting, so I highly doubt that given you're talking about a significant fraction of the web. It would also be a backwards incompatible upgrade.

In our data division, we stick to Python and Scala, with a little bit of PHP and Javascript for integrations.

Why do I feel like this is the most extreme form of clickbait? Imagine vi or vim was marketed by how many workstations used it for modifications.

Isn't "clickbait" sensationalistic? In this case, the title and content strike me as boringly factual.

Software that works with 75M users? Oh wow I gotta click on this!

That scale is not even on the extreme end of articles we are privy to these days.

Do you want titles like "How Automattic develops software for websites"? Boring.


How Automattic develops Wordpress would have been ok :-)

Maybe, but not everyone knows that Automattic is the core team behind Wordpress.org and Wordpress.com.

I think to remove clickbaitiness you should add to the title that they develop Wordpress.

Clickbait is often a result of ommiting some information. Then you click, find the missing info within 10 seconds and bounce off. If there's info in the content that may cause many people to do that, then it should be in the title.


How they handle the large number of automated WordPress version updates might have fit the title. But it doesn't appear to be mentioned.

I’m not sure about the source of the number, but I assume that that’s WordPress sites hosted by Automattic itself.

is it beacause of the company name? I thought it said "automatic development" or something of the sort...



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