More to read here if interested - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Silence#In_India
Great Big Story: The Vultureman of Spain (3m14s)
"Manuel Aguilera wants you to know there’s no reason to fear vultures. The ornithological guide has gone as far as climbing into an animal carcass to get closer to the birds of prey. He’s spent 40 years studying the griffon vulture, and has dedicated his career to changing peoples’ perceptions of the birds, hoping to have others realize that they are majestic creatures to revere and protect."
our dsying …
I doubt that animals can tie obesrable phenomna (eg. lunar cycles or solar azimuth) to a human calendar date with day level accuracy, because of how small the differences between each day is and how arbitrary the human calendar can be. It's much more likely it's due to human activity such as increased traffic noises/gun shots on the start of the hunting season.
I mean the title is akin to saying “Starbucks uncannily observes landmasses when putting in new stores —they haven’t been observed to put them in the middle of the ocean (barring cruise ships). Or “Lions avoid the actual Sahara desert”.
It's similar, not exactly the same, and respecting the invisible border is the point.
Still, when hunting season is afoot, they are always somewhere else. I know of one of their hiding places in particular, a small but shielded patch of forest where you can't shoot.
It's not surprising--they are being hunted--but it's not the same behavior as when it's people without guns, outside of hunting season.
People suddenly bantering through areas that normally are left alone?
Seeing rifles? Sounds of shooting?
A good example along those lines is Gunnison's prairie dogs. They have a variety of warning calls for different dangers, and they also have modifiers for some of them to better call out what they are warning about. For the warning call for intruding humans, they have modifiers based on the colors of the human's clothes, and based on whether or not the human has a gun.
I wonder if elk are smart enough to pass along the word that the humans with guns are around.
Here's a few links about these the prairie dogs and their communication:
They somehow know that we humans become murderous but are safe at other times...
Vultures knows what country it should belong to \s
I guess if I was to ask the average Brit about the sovereignty conflict with Spain regarding Gibraltar they would probably be non the wiser...
Maybe Tibetan Buddhists, who feed their dead to vultures as a form of burial, are on to something.
Burying or burning is a good "rite" or meme, that will avoid many deceases. In the way that it favours cultures who dispose of their dead this way, have a benefit over those who leave them "lying around", so to say.
Would a sky-burial work similar? Or does that simply spread the risk of contamination over a large area that it only helps cultures in really sparse areas?
Another example of this is in The Biggest Little Farm. The farmers have a problem with gophers. The "traditional" ways of handling gophers are all very expensive or have bad side effects. They figure out that if they attract owls to their farm by building owl houses, the owls take care of the gophers.
Both of those are good examples of letting nature work for you, rather than you trying to work against nature. For humans to have a sustainable future for tens of thousands of more years, I think we need to figure out how to work side-by-side with nature rather than try to bend nature to our will.
You had brucellosis scares in Portugal with a lot of media coverage, which lead to quite a few human brucellosis cases and several sheep and goats exterminated in containment measures.
I have no evidence that these are related but the corpse collection could be an over the top measure by the regulatory authorities to stop brucellosis disease vectors.
Zebra mussels are an invasive species that were transported to Lake Erie (and the rest of the Great Lakes) via unnatural and unintentional methods. They also make murky water more clear which does not have anything to do with how clean or healthy a body of water is.
They're more like cane toads in Australia than the restoration of the wolf population in Yellowstone.
But apparently they make for bigger salmon in Lake Ontario https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=878434... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's a solution, but it's not a very good one.
Nature's solutions and systems are almost always the most efficient, whether regarding to energy, time, or health.
Sometimes, avoiding a big mistake everywhere is more important than avoiding a big mistake anywhere.
Rather, most of Portugal is included within a larger region where vultures mostly don't go, because they can't find food there.
Maybe there are too many vultures in Spain because of the unnaturally abundance of dead cattle, just a thought.
Also, it's nice to be an arm-chair environmentalist as long as that dead cow isn't rotting next to your house.
Pasture lands decrease habitat that would support the wild animal populations that would normally feed the vultures. Are you aware of any numbers indicating an unnaturally high vulture population?
> Maybe there are too many vultures in Spain because of the unnaturally abundance of dead cattle, just a thought.
Nobody is trying to make the removal of corpses from inappropriate places illegal. They are trying to make it legal to leave some corpses in place.
Because good and hard work
In Spain there is a recent strong culture of protecting this birds, as result of the work for the last decades of several spanish associations like Fapas, Seo Birdlife or Grefa.
And because money
The farmers in this places are supposed to pay for removing dead sheep and cattle corpses by law, but they often pretend that the cattle was lost, look to other point whereas the vultures do the job for free and save the money.
6/ A handful of nesting colonies remain in Portugal, says Joaquim Teodósio, a biologist working for the Portuguese Society for the Study of Birds (@spea_birdlife
), but the vultures that occupy them spend the daylight hours abroad.
The person writing these tweets in English has a Spanish language description in their profile that says in part (when translated):
Science and environment journalist. I studied biology and scientific communication.
(According to Google translate)
2) Vultures DO cross frontiers and the map clearly show this in two points.
This is the expected output because vultures travel far between two points, and in some places the shortest path from points A and B in Spain is through Portugal
3) I would not discard an artifact. I don't know the specifications of the procedures but I wonder if this could be just a technical problem, bad signal in one part of the map, stronger repeaters in the frontier picking or masking signals on the other side, etc...
I've seen them vanish.. Very sad.. Whenever I visit a village, I look for vultures... Nowhere to be seen... I guess they all reborn as govt employees of some divisions and politicians.
The cleanup crews are very necessary in our world
I have seen them being feeded in mountains at the north of Spain called Picos de Europa:
Laws change abruptly across boundaries, so it is not a surprise that vultures know when they are feeded or not.
Birds or animals are not stupid. Animals that are hunted know exactly when the hunting season starts and ends. I have seen deer separate in sexes when the hunting ban expires(because the law forbids females to be hunted down), so you will see females with offspring completely relaxed in front of people.
The short-form summary that provides this requires the same number of clicks to reach from HN as your comment.
I won't enable you with an answer here, but it is a very interesting answer :)
"Why is the comment so long? Why did I have to read to the end to figure out what your complaint was?"
vultures distribution overlap with deer distribution. Here you have the solution to your mystery, Bruno.
> The Portuguese-Spanish border follows river valleys and is not associated with abrupt changes in climate or land-use.
> The reasons for the mismatch are historical. In 2001, Europe’s answer to the mad-cow disease (BSE) crisis was banning the abandonment of dead livestock. [...]
[Conservationists] convinced European Union legislators to delegate the choice to member states. Some countries, like Spain, resumed cattle abandonment under special conditions. Portugal never changed its laws.
All bugs are shallow given enough eyeballs, I suppose.
The other half: people who didn't read the link providing baseless conjecture.
Good stuff. Curiosity bad. 200-comment threads about minor releases of enterprise middleware only.
Believe me I understand the annoyance of bad comments and shallow dismissals, but trying to fight them this way just makes the threads worse.
The one about elk isn't irrelevant: it describes a comparable situation. Better still, it's based in personal experience. Anecdotes are fine—they're the life-blood of good conversation, and HN threads are supposed to be good conversations . We're not doing peer-reviewed replication here.
That's perhaps the real problem with the comments you've been posting in this thread: they're bad for conversation because they're bilious. Bile is a bummer.
Noting disappointment in people being miserable about something interesting, which in itself totally disinvites on-topic conversation, isn't bile. I can't ask people to read the article per the site rules, even though it's painfully apparent that half the problem is lack of nudging to read the article. So of course dissent is going to be colder than it could otherwise be.
That sounds great! That's the way to combat bad comments, by posting better ones. I'm sorry if I put you out of the mood for that. Please reconsider?
But doesn't this comment just do the same? Like, for a top level comment it is even less about the article.
TL;DR (or "A lengthy summary posted using Twitter's clunky 'thread' feature; didn't read"): Portugal has laws that require farmers to dispose off their dead cattle, Spain doesn't.
Only new-form, gotta-read-to-the-end journalism hides the interesting lede at the end.