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> the biggest infringement of fundamental rights in a plain daylight in the free world.

Guantanamo Bay ring a bell?




If you ask me as a European citizen (well until Halloween maybe :/) to suggest areas problematic to human rights with regard to the US then Guantanamo is in my top five. But then I'm 52 and watched on TV Blair and Bush (aided by a compliant press) crowing about the use of "Gitmo" as a place where captured "combatants" were going to unlearn their ways....forever. Some of the captives have been in that shithole getting on for eighteen years now with no hope of a fair trial.

So I think for a lot of folks Guantanamo does ring a fairly loud bell.


It's clearly disgusting, but the total number of Guantanamo inmates seems to be 779[1]. The watch list had 1.2M names on it, so not be too utilitarian, but it seems like a pretty significant difference in terms of the number of people impacted (if not the severity).

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp#...


Putting people on a list vs putting them in perpetual detention without a trial is on an entirely different level of moral failure.


I agree, but they're both important moral failures that should be challenged.

Here's a wee anecdote. When I was in my teens and early twenties (read that as late 80's) I was an active member of CND, the SNP and Scotland Out of NATO. I was active in the NUS (National Union of Students) as well and even organised a protest and student strike at my Scottish shithole of a college in Perth - having managed to drum up around 400 students to march upon the Tory offices in Perth to demonstrate against cuts to student grants and burseries.

During this time I was never arrested or apprehended by the Police. In fact I've never been arrested or apprehended and as far as I know don't have a criminal or civil violation record (except maybe a handful of traffic violations - speeding, and a driving without due care and attention when I was 26 [reading my map]).

After I left college, and despite being qualified for many jobs, the interviews came and went over around 6-7 years and I wondered why? Until it came to light there was an organisation called the Economic League[0] which manually compiled lists of UK activists and fed them to many organisations as a form of blacklisting.

Whilst I was never able to establish that I might have been on their list, I had a fairly strong suspicion, with hindsight, I was listed. There's no way that the sort of jobs I was applying for, where right up until the last minute, the offers were withdrawn with no explanation.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_League_(United_Kingdo...


That sounds actionable to me.


With GDPR, you should have a wonderful tool to go after them.


Some of the Guantanamo trials resulted in acquittals and charges being dropped against the defendant, with these defendants subsequently being released.

Contrast that with the standard European model of criminal jurisprudence, in which the judge deciding the case is frequently also the prosecutor, and there is no panel of jurors, and no threshold of proof.


I have a very hard time reconciling your view of the 'European model of criminal jurisprudence' (which is an interesting word salad by itself) with what I know of how the criminal prosecutions work in the various European countries. Let's just say that your view is incorrect. Judges are not typically prosecutors. And no, we usually do not have panels of jurors but consider that a good thing.


I've just read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz

And what are you even talking about?


I think it will be a close second along with domestic espionage


What fundamental rights did Guantanamo Bay violate?

The prisoners kept there were picked up after attacks on US/Allied forces on battlefields or in areas immediately adjacent. Non-state combatants are not protected by the Geneva Convention, and the treatment of non-state prisoners was historically battlefield execution.

Some of the (innocent) noncombatants were released after investigation. The remaining purported noncombatants chose to boycott their trials.


Some were decided to be innocent, and held up and tortured for years afterwards, because there was "nowhere" to release them.

Of course it would be easy to release them to US if other countries refused. But instead of that US rather kept innocents locked up for years, out of convenience or whatever.

I think continued detention after you're determined to be innocent, is quite bad. Also if I make a mistake and lock you up and torture you for years, just releaseing you is not really justice.

Is it really that hard to read up a wikipedia page on Guantanamo bay for americans, if not a book or two? There's enough info just on wikipedia's main article and some linked articles from there to make your skin crawl.




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