Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Also, it is in Big Tobacco's best interest to make vaping as difficult as possible

Not true. Big Tobacco owns (partially or outright) most of the big players in the vaping industry. Vuse is owned by Reynolds, Vype is owned by BAT, and Altria has a massive stake in Juul.

It's in Big Tobacco's interest to ensure vaping is easy and viewed as an alternative to cigarettes. It's also in their interest to keep the product in snazzy packaging with candy flavors that appeal to younger consumers.




> with candy flavors that appeal to younger consumers.

Because no adults enjoy candy, or flavors? That's exclusive to "younger consumers" only? The vast majority of people who vape are adults. They also enjoy flavored e-juice. Maybe we should put stuff in alcohol that makes it so disgusting no one wants to drink it as well by that logic. Ban flavored alcohol and mixers... too many kids getting drunk off peach schnapps because it tastes good. Ban Coke in bars so people can't add it to their rum. It doesn't matter if the overwhelming number of people consuming it are (legal) adults...because there are some kids abusing it (which is already illegal).


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28318902

From this study:

> Current flavored (including menthol) tobacco product use was highest in youth (80%, aged 12-17 years); and young adult tobacco users (73%, aged 18-24 years); and lowest in older adult tobacco users aged ≥65 years (29%). Flavor was a primary reason for using a given tobacco product, particularly among youth. Eighty-one percent of youth and 86% of young adult ever tobacco users reported that their first product was flavored versus 54% of adults aged ≥25 years. In multivariable models, reporting that one's first tobacco product was flavored was associated with a 13% higher prevalence of current tobacco use among youth ever tobacco users and a 32% higher prevalence of current tobacco use among adult ever users.


How is flavor the #1 reason for use? I don't get how they determined that.


I'm betting the question was something akin to "Why do you prefer vaping over smoking traditional cigarettes?" or "Do you prefer flavored smoking products over unflavored?"

While the argument does have some minor merits, I'm personally against removing flavors from smoking products.


Just because some adults enjoy Sour Gummy Worms doesn't mean that the primary market isn't younger consumers. Don't be dense.


> It's also in their interest to keep the product in snazzy packaging with candy flavors that appeal to younger consumers.

It's also no coincidence that the same industry has been smacked down for the same behavior in the past. Eternal vigilance is required to make these companies behave themselves.


Absolutely. Thus, it's worth reading the restrictions the 1998 accord (the aforementioned "smackdown") that the four biggest tobacco companies entered into for lying to the government, and consumers, about whether cigarettes cause cancer.

https://www.publichealthlawcenter.org/topics/commercial-toba...


Maybe the US market turned out very different, but the UK market has be pushing 90%+ coming from independent vape shops, stalls and some discount chains selling e-liquids from non-tobacco connected vape specialists. It's where just about everyone seems to get their switch to vaping when they decide to give up smoking.

The big tobacco owned products like Vype are almost always seen in petrol stations, off-licences and small shops that sell, or formerly sold tobacco and cigarettes in addition to their main business. Prices for liquids are 3-4x the price of the vape shops. You still sometimes see these places selling the silly, tiny e-cigarettes that look identical to a king size smoke, with LED where the tobacco used to burn. You won't ever see these anywhere else. I've seen exactly one person using one of these compared to hundreds using regular vape pens and box mods.

Juul was late to the UK party, and I've yet to notice anyone using one of those, though I have seen one or two garages with a few packs of cartridge refills, but they don't seem common.


GP isn’t wrong and neither are you. The industry is so fragmented that Big Tobacco owning the 5-10% players means they do own the biggest players.


I've had the same experience here in Southern California.


TL:DR - Flavored Juices make up 80% of the market, ban flavors will leave big players left to own the market.

Opinion: There are many ways we could regulate this better than an outright ban. Banning things will only lead to black market sales. We should go to all brown packaging, ban any outside advertising, actually fine shops who don't comply and by using education and transparency explain to the youth why it is detrimental to their health.

I cannot even remember how many flavored alcohol ads I saw during the NFL games over this past weekend....yet they get a free pass...

I agree we have to do something, but whenever a politician says, "It's for the kids" it tends to be for anything but and they are using that line to pull the heartstrings of parents.

Why isn't Juul being regulated? They are partnered with Altria.

There was recently a merger between Phillip Morris and Altria

https://www.vapor4life.com/blog/altria-pmi-merger/

FTA

>Altria supports a flavor ban, which would benefit a combined Phillip Morris- Altria. The one-note iQOS is a much more appealing option when pitted against tobacco ejuice flavors, which simply are not as popular with adult smokers as the sweeter varieties.

>With no fruit and dessert flavors to compete with, it would boil down to who has the best tobacco flavor. Altria clearly thinks the iQOS would win that contest. The edge is even greater when it comes to novices and smokers who have never tried vaping.

>Where Juul ends up, and if it will be pitted head to head against the iQOS is another market disruption that is nearly impossible to predict.

>We are fast approaching a scenario that resembles regulatory capture. The practiced hands of the tobacco industry are the largest and most influential stakeholders. They are pushing for regulations that destroy the competition and leave their own products untouched.

>How the public would react to this sleight of hand and a restructured vaping industry dominated by Big Tobacco and Juul could end up making this power move a pyrrhic victory.


I find it funny I posted this exact same comment (Minus the TL:DR/opinion on different regulation) earlier which received up-votes on a different thread.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20821248

This time, not so much....

Maybe it is because the other thread didn't get as much traction to allow enough people to vote? shrug


Most people who vape here in southern California don't use Juuls, or Blus or whatever, they use box mods with tank atomizers and juices that come in bottles made by smaller privately owned companies.


I don't think the data supports that statement. People who identify with vaping as a part of their lifestyle, perhaps, but the casual smoker?


Pretty unlikely that most people aren't buying the products of the big producers. Otherwise they wouldn't be the big producers.


(And Reynolds is now wholly owned by BAT.)




Guidelines | FAQ | Support | API | Security | Lists | Bookmarklet | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: