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WhatsApp doesn't make you buy $750 dongles and force itself onto the rest of your life in order to communicate with your friends.

It does sell your data and is not secure.

What $750 dongle? You can get an iPhone for like $300 these days.

Forces itself into your life? How? Apple's data security is better than literally every other smart phone provider and its OS is fundamentally less intrusive than Android.

whatsapp messages are by default encrypted regardless of the used device, whereas imessages to android devices are simply plain text. Also which of my data does whatsapp sell, and in what way is the android operating system intruding on me? If anything ios intrudes on its users by tying key functionality of its messaging service (encryption) to the apple platform.

This post is honestly full of unfounded claims, like the rest of this thread. The HN bias towards apple as a company is straight up strange.

<in what way is the android operating system intruding on me?

Lol, you can't be serious.

I'm entirely serious. I have no idea what it even means for android to intrude on me in this context. I know what an intrusive app is, I don't know what an intrusive operating system is.

Android is one arm of Google's data collection apparatus. Using an Android device allows Google to do this: https://www.google.com/maps/timeline?pb. Is this intrusive?

Given that only I can see that data (which is even stated on that very webpage), no I don't consider it intrusive. If the provision of basic services by Google to me without third parties is intrusive, then ios is intrusive in the very same way because it is 'apple's data collection apparatus'. Apple, like Google collects a vast amount of data on its users.

And in addition i'm sure you're aware that google paid apple 9 billion last year to make it the standard search engine in apple's safari browser. Just a week ago we learned that apple stores significant amounts of its icloud userdata on third party servers despite not disclosing that fact to its users. (related article: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/apple...)

So if shoving vast amounts of data through the Google ecosystem is your definition of intrusion, you can add apple to the list.

I think it's important to also remember that you can use Android without any of the Google services since it's open source. The same can't be said of iOS.

Of course you're welcome to use any meaning of "intrusive" you like. I don't see any problem with having both Apple and Google, and many others, on that list.

Uh, that's a completely optional feature. I've intentionally had it on for over 3 years now, and it's one of the first things I turn on when I get a new phone.

You can also delete your location history data at any time.

You know, that you can turn off location history, right? In fact, it is a checkbox when you set up a new Android device.

And technically, it is not Android the OS that is doing this. It is Google Play framework.

I am super excited for the Librem Phone project but still think it is a way off from being a viable phone for most people.

You are forced to buy apps from Apple if you want to use iMessage. Forced to use Apple's crappy voice software. Forced to use Apple's crappy TV box if you want to mirror your screen.

But the flip side of all those choices are all massive privacy invasions or security risks.

Apple App Store is a walled Garden but the Banking App you get from the Apple Store is guaranteed to be the actual app from the bank it says it is. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/06/24/google-pl...) Plus the apps on the App Store are often of much higher quality than the Google Play store because of how much more revenue app developers can make on the Apple Store and the better demographics there for most company's targeted audiences.

Apple's voice software is worse because it doesn't do as much machine learning off device and it doesn't try to learn as much about you and communicate it home.

I haven't found any "TV box" to work all that well with a phone. AppleTV does seem to be comparable to others.

These are all trade-offs and subject to the individuals preferences. But saying Non-Apple products don't also "force you" or have trade-offs is misleading.

What in the world are you talking about!? WhatsApp doesn't invade your life just to talk to your friends.

You don't buy apps from Apple, you buy them through Apple's app store (an important difference).

You can use other voice assistants, you just can't set them as the default (which is a reasonable complaint)

As an Android guy, I have to say that after trying Rokus, Fire TVs, and chromecasts the Apple TV is far from crappy and is honestly one of the best smart TV boxes. Anyway, you can also buy a lightning to HDMI adapter if you want to mirror your screen.

Of course you buy apps from Apple. That's why Apple, worth gobloads of money, can impose a 30% tax on independent app developers' labor.

You can't even tell users how to subscribe without giving Apple a cut if you're on iOS. To any normal person that's an egregious abuse of power. Somehow people on HN just suck it up.

Does WhatsApp force a particular voice assistant or app store on you? No? Apple's lock in is abusive.

Stop prostrating in front of trillion dollar megacorps for $deity's sake. Apple is probably the biggest blind spot this site has.

Google is also taking 30% when someone purchases an app through Google Play, and they also take a 15% cut of subscriptions as well, so it's not just Apple.

Google forces their App Store and Assistant on you. Your Android phone manufacturer also forces other garbage on top of that as well as locking you into a version of Android with no guaranteed upgrade path. See: Samsung and Bixby.

Get your facts straight, or at least take off the blinders that is your hatred of Apple.

Of course Google is also bad, but it at least allows sideloading and other app stores.

Which also opens up a nice new attack vector.

Talking about what non-google manufacturers do to some phones, and then about attack vectors while accusing someone else of having blinders on? You're firmly in moving-the-goalposts territory now.

You’re going to have trouble convincing people because ultimately Apple and Google are hugely different.

The non-Apple base have decided that Apple is just overhyped over-expensive gear which is only slightly more polished and a lot more locked down than whatever their favourite thing is.

Apple users use Apple products because mostly it’s just honest. You get what you pay for, no hidden agendas, no up-sell.

Every single Apple device has a hidden agenda — to make Apple even more powerful than it is today, even more of a bully.

All concentrations of power are bad. As a society we must always seek to reduce power imbalances, not perpetuate them

All for profit companies have that agenda- it is very much NOT hidden.

Apple pushes it further than anyone else. You can install other app stores like F-Droid on Android.

> Does WhatsApp force a particular voice assistant or app store on you? No?

WhatsApp is not a mobile OS.

Neither is iMessage, but only one of them forces you to use a particular mobile OS, conveniently made by the same trillion dollar megacorp, to use it.

you aren't forced to use their voice software, and the major TV brands all have airplay built in now so you don't even need Apple TV... But yeah iMessage is on iOS though I don't see how you must buy apps to use it??

My biggest issue with Apple is that they force you to use Safari. The total inability to run an alternative browser is a no go for me.

What button do I hold down on an iPhone to activate Google Assistant from the home screen?

The Google Assistant icon, assuming you have it installed.

> Forced to use Apple's crappy TV box if you want to mirror your screen.

Even the most basic of google searches proves that not true. There are literally dozens of ways to use AirPlay without an Apple TV (or even using any Apple products besides the phone), let alone additional ways which don’t involve Airplay.

No, no, and no. You don’t need to do any of those things to use iMessage.

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