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In addition to the 432,000 Macbook Pros sold in the US from mid-2015 to 2017 being outright banned from flying, there will be all the other Mackbook Pros sold from about 2013 to mid-2015 that outwardly look just like the banned ones. I suppose all those lookalikes will be pulled out and have their serial numbers checked, which is in microscopic print on the back, which will definitely slow down Pre-check when you would otherwise leave the Macbook in the bag. That's a lot of hardware that has suddenly become much less valuable to travelers. Seems like Apple needs to do more than just replace batteries.

Edit: Can check serial number.




"suppose all those lookalikes will be pulled out and have their serial numbers checked"

I can almost guarantee the TSA will invest zero dollars or time into deciding which MacBooks are okay. This is Apple's problem to solve. Zero time, money or attention from the TSA or the airlines will be invested. If the FAA bans any Macbooks, all "Apple looking thingies" will be effectively banned.

Source: 3 decades of govt and airline experience.

Advice: Buy a Dell sticker to cover the apple logo on your MacBook. Or some similarly silly thing like an "Apple Store FAA compliant sticker" program. (I'm linking back to this comment later when it happens :)


Might a passenger, properly warned, be liable if he brings a banned laptop on the plane anyway and it catches on fire?


They absolutely should be criminally liable for risking the lives of everyone on board because they won't take a different laptop, or none, with them.

If the search is only 5% effective then the deterrent needs to be something you wouldn't risk a 5% chance of happening, year in prison, or a fine of 2 times your average annual income seems about right?


You mean something like dying a fiery death because your laptop caught fire on a plane?


That's a lot rarer than a 5% chance. If 5% of these laptops exploded every few hours, there wouldn't be many of them left by now.


If the actual negative effects are a lot rarer than 5%, then the expected punishment should probably also be lighter.


I don't think OP was implying that. There are Macbooks that look identical in appearance to the affected devices but are perfectly fine.


> I can almost guarantee the TSA will invest zero dollars or time into deciding which MacBooks are okay. This is Apple's problem to solve. Zero time, money or attention from the TSA or the airlines will be invested.

how is it apple's problem then? by the way you've described things, it doesn't seem like it's anybody's problem. it could be a marketing problem for apple, but it doesn't seem like they care about those anyway.


That's what I mean. It's a public image / marketing problem if the TSA starts blanket banning apple laptops.


[dupe]


It's not that clear. What the FAA bans does influence the TSA list of what they check for. Also, I did specifically mention airlines.

Or do you really think this list (https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/...) wasn't influenced by the FAA? Note quotes like "For more information, see FAA regulation: 49 CFR 175.10(a)(4)."


> In addition to the 432,000 Macbook Pros sold in the US from mid-2015 to 2017 being outright banned from flying, there will be all the other Mackbook Pros sold from about 2013 to mid-2015 that outwardly look just like the banned ones.

Am I missing something? Weren't the 2016 models the ones that changed to USB-C, q flatter keyboard, etc.? Those don't look identical to the 2015 and earlier models


Apple built and sold the 2015 model for another couple years alongside the USB-C ones.


The mid-2015 models are also covered by the ban.


You can open the MBP up and show the agent your About Mac window in the setting menu. It has the serial number, but more importantly, it will tell them the year of the laptop (mine says mid 2014).


Along with the hassle of opening the laptop, powering it on, and clicking About This Mac; you would have the security issue of entering your password while surrounded by other people and cameras. None of the verification options seem very appealing.


I flew Etihad from Sydney to Abu Dhabi last week. They warned transiting customers that phones and laptops must be charged up before passing airport security in the UK or US.

The TSA already requires that laptops and phones must be powered-on on demand to "prove that they're real". That's already a cybersecurity risk.

I'm relieved that the banned laptops doesn't include my 15" mid-2014 MacBook Pro, or my dad's hand-me-down 13" mid-2015 MacBook Pro that he generously gave to me last week after I helped him repair it.


The only place that I've had this issue was connecting through Istanbul. It was weird to wait for them to see it boot. They were fine with seeing a bios screen.


There’s a ban on fake laptop? Why does the TSA care if they are real?


Presumably if there's a working computer inside the case then it can't be packed to the brim with c4?


Yeah, someone would have to leave a Raspberry Pi zero sized chunk of explosive out to put up a boot screen and something close enough to a windows boot logo to pass a cursory visual inspection.

In reality, the X-Ray should already make it pretty clear if there is something weird about the laptop's build. Turning on the machine is entirely unnecessary. Also, I have not been asked to turn on a laptop in many years, so unless this is a new development it is badly out of date.


The metal casing of many laptops reflects the xrays, hence you can't see anything inside them.


At many airports you can see the x-ray images of the bags and devices as they are scanned/checked.

In my experience there is always a detailed image of the inside of laptops. Color-coded according to material type/density and clearly showing the location of batteries, etc.


I'd imagine the batteries being switched for plastic explosive would be a simple way to take explosives onboard for unsophisticated attackers, turning on rules out that possibility. Not everyone who wants to blow stuff up is a hacker.


Wouldn’t plastic explosive have a different density to real batteries, and thus show up very obviously on the scanner?

The machines are tuned to highlight specific risky materials (such as liquids & gels).

At one point it was common to be asked to turn on laptops etc. But I haven’t seen them do that for years - presumably because the scanners have improved.


LiPo laptop battery is apparently around 1.8-2 g/cm3 (sorry can't find good figures), whilst C4 is 1.73 g/cm3. Not sure what the density resolution is like -- I'd guess it's poor because you can't tell what thickness/type of casing you're looking through from the luggage "xray"; I'd imagine it to be primarily good at relative density.


X-Rays can pass through thick chunks of metal several times the thickness of a laptop. You just need a powerful enough source. I doubt however that such a source can be used safely in an enclosure as open as the securiry check machines.


Not even close to true - just look at the scan monitor next time you fly: you can clearly see inside any electronics going through the scanner


I had a slightly damaged laptop with a loose flap on the bottom and I got told off by the agents somewhere... Syracuse I think...

Never had any issues with that laptop anywhere else - but they got pretty grumpy at me, and made me power it up to prove that it was a legit laptop.


Make a separate account on your Mac for just this purpose.


Be aware that any valid normal user account password can decrypt your hard disk—the exception being a guest account which forces the entire computer to restart into a separate, fully neutered system.


But someone at airport security turning the computer on still wouldn't have access to your user's files, presumably (?), because of user permissions - so they'd need to hack it (illegally, I expect) and why would they do that? In the context of this story aren't they just checking the serial number, presumably that's printed on the case?


Assuming you haven't switched partition schemes to something like LUKS with pre-boot authentication.


I'm assuming it's a MacBook that is being operated normally by a normal person.


Touchbar fingerprint reader to the rescue!


These models don’t have those.


Time to get a new macbook! You don't mind replacing a laptop that's less than 2 years old right?


These are Apple users you're talking about. Their loyalty is pretty much unconditional, and they'll view this as an exciting opportunity to upgrade.


When you boot up, you need to enter your password once to enable touch ID.


Fortunately this isnt a big hassle on a mac :)


That's only the release date. My mid-2015 MacBook Pro 15" was manufactured in June 2017. So it's outside the recalled laptop range.


Doesn't this tiptoe the line with a breach of privacy? Once the computer is unlocked, is there anything stopping them from just seizing devices if they want to review data?


From my understanding, TSA security isn't customs, so it isn't a constitution suspended zone.


I would think that you have the right to refuse to show them, and they have the right to refuse to let you through security.

Flying is not a constitutionally protected activity... see, for example, the legality of un-appealable no-fly lists.


The TSA does it as well, not having any valid justification has never stopped security theater before.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/12/tsa-surveillan...


TFA: A TSA spokesman, Matt Leas, declined to comment on the lawsuit but said: “TSA does not search the contents of electronic devices.”

So my guess is that they aren’t supposed to do this, and if a judge ever got the case, the TSA would be in lots of trouble if found doing it.



Informative, though I don't think that relates to the TSA.


true, it was more in reference to constitution-free zones.


And what if you had the battery replaced?


Does the serial number change if the battery has been serviced? Or are these devices banned from flying forever.


Imagine the airlines reading each serial number and phoning Apple to ask if it has already been serviced for the battery-related recall. Ouch.


Apple have the database already, airlines check millions of tuples a day, including updated no-fly lists, updated air-miles lists, updated VIP lists, etc., they might be using the phone but assuming they're technologically deficient seems like "underestimating the enemy".


I will be flying out tomorrow with my 2013 15" MBP, so this was the exact thought that crossed my mind when I saw the article.


Yeah, checking serial numbers of MBP is not practical. So this FAA rule is not really enforceable.


Why do you say it's not practical, Apple stores do it.

Checking a number against an API isn't exactly rocket surgery.




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