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Adult content is not our forte either, and it creates a huge number of potential issues with app stores, payment providers, trust and safety... it's a problem area best suited for companies fully dedicated to creating a great experience there. I personally have very liberal views on these things, but supporting adult content as a business is very different.



> it creates a huge number of potential issues with app stores, payment providers, trust and safety...

I completely understand that “Adult Content” can cause a ton of headaches for a business but Tumblr’s current definition of “Adult Content” is very broad and I hope when the transaction is complete you’ll at least be open to reviewing the scope of the definition. Right now it includes many things that aren’t adult at all, like “female presenting nipples” which could be seen by children on many beaches in Europe and even on the streets of Boston and New York City. It also includes illustrations of genitalia or sex acts which can be found in biology textbooks and many magazines like Cosmo. The instruction leaflet that comes in a box of tampons wouldn’t currently be permitted on Tumblr. That doesn’t seem right to me nor does it seem like that sort of content would pose any risk to Tumblr’s operations.

I understand where you’re coming from with the adult content but I do also hope you’ll consider liberating the definition a bit. I actually think Tumblr is pretty well positioned to be the “next Instagram” for many young women today who would really appreciate a major social media platform recognizing that Kama Sutra illustrations or a photo of a woman’s nipple is no big deal, it’s just natural.


I don't know if you've ever been to Europe, but the number of topless beaches are low and you won't see women walking around without a top on the street. It's not taboo-less, nipples are still sexual.

Nipples seems a pretty silly thing to start focusing on when he clearly said they weren't interested in adult content.


I'm from Europe and I've visited quite a few countries in Europe, and to me it seems like it's pretty normal to be topless on _any_ beach... Spain, Portugal, France, the Netherlands, Greece...


Add Belgium to the list. And East Germany.

EDIT: Generally I'd say in Europe while women's breasts are sexualised, they're not considered sexually explicit. The US is exceptionally prudish in comparison and for well-known historical reasons, too.


UK. Not so much so here, so it certainly isn't universal. Though we don't usually have the weather for it anyway!


UK is not Europe and shares a lot of values with puritanical USA. Culturally you're not really part of the mainland.


Sounds like a classic case of No True Scotsman to me.


You'd have to explain more, given that he listed Spain, Portugal, France, the Netherlands, Greece, and others have listed more below. All of them true Scotsman where topless is totally a fair thing to see on any beach. Hell, I had a French ex who took her top off to tan when visiting the States and had to be told by friends that it wasn't an acceptable thing to do.


Portuguese, and can confirm it's absolutely normal in every single beach.


Italy as well.


I have been to Europe. And I’ve taken my bathing suit top off on several beaches there. In my experience they don’t really have “topless beaches” so much as they just have beaches.

If you re-read my comment you’ll see that my point of starting with nipples is precisely because they aren’t the adult content that Automattic is understandably interested in avoiding. Why are your nipples nbd while mine are adult content? That seems “pretty silly” if you ask me.


There literally are beaches/sections of beaches in Germany where you have to be nude.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freikörperkultur


The man likes a good nipple. What ya gonna do.


>which could be seen by children on many beaches in Europe and even on the streets of Boston and New York City

Also seen by young children when they, ya know, eat.


AFAIK "female presenting nipples" is banned from Apple's App Store in non-17+ apps. A huge company such as Facebook could maybe fight it, Automattic certainly can't.


Wait, are you saying Apple actually does allow any kind of NSFW content in the app store?


I mean… reddit’s app pretty clearly allows NSFW subreddits. You have to check a setting on the web to search for NSFW content, but that’s not actually in-app so it’s a-ok.


Money talks bullshit walks

Rules aren't for moneyed interests, they are to ignore the masses, gatekeep more simply, “read the sign”


I appreciate the perspective, but let's be honest.

What you're essentially saying is 'Adult content is hard because the US government is willing to lean on payment providers to enforce quasi-legal, anti-free speech policies.'

Have you considered adopting a federated corporate structure that would legally firewall off a "tumblr-for-porn"?

Most of the goodwill bonfire seems to have been caused not by Tumblr treating adult content differently, but by not even putting up a fight to provide a space for it.

Having a mirror world Tumblr that adult blogs could be kicked to would earn a lot of that back, while presumably amortizing platform development and ops over a larger userbase.

Surrendering because free speech is hard is never a good look.


> Have you considered adopting a federated corporate structure that would legally firewall off a "tumblr-for-porn"?

That is literally the convoluted situation photomatt was trying to avoid.

I also think that the suggestion is hilariously naive. Presumably the founder/head of the company has considered a variety of incorporation structures.


> Presumably the founder/head of the company has considered a variety of incorporation structures

One would think, but apparently neither Yahoo nor Verizon made any effort in that direction.

To the tune of putting approx $1 billion through the corporate paper shredder.

Given that track record of handling, and an ostensibly similar approach, I thought it was a valid question.


> To the tune of putting approx $1 billion through the corporate paper shredder.

Arguably, that happened June 20th, 2013, the day the Tumblr acquisition was closed.


Arguably, it happened throug gross miss-management. Can you think of one good decision they made?


Who is they in this case? Tumblr leadership, Yahoo! leadership, Oath leadership, or Verizon leadership?


Yes.


I can think of a few good decisions the former half of that list made. Later half, not so much.


If you expect Tumblr to have a lot of autonomy why not let them handle what used to be their core competency?


> best suited for companies fully dedicated to creating a great experience there.

Sorry for being so blunt but I couldn't agree less with. If you leave this to "big porno", you will get the same exploitive, generic bullshit you get anywhere else as well. It's a shame that nobody dares to touch that who isn't in the porn industry already.


be that as it may, the current automated flagging system is abhorrent and pretty much killed all confidence in the platform especially among artists. why would anyone take invest the time and effort to build a gallery & maintain a presence on tumblr when it feels like you're playing russian roulette with every (non-nsfw) image you upload? 4chan recently was split into separate domains for sfw/nsfw boards, maybe tumblr could go in a similar direction?


> it's a problem area best suited for companies fully dedicated to creating a great experience there

That's exactly what Tumblr's ex-users don't want, however.

Those Tumblr users want a place to freely exchange what they like, whether that's cute cats or hardcore porn.

That's what made Tumblr so beautiful. I'm sad to see it (apparently permanently) go.

Then again something nice is coming out of it as well: The main competitor is now the non commercial, federated, ActivityPub based Fediverse, frequently referred to as Mastodon.


err twitter?


Then why was Yahoo able to deal with it?


They arguably weren’t: they no longer have tumblr.


They also neither have Flickr; a similar hotbed of porn. Surprised SmugMug haven't started a purge there, yet.


Was that sarcasm or is there really (public) porn on Flickr?


Why would they?




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