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I can’t think of anything I want less than Huawei smart home devices.

Are you comparing these to what is happening in China? Please.


In which universe did any Chinese company pull a Tiananmen Square massacre?

Are you confusing the Chinese company with the Chinese government?

Are you comfortables with USA government staging illegal Iraqi war (one of many), that resulted in close to a million death (at least)? With direct complicit help from many USA based companies?

What exactly are we comparing here, or are we cherry-picking ignorance?

> Given the public nature of trade unions in China, if the ownership stake of the trade union committee is genuine, and if the trade union and its committee function as trade unions generally function in China, then Huawei may be deemed effectively state-owned.

(Source: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669)

Google smart home devices?

Reminds me of the joke: "My wife asked me why I spoke so softly in the house. I said I was afraid Mark Zuckerberg was listening! She laughed. I laughed. Alexa laughed. Siri laughed. Google Voice Assistant laughed."

Or a Facebook smart home device.

Worse yet that bedroom webcam from Amazon. Idek who approved that.


My,naive, impression as a none US and none Chinese citizen is that Google will abuse all the data they can get their hands on in order to make money. Huawei on the other hand, may use your data in the way that best fits the Chinese goverment. This may of course be terrible if your an Chinese citizen doing things the goverment does not want you to do, but on the other hand as an European citizen I find it much less likely that the Chinese goverment will abuse my personal data than that Google will.

edit:typos and formatting..

While that is a tempting view at first, I can't get behind it, given what we now know about state-sponsored efforts to destabilize western democracies, through targeted misinformation and outright cyber warfare. I think we have every reason to believe such efforts will become more sophisticated, bold and disruptive. Every bit of data that adversarial regimes may have on you, is a potential lever that they can pull.

Yep, yep, private firms in the west are harvesting our data and using it in not-so-great ways. Same with our security agencies. But... imperfect though they may be, we do have many tools with which to hold them accountable and affect change, even if the odds might be stacked against us most of the time.

Not to mention, we've seen how bad western companies tend to be at securing data (e.g. Equifax) - its not going to be any better in China or elsewhere.

Is the Chinese state-sponsored cyber warfare any worse than what the US or Russia are doing? My impression is that cyber warfare is a part of what it to be an superpower, if your not doing it you are losing(__lots of citations needed__), and I have no reason not to belive that the US is not best in class when it comes to cyber warfare.

It doesn’t matter who has the weapon. What matter is whether it is targeting you.

How is Google abusing your data?


- you're not in or near China

- you are not a Chinese national or a relative of one

- you are not operating in international human rights law

Then arguably the Chinese government has less power over you than the US one, or indeed Google.

[citation needed]


It's worth remembering that the world isn't divided into the US and China. There are in fact other countries, and the fact that the US is willing to violate the rights of the people in those countries on a massive scale and subsequently use that against them (which is an even more important factor) means that there is no moral high ground to be found there.

Agreed (my comment is mainly for the US because that's where a lot of HN users are) but the US is still a democracy and might assassinate people but generally doesn't murder you just for protesting.

Not complaining about downmods but -2 for a pretty boring statement like the above is a bit...interesting?

- Do people not think the US is a democracy? Why? Russiagate?

- Do people think the US generally murders you for protesting?

- Do people think that Tiananmen Square didn't happen?

At a glance it might be:

- Implying that being US-centric by default is okay

- Implying that the US (police) does not arbitrarily murder people for doing things they do not like (including protesting)

Those are two things that stood out to me as surprising points of view.

> Google is beholden to the US government, which does terrible things but generally tries to avoid doing them to US citizens en masse.

I'm not one of you.

Glad to know as long as its not one of you its all OK. As if the rest of the world doesn't know it.

I'm the person you're replying to and I'm not a US citizen either. The only person who has discussed this being OK is you.

USA Government doesn't do terrible things to USA citizens, but does terrible things to Non-USA countries and its citizens (most of the rest of the world).

Chinese Government does terrible things to its own people, but doesn't do terrible things to the rest of the world.

Pick your poison.

In the USA (and in liberal democracies) people can learn about these things, speak openly about them, possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable. That's the crucial difference.

I'm pretty sure I can hear people laughing, as they are reading that. However, it really is true.

Why is Guantanamo camp still open?

Can Snowden speak openly about NSA hacking?

In China there are some checks and balances, but they are just ineffective and often ignored too. In the USA there are stronger due processes, but there are also more subtle ways to abuse them.

There is a difference, but it’s not really as material as it sounds.

> possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable

When was the last time it happened, if ever?

Imagine what the US government might be doing abroad today, if there had been no push back from its citizens on the Iraq war? Or Vietnam?

Or take a look at the spotlight in the US being shined on immigration and the treatment of asylum seekers, today. Imagine a version of events where there is no such spotlight. That fight is still ongoing, and the outcome is uncertain... but would their situation be better or worse?

The US is also engaged in many, many humanitarian efforts all around the world - that is in part because these efforts are supported by the people.

You literally did not answer my question. Your government is not now or has ever been accountable to any atrocities it has caused since the beginning of its existence. Regardless of how much angst you have shown and the protests you have done. Nothing cam out of it, ever.

China has never in the history of its existence, bombed the shit out of other countries, killing millions in the guise of freedom. Overthrew legitimately elected government, and supplied weapons to create conflict. Never.

Well China itself does not have a legitimately elected government, so there's that. They're trying to revoke the HK system they promised before the handover in 1997 as we speak.

Personally I have no "smart" devices except mobile phones.

What are the Chinese going to do with my personal conversations? Apart from use it for marketing, for which there are already much easier ways of collecting data.

I'm far more worried about MY government collecting data and being in a position to make real use of it. Western corporations are more likely to play ball with western governments.

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