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Unshaky – Tries to address double key press issue on Apple's butterfly keyboard (github.com)
115 points by tmlee 77 days ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 124 comments



Apple replaced my keyboard for free (two week turnaround)... but the Apple tech also suggested I purchase the $13 Ghostcover keyboard cover [1] for the new one to prevent future problems. I did and... it's actually amazing and doesn't get in the way of typing at all. Seriously can't even notice it's there in terms of touch, and its texture feels the same as the original keys.

Should Apple make a keyboard less prone to problems from debris? Yes, of course. But in the meantime, is a $13 keyboard cover a good idea to fix a $1,300+ machine? Also Yes. A minor inconvenience to have to buy, but at least it fixes it for good... and I've never seen it mentioned on HN before so thought I'd share in case it helps others.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N20RZXB


Sounds like Apple should be providing this $13 magical fix to anyone that brings in a defective product for free.


I doubt it’s company policy to go around recommending a dustcover. Probably just something that the helpful support person tells people.

Can you imagine a process where Apple takes that recommendation and walks it up the chain internally to get it offered alongside the repair for free? Not a good look.


In fact Apples official support documentation tells you to not use keyboard covers https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203671


Leaving any material on the top case (keyboard and palm rest area) could result in damage to the display when you close it.

That is an interesting twist. I hadn't thought of that, and display is surely an expensive repair.. which reminds me, I need to repair the bezel on my macbook pro..


Apple handed out free cases for the iPhone 4 for a while to mitigate issues where the cell signal would drop when you held the phone a certain way. This type of action wouldn’t be unprecedented.


They made and sold the cases though before it became a workaround.


They let you get third party cases valued at up to ~$30 for free. This wasn’t just for Apple branded cases. In fact, I believe this was before Apple sold first party iPhone cases.


Completely agree. MacBooks should just come with one in the first place. What's even crazier is they don't even sell it in their stores... the tech gave me the name of it so I could buy it online.


Doesn't the low clearance between the keyboard and the display cause an issue? I get key rub marks on my display, and I don't even have a cover.

(I do transit with my macbook in my backpack, which is a likely cause of the rub marks)


It doesn't at all with my Late 2016 MBP, zero issue.

(My previous MacBook Air did get the key marks on the display, and that was without any cover. So I'm guessing it depends on the model of MacBook.)


It's not sufficient. I have <1 month old MBP with the latest butterfly design and a cover, and Caps Lock is not firing every ~2-3 strokes.


As some other people mentioned, Caps Lock on Mac keyboards are special, Apple added a delay or something for people hitting it accidentally. If you google around there's some fix for it, I think.

If you're not having trouble with any other key, your keyboard probably works fine. Keep that dust cover on!


Might it be due to the default delay on Caps Lock?


Yeah, another brilliant Apple "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist. WTF?

They did the same thing to the Eject key: They put a hardware DELAY on it, so you couldn't remap it to be a real Delete key.

How can Apple work so hard to screw up a KEYBOARD? Incredible.


I am fairly certain that any software that lets you remap that key should also let you kill the delay.


When I last looked into this, it seemed as if the delay was programmed into the firmware on the keyboard.


I never understood when pc/win users complain about missing keys on the mac keyboards. What's so hard about using modifiers, is it just habit? Pg up/down, delete, home, end. Those are all possible and imho easier, yes cmd+arrow is imho easier than pecking for that home key which way out of reach. I don't see anyone complaining about a missing "copy", "paste" or "undo" key on any keyboard.


Mainly Windows user here, one of those people you mention.

We don't moan about Copy, Paste or Undo because those have not traditionally been on any keyboards, as they are too recent.

The others are Iannoying because we're very used to having dedicated keys for them, and they are very common actions, and it's faster to use a single key. Yes, I can press FN+Backspace to do a Delete... but why when it's such a common operation?!

Home, Page Down etc are the worst though, as I can still never remember the correct key combos, and peck around trying different variations before cursing and using the mouse instead.

What I don't understand is how Mac users put up with this!


> those have not traditionally been on any keyboards

Appeal to tradition, not a real argument.

> it's faster to use a single key.

This isn't self-evident as you make it out to be. Depends on keyboard layout and the typist. For me it's usually faster to press a combo than reach for that far-flung dedicated key.

> Yes, I can press FN+Backspace to do a Delete... but why when it's such a common operation?!

That's arguable, and even so, I don't see why it's worse. It even makes sense that a modifier alters the direction of deletion. Notice that on the mac keyboard the backspace says delete on it, not backspace.

> What I don't understand is how Mac users put up with this!

Maybe Mac users honor their traditions?


> Appeal to tradition, not a real argument

What people are used to seems a valid enough argument to me...

> This isn't self-evident as you make it out to be. Depends on keyboard layout and the typist. For me it's usually faster to press a combo than reach for that far-flung dedicated key.

I don't have references of course, but it really does seem self-evident to me. Take FN-Backspace vs Delete as an example - I need to use keys on opposite sides of the keyboard, vs a single Delete key that's next to the Backspace key, so I don't buy your "far flung" keys argument. Also, I don't know what kind of massive keyboard you're using if keys are "far flung" ;)

> Maybe Mac users honor their traditions?

I was being sarcastic with that final quip, but that seems fair enough to me.


I bought the MBP the day it came out, and had to have the keyboard replaced (pre keyboard-service-program, Apple "generously" comped the repair).

Afterwards I used a Ghostcover and recommend it strongly. It slightly degrades the feel of an already bad-feeling keyboard, but not hard to get used to, and it completely solves the reliability issue. A band-aid for an absurd problem.


I find it highly amusing that Apple puts so much engineering into making their products light and thin and pretty, that people have to cover the products in rubber cases.

Basically the only time you experience the actual design is during unboxing.


One drawback here is, that condensed water could accumulate under the cover, which can lead to even more problems

(source: repair guy from my local apple repair shop)


>But in the meantime, is a $13 keyboard cover a good idea to fix a $1,300+ machine?

No.

That cost, what, $5 to make and ship? Or, at Apple's scale, $.50? I think it's inexcusable.


The cost is all in the distribution/packaging - the covers themselves are surely injection molded, pennies if that per cover, and lots of covers fast. (Injection molding tooling costs like 50k+ to setup, obviously not a concern here).

If the cover costs .05$ (which I bet is 5x it's cost) - the rest is all of the packaging/printing/logistics/shipping/etc.

My question is if a solution so cheap is available, why can't they just fix the root issue of the keyboard?


Yes it's inexcusable. But If you've already dropped $1300+, do yourself a favor and drop $13 to spare yourself a couple of weeks of inevitable downtime.


or buy a competing laptop, which is what i did and i believe to be the sane choice


I have seen many on Reddit and Macrumors recommend a key cover. It doesn't really do anything other than potentially damage your screen.

It ruins the feel of the keyboard. Sure, it blocks crumbs and such from getting in the keys but that's not really the issue with the keyboard.

The mechanism is just crap and fails. This doesn't do anything to prevent that.


Huh? My comment explains it doesn't ruin the feel of the keyboard, which was my pleasant surprise. Typing is basically exactly the same experience. And at least on my Late 2016 MBP there is zero impression on the screen. (I can't speak for other models.)

And the issue is debris with the new keyboards. I haven't heard anyone complaining about a failing mechanism. Everyone's complaining about dust and debris getting into the mechanism which prevents or multiplies keypresses.


I had the same cover, and had to return it. It definitely changes the keyboard feel.


The problem with these is that my machine runs noticeably hotter while the cover is on (I presume part of the cooling happens through the keyboard). It's not a very pleasant typing experience when I have to touch this hot cover.


Considering my MBP already gets quite hot this is a very valid concern.


Try the silicon covers, I find them to be even better than the plastic ones. The plastic tends to move around randomly on me and the silicon feels nicer.

$13 is expensive too, someone is making some cash... I'm in Vietnam, they are about $4-5 here (obviously, proximity to China certainly helps).


$13 is about 1% of the cost of the laptop.

Does the laptop only cost about $400-500 in Vietnam? If so, I know what I'm doing next time I holiday in Vietnam!


Percentage wise, you're totally right, but reality is that once you know the true cost of these sorts of things, you start wondering why you paid so much in the past.

Sadly, laptops are expensive due to the way customs works in Vietnam. =(


I went by today, g, h, spacebar issues and the left command key let loose on the top part. They cleaned my mbp 2016 keyboard and replaced the keys I had issues with. Works perfectly again and in case issues return the keyboard would be replaced under same program.

Fixed while I waited.


Thank you for that recommendation. I had issues with my keyboard this week. It's a travesty that Apple is screwing up something that has been a solved problem for years.


A cover isn't going to fix the inherent shittiness of Apple's keyboard.


I'll just refrain from purchasing Apple hardware with this keyboard design. Hopefully they release the new laptops without it, I'm overdue for an upgrade.


I would refrain from purchasing an apple permanently unless they undo what they are doing with the T2 chip.

They are making them unrepairable by anyone other than Apple. Even if you think you will get it fixed under warranty you may be told there is water damage even if there isn't any [1] and then you're left with a 3k paper weight.

[1] https://youtu.be/gi9en4I-tjA


People don’t care about who repairs what. They care a lot more about their product have a serious design flaw.


Then they probably shouldn't have bought any macbook for the last 10 years.

According to many Louis Rossman video, nearly every design had some serious design flaws.


I’ve been having MBP exclusively for 12 years. It was quite rare for a HW issue before the touchbar generation.

My touchbar 15” MBP has been entirely replaced once. Had everything but the bottom case (which I believe has no components) replaced twice. Screen and logic board replaced twice. Power AC adapter died. Keys stuck frequently.

If you buy an Apple MacBook you should consider twice unless you live near an actual Apple Store. Repairs in Bali (no Apple store in Indonesia) take 6+ weeks. I’ve taken 7 international return flights to have mine repaired because it’s my primary “professional” work device.

Another thing that’s a strange Hw decision. You can no longer remove the SSD and place it in a USB adapter. Apple put some proprietary socket on the MB so they can access the SSD in case of logic board failure. It failed on both occasions they tried to use it for me.


>> I’ve been having MBP exclusively for 12 years. It was quite rare for a W issue before the touchbar generation.

What? Almost each generation of MBP has had serious problems. Both NVIDIA and ATI graphics that would die, bad SSD's, defetive batteries, failing motherboars....


I guess I was lucky up until now. I had a display failure and replacement on a 2011 13" MBP but other than that no problems.


I wonder about the reason to depart from scissor switches (still seen on e.g. current Magic Keyboard and discontinued MacBook Air).

Those are quite more reliable. Mines have only fallen apart after 5 years of daily intense use.

A great thing of these keyboards is that travel is small, but not too small, making latency great compared to regular mechanical keyboards.


If I recall the argument for butterfly switch was to make the laptop even thinner as it uses less space than scissors


E.G., massively favour form over function to the customer's detriment.

There is nothing wrong with the 2015's size and feel. It does not need to be lighter than that. Losing basics like an internal HDMI port and SD card slot are not acceptable for me as a media professional - period - for whatever tradeoff.

I don't want to have to dig some adapter out of my bag because the manufacturer of the laptops I've used for almost two decades has suddenly gone daft, prioritizing thinness over the device actually functioning, even as effectively as the previous units, that I have ardently supported for years (I still use an iMac G4 every day for cartoons and random drawings in Flash.)

Don't even get me started on the SSD/RAM being soldered to the Logic Board, either - I'm not even sure if other manufacturers are doing this, but to a girl who used to build her own towers from scratch, is not particularly wealthy, but also not particularly poor, and has counted on upgrading her devices for years to get value out of them when she can later afford it - this feels like an actual slap in the face.

I would personally never purchase a personal computer that I would e.g. do development on, that I could not remove the hard drive of myself, even if just for data recovery purposes.


This is all highly subjective yet you state it as fact. There’s nothing wrong with prioritizing portability in a laptop. I for one prioritize usability over almost anything else and Apple’s ethos fits pretty squarely with that, between the portability, the OS, and the trackpads. Sometimes form _is_ function.


There is no additional function afforded by making the laptop thinner through the implementation of a defective keyboard and reduced battery volume.

Nice strawman, but portability has long since been achieved.

You say you prioritize usability but then defend an idiotic and regressive design that impedes usability so disgracefully that even Apple has had to admit failure.

The trackpads are another failure, being way too big and thus suffering from spurious contacts from the heels of your hands. Why didn't Apple at least make the giant trackpads useful by having the Pencil work on them?


In what way was that a strawman? Honestly.

I’m not defending the design, I’m defending Apple’s prioritization of portability in their laptop lineup. The fact Apple is retreating on the keyboard design is evidence enough that that particular design choice was a failure. Doesn’t mean their priorities are wrong though even if you _personally_ disagree with it.


Lighter is better for me, as I carry my laptop all the time. The laptop I had before my Mac was really heavy, bulky, caused back pain and limited what else I could carry. Lighter the better please.


In Alaska, I drove everywhere and my computing setup was just right (a 12.9" iPad Pro, smart cover, and Magic keyboard). Here in Europe, I walk a lot more, and my giant iPad is heavy for me. Also, a small, light bag is a blessing: buses in the morning are packed.

I'd bet that things like having or not having a car dictate a lot of our everyday carry choices - it has for me. Now I'm wondering if an iPad Mini is too small...


That’s a good point. I walk all the time, travel by train a lot, don’t own a car, and thus weight (and volume, btw) are really important. Probably if you’re not carrying a lot of stuff in a single bag and walking everywhere with it, you care less.


The issue though is that Apple are prioritising thinness, not lightness.

Of course, one is sometimes a proxy for the other, but it's not a given.

I also travel a lot, and want a thin, lightweight laptop - but it must be functional, reliable and have excellent battery life; I don't care a jot if the next generation is 1mm thinner than the last if it means sacrificing keyboard usability and reliability, battery life and cooling.

We past the point where thinness was an issue a long time ago. Now it's just a pissing contest.


Thinness really matters to me. My last laptop was much thicker than a MacBook and it limited what I could fit in my bag. I’m comparing with a standard dell or whatever, not a MacBook-like Lenovo etc.


There's a big difference between a workstation like an HP zBook and a MacBook Pro, but that's not what I mean. I'm talking about the trend of sacrificing utility to shave practically microns off an already very thin machine. Shaving another 1mm off the thinness of the MacBook Pro isn't going to matter a jot to anyone.


I like how the modern solution for weak back/core musculature is to buy an expensive laptop that excessively sacrifices repairability and upgradability.


Please don’t troll on HN. There are plenty of other places to trash.


I'm not trolling. I just think it's insane he needs a 4 oz lighter laptop because his back hurts which is most likely due to weak core/back muscles. It's such a clear sign of the times that people are more willing to pay 1000+ for a quick fix which numerous other downsides rather than addressing the real issue. Not sure how that's trolling. Are you trolling?


Ok, then you don’t need the new MBPs.

There are people that need them, get the most out of the least weight, frown at the bad stabilities of the 2015 era switches (and yes, I love the butterflies), not using the fn keys, e.g.

I get that, you’re not the target market. That doesn’t justify reverting everything the new MBP has.

I just can’t understand why all HNers get from ‘I hate the MBP’ to ‘Apple is wrong!’.

There is a reason why the MBPs from '16 -'18 is one of the most successful ones; the touchbar, the butterfly keyboards, soldered SSDs are there for a reason.


No one is taking this from you. The point is that these features (thinness/touchbar/whatever) are not an _option_ now. Before you could pick Air if you preferred a thin machine, Pro in case you wanted all the ports. Everyone got their own. Now that's not a thing anymore.


Exactly. In fact, the lineup was so absurd that the for years the 'MacBook' was lighter than the 'MacBook Air' - and more expensive - all of the logic from Jobs' original 'pro desktop/consumer desktop - pro laptop/consumer laptop' ideology has gone far out the window.


> The point is that these features (thinness/touchbar/whatever) are not an _option_ now.

Well, the iMac didn’t provide an option to install floppy disks as well! If you believe they are crucial, then you should just buy another company’s computer. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy the new MBPs.


The problem is people feel trapped into buying Apple only because they got used to MacOS. I'm sure not many would bother to keep using these outdated 2015 MBP if they could simply install MacOS on a Thinkpad X1 like you do Linux, for instance.


It’s funny - there was a time when Apple had petty great hardware and woefully inadequate software (after Steve’s return, before Mac OS X was released). Now it seems they’ve switched to being the other way around.


They still have the only good touchpad on a laptop. I wonder what kind of patent or engineering magic prevents every other vendor from emulating it.


It's 50% magic, and 50% actually caring about the product. PC laptops are a race to the bottom because the only way they can sell laptops are by advertising their specs on Best Buy counters or Amazon pages. Review that average consumers bother to read rarely rate laptops on how enjoyable they are to use. Most customers (in my experience) will have a few key metrics they want (generally battery life, web browsing performance, and storage). Everything else, from quality to screen to input devices, are effectively cost centers to the manufacturer. Dell XPS and Surface are getting there on trackpads, but they still haven't put forward the full effort for it.


That's only true with low-mid tier devices. Try handling a ThinkPad X1 Carbon, it's way better professional hardware than a MacBook Pro imo. Super light, mate screen, great keyboard.

My theory on Apple's design process with the MBP is they put all their efforts on the first 60 seconds with the product. The touchpad is the first thing you touch in a store, the bright colorful screen, and the very cool look the flat keyboard gives to the whole machine contribute a lot to the first impression.

The finger pains, the electric conductivity and heavy weight of the aluminium, the reflective screen, those are things you suffer from only once you've already bought the product.


And the thinkpad's nipple mouse is way better than their touchpad. I feel like a caveman on any touchpad.


> There are people that need them

No.

One can kindof squint and see the touchbar as a situational affordance, maybe even a preference, but a need on a computing form factor that's already had a touch surface + changeable display for the last two decades?

And are you seriously arguing that there was some key threshold of utility that was crossed in losing the ~4 oz between 2015 and 2017 models that was worth sacrificing keyboard function&reliability AND the utility of being able swap out the SSD?


> need on a computing form factor that's already had a touch surface + changeable display for the last two decades?

The fact that it was like that for the last two decades don’t mean that the TB isn’t needed. I use it daily, I cannot imagine myself going back to a MacBook without the touchbar.

> And are you seriously arguing [...] ~4oz between 2015 and 2017 models that was worth

There are lots of people that believe the lighter weight is worth the unswappable SSD/RAM.

> sacrificing keyboard function

No, the butterfly switches boost my productivity; they have numerous advantages. Just because some people like deep keys don’t mean butterflies are terrible.

> reliability

The '16/17 model’s reliability were terrible; the '18 models aren’t. It’s a fixed problem, unless people hate Apple.


> the '18 models aren’t. It’s a fixed problem,

Nope, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20621436

And besides, of course the newer device is going to have a lower failure rate so far (unless they've screwed up even harder than Apple normally does). You have to compare the failure rate at the same point into the product's lifecycle.

> unless people hate Apple.

It's hard not to, when they are so eager to give people more reasons.


> The fact that it was like that for the last two decades don’t mean that the TB isn’t needed.

That's exactly what it means if you start to think about what laptop interfaces really are. On a form factor that already has one touch surface and plenty of display area -- and where the overwhelming form of interaction that isn't through the keyboard is manipulating on-display objects using the traditional touch surface -- the specific value of adding additional touch surface with additional display is necessarily going to be marginal. Occupying the same space is mildly novel, but it's never going to be the same value-add that bringing touch surface to a mobile device was. There's literally nothing that can be done with it that can't be done without it.

Now, maybe there's some specific marginal utility gains, but notably, you didn't even pick one to put up against living w/o the touchbar, so it appears you can't even make your own argument. Whether you use it every day is no more a point in its favor than the fact that people use/used escape, function, and utility keys every day.

> There are lots of people that believe the lighter weight is worth the unswappable SSD/RAM.

There aren't even lots of people that can reliably distinguish the a difference of 4 ounces between two ~4lb objects by feel. I'd bet there aren't even that many people who know what that weight difference is. Which makes idea that the prospective market actually thought through that and concluded "oh, yeah, this is a fair tradeoff" is pretty tenuous.

If you want a semi-plausible argument, go for the idea that expandability/maintenance isn't something the "target market" thinks about. That's still odd for a pro model, but it's plausible for prosumer/luxury consumers.

> the butterfly switches boost my productivity; they have numerous advantages

Again, none of which you listed.

> It’s a fixed problem, unless people hate Apple.

Stats? Because there's enough anecdotal evidence to suggest it's not entirely fixed.

And the idea that people complaining about the recent features is an audience of people who just hate apple is provably false, as evidenced by the fact that many of those complaining loudest prefer earlier Apple models.


I could use the extra processing power and better GPU, and would be willing to pay for said things - I certainly 'need' those things.

But if, as a media professional in both film and audio, and as a professional software developer for iOS - the detriments of their newer hardware unfortunately vastly, vastly outweigh any potential performance gain - what 'Pro' segment is Apple aiming for, exactly? Whose needs are they fulfilling?


They are aiming for the pro wallet users. Apple has dumped the power users that were so loyal in the last 2 decades in favor of making more money. Simply that.


> Ok, then you don’t need the new MBPs.

Please suggest an alternative that runs macOS and has up-to-date internals.

> There is a reason why the MBPs from '16 -'18 is one of the most successful ones

They are? That's news to me. Anecdotally, I almost exclusively see older Macs, but I don't know how much of that is due to dislike of the new models vs upgrades being expensive in general.


News to me too. The '16-'19 MacBook Pros coincide with the end of Mac sales growth and the beginning of declining Mac market share:

https://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2019/07/gartner_2Q19_t...

https://www.macrumors.com/2019/07/11/q2-2019-pc-shipments/


Depends on a definition of "successful". My previous work mbp failed post warranty, but since the board replacement (Apple's idea of "repair") would cost close a new unit, I've been told to just order the new one. And mbp's the least bad choice I had for hardware, so I guess numbers are up due to non-repairability - success?


I’m curious what your metric of success is?


Here’s a tip for avoiding adapters: just buy a cable that has USB-C on one end instead.

Or get a simple-ass dongle that has SD card USB ports on one end and USB-C on the other. These cost like $10, literally, without HDMI of course.

All this said, I miss the keyboard of older MbPs when working on my 2017 MBP. Enough that if I’m docked I use a mechanical keyboard OR lately I’ve been using an Apple wireless keyboard set directly in front of my laptop, ha ha.


I have a box with USB B, miniusb, microusb and usb-c cables. I doubt these can be recycled to any acceptable degree. This "just buy the latest cable" is actively harmful.


> .. and USB-C on the other.

In my Satechi dongle, that other USB-C port is for charging only, not true USB. Sigh.


Rumours are pointing towards September for a 16" MBP with a new design and new keyboard. Hopefully that does happen, my 2013 MBP could use an upgrade also


I'm still on a 2011 17" with 16GB of RAM and two 1TB internal SSD's (one went where the optical drive would have) - until they release a similarly-sized model without the God-awful experience of the Butterly keyboard. I have to use a 2017 15" Touch Bar MacBook Pro at work and I want to hurl it across the wall when I'm not using my external keyboard, and I don't see many people in the office not using external keyboards for them.


I have a 2016 13" MBP with touchbar. No idea what the keyboard mechanism is, but it's absolutely horrible - there is hardly any key travel, it frequently misses key presses, and there is one key in particular that I occasionally have to press 4-5 times before it registers.

It's been like this since I got it. I took it to an Apple Store not long after that, but they said it was OK, and all this was perfectly normal..

The touchbar is also just unbelievably bad - just give me my Escape and function keys back, dammit!

What am absolutely loathsome device!

I'm mainly a Windows user, and this was my first ever Mac. It's also the last, unless I need one for work, in which case I'll still do everything I can on Windows.


Rumours also point towards a new macbook air with scissor keys this fall.


Louis Rossmann - "Apple users have no one to blame but themselves." https://youtu.be/gi9en4I-tjA

^ Actual title of a recently posted video


This is disgusting.

We've been able to successfully make keyboards for... 60 years? Typewriters are 140 years old.

Now we have a $1300 machine where the form dictates that the functionality will be so hampered that we're using what would have been a supercomputer 30 years ago to... debounce keys?

Seriously? And people think this whole charade is acceptable and worth patching around?

Jesus wept.


More like $3000


Macbook Computer Augmentation Software (MCAS)?


Let's just hope this doesn't spurriously cause that same sticky key to all of a sudden fire uncontrollably, hanging your machine.


Amusingly enough, Windows has a similar accessibility-related feature:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FilterKeys


So that's what filter keys is! That I keep accidentally turning out playing games and have to disable whenever I format.


One of my personal favourite upsides of syncing Windows settings with an MS account is that it syncs those accessibility features to be disabled.


Makes me think of having to debounce button input reads on Arduino.

Also, can't you do the same thing in System Preferences->Keyboard->Delay Until Repeat?


The opposite - you can avoid the key repeat delay to type double characters faster by letting go and pressing again, rather than holding it down and waiting.

That's what this is preventing, because the bad keyboards will register multiple key press events for a single press.


Delay until repeat is how long it waits before it starts repeating a key _while the key remains pressed_. Debounce is about turning multiple presses into a single press.


So, you need a piece of third party software to work with the keyboard?




Just did this, space bar was double pressing. It took them two weeks including having to order the parts after they said they would be faster in changing them and would hold parts in stock— at at Apple store in the middle of NYC.

If I knew it would take this long I would probably just go with this if I really needed my laptop.


Do you know what generation of butterfly KB they installed? My 2016 MBP is in repair and I'm curios what would they put in.


My MBP is late 2016, and just a few weeks ago they replaced my butterfly "second-gen v1" keyboard with the "second-gen v2" keyboard.

The tactile touch is noticeably different (more "rubbery") and some of the modifier keys (ctrl/opt) look different. It definitely feels like a welcome upgrade.


AFAIK there are 3 generations [0]. Can you find the new KB part number from the repair quote? Mine is S6800LL/A

[0] https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Ba...


I believe the newest, 'more resilient' one. Don't know how to check for sure though. I have a 2018 model.


My experience was different: had my top case replaced in < 24 hours and zero issues getting them to do it.


It took 2 weeks for me, without a laptop. I had to do it 2 times, 2 weeks both times.

They fought me on the first one saying that I broke the keyboard. I lost 1 more week on the phone with Apple support to force them do the repairs free..

No. Fuck that free replacement program.


Kind of a silly fix.

This only addresses part of the issue. If your keyboard is repeating keys, then it is likely not registering keypresses as well.

There's no software fix for that.


I am really surprised to find that Apple does not include a Bounce Keys implementation (which is what this is) as an accessibility feature in MacOS as Windows has since forever. My guess is that this is due to the fact that many users find the difference between Bounce Keys, Repeat Keys, and Slow Keys confusing.


I have many complaints about the terrible keyboard in the last few revs of the MBP, but Unshaky has allowed me to ignore them until it's more convenient to deal with them (and thus put off having to replace my laptop/be without it/spend a bunch of time and money dealing with that).


Currently is saves my “A” and I get almost no double presses. It says it fixed almost 1500 of them in two months.


Just ran across this article about another computer with the same issue... the TRS-80

https://www.fastcompany.com/90326271/in-macbook-keyboard-woe...


That's exactly what I thought of: an assembly language routine I saw to debounce the TRS-80 keyboard in software.


This is a much more primitive/bare bones one I have used with some success: https://github.com/toothbrush/debounce-mac


I don’t recall having this issue on my butterfly keyboard.

Is it due to a ‘faulty/lemon’ state that these keyboards get into?

I guess it could also be related to typing style? I’m not a home row user and I don’t do any gaming.


I think it’s due to people eating over their keyboards and getting crumbs lodged in the keys.


A high class laptop should not break because people are eating near them.


I like the keyboards with the butterfly switches - I don’t think it’s unreasonable to not eat over expensive electronics, but from the state of computers I’ve seen I think I’m probably in the minority.


I think there is something to this. I also suspect Apple is doing something similar behind the scenes. Since going to the Catalina betas, I've had fewer keystrokes go wonky.


Software to fix hardware issues. Was this also developed by Boeing engineers?


tl;dr a software debouncer for Apple's obviously defective hardware.


To be precise, it's a second layer of debouncing; no doubt the KBC already has its own debouncing, but apparently sometimes not enough.




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