for example, in a traditional vehicle, a dashbeam blowout is performed using a higher speed ram. Without this, you have to make 3-4 more cuts to the vehicle
Tesla model access for the rocker channel is also inconsistent and a little scary. Rocker cuts made to the X for example seem to be permitted, however in the model S they might be lethal. I really wish they had more in the series on this.
disclosure: I was a volunteer firefighter for a few years after highschool.
All of which means nothing if you are a firefighter trying extract someone from a crashed car. Tesla or no Tesla, it is still a car. It will be involved in accidents. It will crash. Someone will be trapped and someone will attempt to extract them.
There are certain scenarios that, although exceedingly rare, must still be contemplated. We cannot have a car from which firefighters cannot safely extract people. Even it only ever happens once in the next century, we aren't going to leave that person inside the car to die.
Well... we already did. https://www.autoblog.com/2019/02/25/fatal-tesla-model-s-cras...
People at the scene tried to break the windows, but the fire got too hot and they were forced to leave the man behind and get smoked inside of the fire.
People are already dead because they were unable to be extracted from a damaged Tesla S. The only question now is how will Firefighters respond to the NEXT crash, and will they be prepared this time?
Also, Tesla probably should change the design of their cars to make for better emergency extractions, to minimize this risk. Obviously, doors and stuff will break and become unable to open during a crash situation. But when you have electronic handles that pop up and very confusing instructions for "emergency door" things in your manual (open the side compartment, look for a particularly colored wire, and pull on it? That's too complex, most people won't be able to do that while suffering from a concussion + fearing for the fire that's engulfing them).
Falcon Wing doors / Fancy handles are all fun and games until you consider the crash + burning situation. It really does make for a difficult extraction.
Sure, Tesla's cars are generally very safe, but there is more than one way to measure safety, and Tesla doesn't always win.
Stop spreading blatant falsehoods.
“A 5-star rating is the highest safety rating a vehicle can achieve,” the agency said in the statement, which did not name Tesla. “NHTSA does not distinguish safety performance beyond that rating, thus there is no ‘safest’ vehicle among those vehicles achieving 5-star ratings.”
Citation please. This directly contradicts the anecdotal experience of literally everyone I know who deals with crashed vehicles (10 < sample size < 20, ~66% tow truck drivers). Compared to other EVs Teslas definitely seem to be the most flammable. Everyone who handles crashed cars seems to regard a mangled Tesla as a hot potato unlike a Prius, Leaf or ICE car.
The NHTSA stuff and crash safety I believe, that's well documented by reputable sources (e.g the NHTSA). Nobody except Tesla and their fan-base seems to be saying EVs are less flammable on a per crash basis though and even then nobody says point blank that crashing a Tesla is less likely to result in fire than crashing something else.
Edit: I am specifically talking about the likelihood of fire per serious crash. Not average number of fires per vehicle or per mile.
Disclaimer: Model S, X Owner
What the engineers and scientists at the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration have to say:
"Regarding the risk of electrochemical failure, [this] report concludes that the propensity and severity of fires and explosions from the accidental ignition of flammable electrolytic solvents used in Li-ion battery systems are anticipated to be somewhat comparable to or perhaps slightly less than those for gasoline or diesel vehicular fuels. The overall consequences for Li-ion batteries are expected to be less because of the much smaller amounts of flammable solvent released and burning in a catastrophic failure situation."
Like anything else, it's a risk discussion, and there is no simple answer. Tesla's are generally safe, as are gasoline vehicles, and there are risks and considerations that first responders need to train for, just like any vehicle chassis.
To control I would want to see what % of Tesla crashes catch fire compared to ICE crashes.
> This is misleading, the average vehicle on the road is much older than a tesla. You should represent the data showing in rate of fires per model year
EVs have no ignitable fluids, nor hot surfaces to ignite those fluids. Ergo, their risk of spontaneous combustion during operating goes down drastically. I concede they may still catch fire after an accident severe enough to breech the battery; this is not preventable due to the energy storage requirements of a light vehicle, combustion-based or otherwise.
No one is parroting Tesla's marketing (I'm unsure where they even market "our cars don't catch fire" explicitly), and the only way to accurately make a determination will be to wait until the average vehicle age of the EV fleet arrives at parity to the existing internal combustion fleet (as you mention in your own comment ).
But saying "the risk is not yet quantifiable" isn't that exciting of a discussion topic.
Edit: Why is this down voted? It it literally the same thing. The firemen may call it a channel (and the sheet-metal is roughly of a shape that people in the metal industry would refer to as a "channel") but the terms are interchangeable, it's the lower outboard edge of the passenger cabin.
The obvious next question is: what’s a rocker panel?
Everyone here has an internet connection. Swapping an obscure term for an industry standard term should be enough to make search engines useful.
If I wanted to spoon feed people I'd go to Reddit.
One of the benefits of describing what a rocker panel is in your own words, or even quoting and providing a reference, is that it encourages discussions here.
From what I've been reading this morning the rocker panel is the structural and component of the vehicle immediately under the side doors, and also includes the visible panel.
Is that a good enough approximation? If you're able to provide more information that'd be great!
Although we haven't seen that yet with hybrids (that also contain potentially hazardous batteries) that have been around longer.
Military jets have a "RESCUE" lever by the canopy to disarm the ejection seats. I wonder why cars don't have something standard and simple like that.
If every car model needs unique training on what secret cuts to make in what order, that's a fail.
Oh and killing the engine would be good too.
Disclaimer: I ride a bike.
I imagine it's useful in situations where the engine has caught fire and you need to stop fuel flow ASAP. I've never heard of people abusing it, probably because everyone on board the bus including the driver could easily ID the wrongdoer. Of course, private personal vehicles are a different story.
Great! Is there a visual indication that has occurred (see for example F1: https://www.racecar-engineering.com/tech-explained/f1-2014-e...). If not,
>You still don't want to cut through parts that can't be de-energized (ie do not push through the floor pan into your energy storage system).
You're right! That's why these things are standardized and labeled (http://www.solotogrouptravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/...)
>There is also a "first responder cut loop" which does the same, similar to the mentioned "RESCUE" lever on an aircraft cockpit.
The point isn't the function it's the labeling. As noted in other discussions (https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-by-engineering-f...) of the model 3...there are no externally visible markers of where to cut until you open or remove panels and the markings themselves are unclear. The front first responder loop requires a 12V battery be connected to the vehicle if the frunk won't open under vehicle power.
None of this is about whether or not such systems exist...all of this is about the design and indication necessary of those systems in emergency situations. All F1 cars have different manufacturers...but they all have the same iconography and processes for disarming potentially energized systems (e.g., put the car in neutral, put out a fire, check if car is electrically safe). That commonality means it is easy to train first responders AND for first responders to know what to/not to do in an emergency.
Your spreaders will open it like a tin can...but did Tesla rev the location in real time during manufacturing?
It's always seemed like a great idea , and I expect that the only reason it isn't done in ordinary street cars is that the companies never liked reminding people of the potential of accidents (with some exception by Volvo & occasional others selling superior safety).
Every call is a special situation where you start with a baseline tactic and evolve the approach as needed. 20 minutes is overkill but the whole time we were watching it here we were discussing extrication in general. "Would you do this or that? What would you look for here? Did you see their step cribbing placement?" The Tesla responder guide is awesome and available online and is all you "need" to know where and what to cut. The video is more a conversation starter.
At least they made good use of a basically dead vehicle assuming that's true.