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Raspberry Pi 4 (raspberrypi.org)
2504 points by MarcScott on June 24, 2019 | hide | past | favorite | 837 comments

Oh my! This is such a crazy upgrade. I've been using the RPI2 as my HTPC/NAS at my folks, and I'm so happy with it. I was itching to get the last one for myself.

USB 3.0! Gigabit Ethernet! WiFi 802.11ac, BT 5.0, 4GB RAM! 4K! $55 at most?!

What the!? How the??! I know I'm not maintaining decorum at Hacker News, but I am SO mighty, MIGHTY excited!

I'm setting up a VPN to hook this (when I get it) to my VPS and then do a LOT of fun stuff back and forth, remotely, and with the other RPI at my folks.

> I've been using the RPI2 as my HTPC/NAS

Using the Pi as a file server can be a bit flaky. The ethernet controller was an USB one, and was neither really stable or took load very well. The new PHY on a dedicated link is probably the single biggest improvement with this new revision.

The HEVC is a bit unexpected considering the high license fees and general uncertainties. Let's hope the documentation can be released as well.

The HEVC codec may well be an additional cost for CODEC license as is the case with VC-1 and MPEG2(though that expired!).


So unsure at this stage, but that may well be the case for any license fees regarding HVEC. Heck, if they have absorbed those costs into the base price - I'd be utterly amazed.

are you speaking about the pi 4 or 2?

I just setup my RockPro64 with 4GB, also PCIex4, have an SSD, going to setup a raid at somepoint when I get it all figured out. The board was a bit more expensive than the pi4, but I am interested in playing around with it.

But it looks like its back ordered for awhile

I did not get that board stable at all I’m afraid. Lots of issues with USB drives.


ahh, I started with a USB 3, removed it though and dropped in the SSD. So far so good, and using Dietpi, it works great (so far)


> The ethernet controller was an USB one, and was neither really stable or took load very well

Hmm... that explains a problem I had with a pi of mine. Every time the 10/100 switch it was connected to rebooted, the pi would lose its ethernet link until rebooted. Never had this with other machines on the same switch.

Hmm, I've been using a Pi 3B as a router for ~6 months with no issues like that. I wonder if these were resolved at some point?

> Gigabit Ethernet!

Does it have PoE? Having to deal with one less cable would be nice.

Especially given that the latest spec, IEEE 802.3bt from September 2018, now allows for up to 100W per port:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet

There is an official PoE board that fits the pi 3+ which uses a 4 pin header by the ethernet jack to grab power. The pi 4 appears to have the same header.


I have one of these but am new to RPi. It covers all of the GPIO pins in addition to the four header pins for power. Is there any way to still use the GPIO pins with the PoE hat?

Yes, though you'll need pass-through header pins:


How is that Hat $20 when the entire board itself is only $35?

I'd guess primarily the lower volume of the PoE HAT would play a role here. But, it's also a fully isolated power supply with a fan. To me, it looks like this couldn't be made on a fully automated line, so there would need to be manual assembly, which is also more expensive.

I also balked at the PoE Hat and ended up going with a $10 PoE splitter (with USB out). Works with any Pi (until this RPi4 with USB-C).

Oooh I need to try this. Thanks for the idea!

Embedded economics. How many million hats are they going to sell?

Seems kludge-y.

IMHO, if one is going to do one of these types of embedded systems, then PoE should really be part of the design process from the beginning.

They're using the Ethernet on the BCM2711, and Broadcom has sadly deemed PoE not needed I guess.

The PoE HAT had a bunch of issues:

* https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/11/raspberry_pi_poe_ha...

> The PoE HAT had a bunch of issues

They released a new version quite a while ago.

I agree that it would be nice if PoE was built in, but there are better ways to say that than what you said.

Also, the HAT has a transformer (and I assume if they included it, they know what they are doing), which seems like it would be too much for every single Pi to include one.

It is a kludge. PoE is 48V DC, so any converter is gonna look bulky and impractical next to the Pi.

did they finally release the 100W spec? IEEE really let that spec languish for too long -- vendors got impatient and implemented their own. i had to write 60W PoE code supporting three different specs around 2015. bosch's design was the worst.

803.bt has been finalized AFAICT, but I'm not sure about product availability. Do a search on the spec # and you'll find results.

> now allows for up to 100W per port:

It doesn't draw anywhere near that. 15W max (for accessories), and 7W in heavy use (without anything other than the board itself).

My point was that PoE, especially with the recent revision, allows for very useful levels of power to be drawn, so if you're going to have an 'embedded' system with an Ethernet port, I would think it'd be useful to use it.

Why plug in two cables (USB-C (power) and Ethernet (comms)) when you can just plug in one?

I like the usb-c input.

The big shortcoming of the other Raspberry Pis I have is power. Plug anything into it and you risk undervoltage problems (even with the official supply)

  [   49.910905] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050000)
  [   76.949928] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
  [  436.806032] rpi_firmware_get_throttled: 1 callbacks suppressed
  [  436.806038] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
  [  438.886093] rpi_firmware_get_throttled: 2 callbacks suppressed
  [  438.886100] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050000)
  [  445.126338] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
I hope the new power input will stablize things.

I'm wondering if you could power two USB 3.0 2.5" HDD through the Raspberry Pi 4 without requiring external power supplies for them now.

Would be nice to build a NAS with as few cables as possible.

An alternative would have been a powered USB hub.

I have one system where I relented and did that, but really, for many generations of pi... why is this even a thing?

For example, recently I plugged in a USB stick and a webcam and couldn't boot. So I would boot, then then plug in the webcam ... carefully. And there were still 2 usb ports free.

I agree with your excitement! I've been waiting for this upgrade forever. I keep looking at the other options out there, but while their hardware is great, their software is terrible.

Excited too, but $55 + $13.95 shipping = $68.95 is inching closer to the $99 (free shipping) territory of the Jetson Nano.

IMO, at this point you're not paying so much for the pi, but rather for the community and accessories. It's the entire environment that makes the pi useful; not just the hardware.

(I speak as someone who sucks at programming and doesn't spend a 1/100th of the time learning the latest as I used too as a teen. So having the community around to help with my latest project that I need something more than a microcontroller for, is immensely worthwhile. Obviously those who don't need these types of spillovers would probably be better served with other hardware.)

Absolutely this.

I mentioned it above, but just to reiterate- there are lots of great hardware boards out there and many beat the Pi (though the 4 makes up the different finally). However, they ALL have terrible software support: old OS's, bad drivers, out of date or incomplete documentation.

The Pi community makes it worth it to stay there.

To add to this, the bad software support had very real performance implications as well. I was surprised to see benchmarks where the Pi 3 dominated boards that very clearly beat it on paper

That said, does the pi have accelerated graphics yet? I was playing with pygame (based on SDL) and I think all the blits and other operations were in software.

When you add up adapters and cables the rpi is closing in on a chromebook on sale. So not that cheap any more.

Comparing one item at list with another on sale is a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Not really, what matters to me is the price I can get them at, including shipping, including taxes, including shenanigan fees, including sales, including discount codes, including 5% cashback on Amazon, including 1% cashback on other sites.

RPis pretty much never go on sale.

If you have a Microcenter near you, they often have 'in store only' sales. Right now a Zero W (limit 1) is $5 and a 3B+ is $25. Right now they list the 4GB 4B due in on the 28th for $55. (All $ in US.)

Sure, wasn't meant to be. Just saying that if you want to use the new capabilities, don't already have the accessories and buy the official ones it adds up. The older ones were cheaper, had less requirements and more common accessories.

It is in that the rasp pi's price doesn't have much slack. So it will never really go on sale whereas most other hardware with a few exceptions has a lot of slack. So it seems fair to compare the projected prices of things.

So, one party by default overcharging for their product and the other supplying it at cost makes you feel that when the one party puts their product on sale, a temporary condition at best the product suddenly become equivalent?

Then you should also compare the Chrombooks with second hand large format laptops, old servers on sale with new ones and so on.

Chromebooks 'on sale' are an entirely different class of product than raspberry pi's, they are larger, need wall power, have built in batteries and screens, are in general still more expensive and do not have GPIO.

I'm not singling out chromebooks. I'm just saying at $100 price point is crowded with a lot of old and new hardware. So a raspi may not be the best thing for you at that price point.

Does it really compete with the Jetson Nano? I thought it was designed for AI stuff

Sure, if you're doing CPU-only tasks, Jetson Nano is A57 and Pi4 is A72 which is maybe twice as fast, but if you can offload anything to the GPU at all (media encoding, neural networks, matrix operations) you'll probably get some enormous gains in efficiency with the Nano.

OTOH, your going to be pretty much stuck with whatever handouts nvidia gives you unless your willing to hack the firmware/etc and reverse engineer stuff.

Pretty much everything works on the existing rpi. Heck you can run Windows IoT on it. It has a UEFI firmware (edk2) port which mostly complete, and pretty much every distro and 3rd party OS supports it. And the hardware itself is mostly open at this point.

This. Jetson is part of NVIDIA's pipeline to drive customers to their chips. Raspberry Pi is vaguely that for Broadcom but is much more an end in and of itself. RPi is massively supported on the web.

If you're doing stuff that needs the Jetson, it's great, but the Pi is definitely better supported.

> Jetson Nano is A57 and Pi4 is A72 which is maybe twice as fast

A57 and A72 are very close in performance, as the A72 is an evolution of the A57. ARM's numbers have the A72 around 20-30% faster than the A57. The main advantage of the A72 was it fixed the horrific power problems the A57 had so in a phone usage you could actually use the CPU for longer than 10 seconds. But in raw performance it wasn't that much of a jump. A53 to A72 is around 2-3x as fast, though. A53 was the power efficient one. A57 was the performance one.

Both the Jetson Nano & Pi4 are clocked at around 1.5ghz, so the Pi4 should still eek out a bit of a CPU performance gap over the Nano. But if you're purely comparing factory vs. factory then the Nano would probably win over longer stretches as the Pi4's lack of heatsink results in it throttling down to around 1ghz after a few minutes. The Nano looks like it has a beefy enough heatsink to keep the A57's churning for a lot longer at their 1.43ghz spec.

How does the Jetson Nano GPU compare to the RPi 4's VideoCore VI?

The Nano's GPU is half of what is available in the Nintendo Switch. Based on some benchmarks I've seen, the one in the Pi 4 should be between 2 and 3 times slower.

Where do you get a jetson nano with free shipping?


Also Arrow, NewEgg

I have a 10tb external hooked to my routers usb 2 port and have always been looking for something better. This looks like it.

TLDR; of cons from various sources:

- New SoC puts out more heat. Active cooling more important now.

- Video playback at 4K requires H.265

- Micro-HDMI cables now needed.

- Draws more power.

Other than that, looks like a major performance boost.

>Video playback at 4K requires H.265

Not really a con IMO, I haven't seen anything on a 4k bluray encoded in h.264, everything seems to be 265. The microHDMI is kind of a bummer though.

I actually wonder if the A72 CPUs onboard are fast enough to do software h.264 4k decode. They might be.

Do you have a blog or something for us, mortals, to learn

> I've been using the RPI2 as my HTPC/NAS at my folks

Could you provide some details? The USB-adapted ethernet & lack of wifi sounds limiting for a NAS.

Not OP but... If I would guess hes using OpenMediaVault? It works rather well on even gen 1 pi's.

It might work "well" as long as you don't need a lot of capacity, nor do you care about the fact that everything is running at < 30MB/sec.

The existing rpi lines are seriously IO bandwidth constrained in every manner. The USB3 on the 4 hopefully fixes some of this. Bottom line, unless you don't mind your photo's taking minutes to copy, your going to be much better off with pretty much anything else besides a rpi3 as a file server.

Feels like an exponential upgrade.

Do you have a good guide to setup a nice VPN server?

This script is really nice: https://github.com/Nyr/openvpn-install

It sets up systemd and iptables and generates all certs and keys and wraps them up into tidy, per-client .ovpn files

Another to check out is http://www.pivpn.io. Very easy to setup and use.

Even so, A72 is a highly-inefficient chip (which is probably why they set such a low clock speed for it). Cortex-A73 would've been much better. But I guess there always has to be at least one obvious lacking in Raspberry Pi generations.

I'm intrigued as to why they didn't use a big.LITTLE design (or whatever they're calling it these days). Perhaps mainstream-linux still isn't so great at handling it.

Really the only benefit of that is energy efficiency if it is used correctly, in exchange for additional cost or lower max performance. Makes sense for a smartphone, less so for a mains powered device (and the Raspberry Pi SoCs originally were designed for set-top boxes, although I don't know if that's still true for the new ones or if they're custom)

energy efficiency also leads to higher sustained clock speeds if your not using a fan to move air over a heatsink

The addition of gigabit ethernet and USB 3.0 means that a Pi no longer feels like a bottleneck in one’s home network. I know that the Pi was invented as an educational product, but thanks to the Linux distribution OSMC it is commonly used as a media center for playing films, music, TV, etc.

I have had gigabit internet for a few years now, and every day on average, I torrent a Blu-Ray image onto my main computer. However, subsequently moving the Blu-Ray to my Raspberry Pi 3 media center is always slow on two counts: 1) ethernet from the router to the Pi was limited to 10/100 speeds, and 2) the Pi could push large files to an attached hard drive only over a USB 2.0 port. Consequently, on a Raspberry Pi 1–3 it takes an hour just to move a high-definition file around one’s home network! On a Pi 4, it looks like one can just put the torrent client directly on the media center.

I just put together a Plex server with the RockPro64 4gb ram, PCI3x4 with 2 sata ports. I booted it up with Dietpi and things are running smooth!

The board is a bit more expensive, but you can probably get it faster than the pi4 at the moment.

The Dietpi community seems to be pretty great, any issues I ran into were answered pretty quickly

As to properly balance out this review, what exactly were the issues you had that needed to be answered by a community for the RockPro64? The RPi seems to have a slew of things that just work on it out of the box, and if there are issues, 99.9% of the time you can find the solution with a quick Google. Very curious to understand what type of issues something like the RockPro64 (which has appeared numerously in this thread as a 'great alternative') faces for anyone interested in the alternatives.

I'm looking at buying the raspberry pi 4 right now, as I've been thinking of getting something to replace my odroid-c1 for a while now.

My understanding is that the RockPro64 has pcie slots on it, which allows Sata boards so you can connect drives directly without usb. Personally, I'm more interested in the odroid-h2, with the native Sata. Unfortunately, it costs far more ($111 without ram) and has no wireless connectivity built in.

Are you running it as both NAS storage and a Plex server? How's transcode performance?

I put together a NAS/Plex box with a Kaby Lake Celeron and some hard drives, but I was thinking of splitting it out into separate NFS and Plex servers.

> I have had gigabit internet for a few years now

Keep in mind that you are in a very small world there... most people alive today will never have internet that fast, personally i've never had a connection above 6 Mbits in the middle of a city, and I know that's likely above the median globally (keep in mind average is a poor metric due to connections like yours, SDL is still the primary type of endpoint for homes)

My point being, the previous generations USB based ethernet still has massive headroom for the vast majority of peoples internet.

> The addition of gigabit ethernet and USB 3.0 means that a Pi no longer feels like a bottleneck

The model 3B+ already had this though.

The ethernet port on the 3B+ is still attached to the USB hub on the board. In my tests it never gets more than 300 Mbps. The Pi 4 should have true GigE support because it doesn't have that limitation.

How fast does the attached drive write though? Assuming an external spindle drive for storage.

at 2-4 Gbps maximum because of shared bandwidth, slower than a single USB 3.0

> Raspberry Pi 3 media center

Just read theverge review on how the Pi struggles to play a video full screen, even if resolution is 480p. How are then people using it as a media center?

What review did you read? Playing video is likely the only thing the PI 3 does really well; even most H265 FHD do play without stuttering on the 3+ although we're close to the board limits.

Are you sure the writer didn't use the board the wrong way? Some people still believe that videos should be streamed after being transcoded because that is the only way to watch them on their ridiculously limited smart TV which lacks the necessary codecs to watch them the right way. Of course doing this over WiFi would make the problem even worse. To optimize network usage, videos should be kept encoded until they reach the player so that the network won't be clogged. If you use the PI to read the movie as a file over a shared SMB or NFS directory, the network usage is so low that you could watch like 20 different movies on 20 different players on the same home network at the same time. Probably even more.

The PI 3 (and to some extent probably the PI4 too) is still behind many other boards in other contexts (openness, performance, price) but playing video is surely not one of them.

Apparently Verge said it "reportedly" struggles with 480p "Youtube videos". Which is doubly wrong, as who knows whether whatever mechanism was being used to play Youtube even supports the hardware decoding capabilities of the Pi.

I'm not sure that transcoding has anything to do with it, unless the transcoding was happening on the Pi itself (which would indeed be dumb). Most of the time people are transcoding things it's x264 -> x264 with Plex, just with a much lower bitrate (and probably 720p) because (as you say) their player's platform can't handle it and no one cares about video quality these days.

It wasn't The Verge that originally said the Pi4 struggled to play YouTube videos [1], it was Tom's Hardware [2].

Tom’s Hardware’s review notes that the hardware is able to handle many everyday tasks such as web browsing with up to 15 Chromium tabs, light image editing using GIMP, and document and spreadsheet work using LibreOffice. Unsurprisingly, the sub-$100 miniature PC has its limits. It reportedly struggles with full screen video playback from YouTube for example, even if you turn down the resolution to 480p.

Tom's Hardware were using a pre-release OS so it's possible the issues with video playback were caused by this?

It’s important to note that, at launch time, some important Raspberry Pi software doesn’t yet work on the Pi 4. To run Pi 4, you’ll need to download a brand new build of the Raspbian OS, Raspbian Buster. And not everything runs in Buster yet. During testing, we found numerous Python libraries or other required packages that weren’t compatible with the new OS.

My biggest problems involved video playback. If I wanted to watch a YouTube video, I had to keep it in a window, because even in 480p resolution, it was jerky at full screen. The other task I’d like to perform is playing retro games, but as of this writing, the Retropie package of emulators doesn’t work with Pi 4.

During extensive hands-on testing, I found that, while the 4K at 30 Hz is tolerable, little things like the movement of the mouse pointer are a bit sluggish. If you have a 4K screen, you’re definitely better off going for the 60 Hz mode, but note that the added voltage may also cause your CPU to get hot and throttle more easily.

While surfing the web, looking at still images and just enjoying all the extra screen real estate of 4K is great, video playback is the Raspberry Pi 4’s Achille’s heel, at least as of this writing. Whether we were attempting to stream a 4K video or use a downloaded file, we never got a smooth, workable 4K experience, either in Raspbian Buster or LibreElec, an OS that runs the Kodi media player. Several H.264 encoded videos, including Tears of Steel, did not play at all or showed as a jumble of colours. Even the sample jelly fish videos that the folks at Kodi recommended for my testing appeared as still pictures with no movement. Clearly, there’s a lot of optimization that still needs to be done both on the OS and software side to make the Raspberry Pi 4 capable of playing 4K video.

Unfortunately, even streaming 1080p YouTube videos is a challenge at this point. Running at 1080p resolution, full screen video trailer for Stranger Things showed obvious jerkiness. However, the playback was smooth when I watched the same clip in a smaller window. The same problem occurred, even when I dropped the stream’s resolution down to 480p.

Playing offline 1080p videos works well, provided your screen is at 1920 x 1080 or lower resolution. A downloaded trailer of Avenger’s Endgame was perfectly smooth when I watched it using the VLC player.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/6/24/18715211/r...

[2] https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/raspberry-pi-4-b,6193.h...

My slightly older Intel NUC struggled hard with YouTube too, until I installed the extension that forces YouTube to serve me h264 content rather than vp9. After that it has been butter smooth.


tl;dr they "built a gaming pc" with a "wireless anti static bracelet", RAM installed in single channel, backwards PSU, terrible parts choices... don't trust the verge.

I've never had these problems with the various media center apps. My Pi 3B+ has been running Kodi for a few months now, and it happily plays 1080p videos at what appears to be smooth 60 FPS.

Mind, this is specifically running under Kodi, which is optimized as a media center, and is NOT running also a full desktop environment. Attmepting to do the same in, say, the stripped down Chromium browser was an exercise in frustration. That's always been a major limitation of the 3D acceleration in the Pi, as the libraries took a long while to mature and were always a bit hacky.

The announcement for proper OpenGL support and compositing in the desktop environment is huge for me. It seems like it'll finally push the Pi up into "workshop computer" territory that, while underpowered, should be just capable enough to run some of my always on operations and act as a lightweight CAD station for small parts. I ordered one as soon as I woke up and saw the announcement, and we'll see how well that works in practice.

Likewise. While a lightweight desktop on even the 3B+ can be excruciatingly slow, I ws using the 2 as streaming media center for 1080p video without issues. The main thing to look out for is compatible codecs.

Can you link it? Was the video streaming or playing from disk? Perhaps it was an unsupported video codec? There are certain circumstances where the pi may struggle to play video, but I think for common formats they graphics driver has hardware level support for decoding. If the video format was weird and it had to decode with the CPU it could see problems. Another issue is the power supply. If you do not use a quality 2A power supply, a little red light by the power jack will indicate reduced power and it will throttle the CPU. This applies to the older PIs, but I've not seen the Pi4 yet.


they write "It reportedly struggles with full screen video playback from YouTube for example, even if you turn down the resolution to 480p."

I was surprised by this review too. Not sure where they get that from



I had no issues using an RPi 3 for my media center, playing 1080p video from an external hd, but my TV is pretty cheap and barebones.

I imagine the wait must be agonizing! Why not just have a NFS server on your more powerful computer for the Pi to stream the file from? 100 Mbps is easily enough to stream any Bluray.

> Why not just have a NFS server on your more powerful computer for the Pi to stream the file from?

The “more powerful computer” is a laptop, and it is only being used for torrenting the films because it has gigabit ethernet. I don’t want to have to leave it on all the time, and sometimes it is still packed in its case when I want to sit down and watch a film. Storing the films on a hard drive attached to the Pi is a lot more convenient.

Can't speak for OP but I don't want my main PC on all the time if I'm streaming away from home.

Also can't speak for OP:

I can't trust my main computer to be stable for that long, and certainly wouldn't want to rely on it for long-range contact.

Not at all. The reason I upgraded my home LAN many years ago was exactly because 100Mbps is not enough to stream 1080p videos.

It does suffice on average, but the bitrate changes a lot within the same file.

I haven't actually seen a single 1080p raw bluray file with a higher video bitrate than 35 Mbps. Maybe with TrueHD/Atmos audio the total bitrate could push past 40, but 100 Mbps is way more than you need for 1080p.

Even 4k doesn't seem to push past 50 Mbps, but I think that's because h.265/HEVC is more efficient for the same observed quality/CRF.

You are right. I don't know what your parent comment is talking about.

Blu-rays use H.264 High Level 4.1. That has a maximum bitrate (for a single buffer) of 50 Mbps. The average bitrate for an entire disc is usually closer to 25-30. Even the most extreme cases, like the mastered-in-4K Lawrence of Arabia, have peaks at about 48 Mbps, and average bitrates of about 42 Mbps.

If you're having issues streaming Blurays on a 100 Mbps network, the speed of the network is not your problem!

> If you're having issues streaming Blurays on a 100 Mbps network, the speed of the network is not your problem!

Well, it COULD be the problem if you're not actually getting the 100 Mbps. I've diagnosed WiFi that should have a lot more headroom than 100 Mbps but still stutters on mid-bitrate 1080p. Signal degradation

NFS can not use the entire raw bandwidth for application data, and it is very likely that mplayer compresses its filesystem calls instead of making a perfectly spaced stream of them.

Also, Ethernet does simply stops working way before 100% of the bandwidth is used.

I don't know why you expect things to run smoothly at 50% utilization.

NFS is not the most effect protocol however NFS3 over UDP should be able to hit 75% liberate on that 100M link easy. Something else is the bottle neck here. I have done a great deal of testing on this on 100M all the way to 100G links in my career and properly tuned you should be able to hit 80% or so or the link speed at real data through put.

Can't wait to buy this, boot it up, play with it for four hours, then stick it in the same desk drawer with the other Pis I have bought over the years.

(The upgrades look great, just my attention span is not so great)

That's silly. RasPis are stupidly useful.

I've got:

* A Zero W hooked up to a PM2.5 to do air quality monitoring in the house. Just bought a couple more sensors for it (VOC, eCO2, etc), but haven't hooked them up yet.

* A 3B+ running the UniFi controller for my home network.

* One is running a custom Hue automation I built to shift the color temperature of the lights throughout the day.

* One is built into an internet connected dog treat dispenser I built as a gift.

* A rather dusty Pi is running CNCjs so I can have a decent interface to my cheap grbl CNC.

* And finally I have a Pi running OctoPrint for my 3D printer.

And that's just the ones currently running. I've got two more in progress. One to automate an exhaust fan based on inside and outside temperatures. Another is destined for the garage where it will replace the not-so-great MyQ "smart" functionality of the garage door opener.

To each their own I suppose, but I've been consuming RasPis like candy. $60 all-in gets you a fairly beefy platform with almost all the I/O you could require and a vast ecosystem of software and HATs. Honestly their only downside is that at some point I'll have to reconfigure my home network when I start exhausting my current internal /24 with 200 RasPis.

> A Zero W hooked up to a PM2.5 to do air quality monitoring in the house. Just bought a couple more sensors for it (VOC, eCO2, etc), but haven't hooked them up yet.

Do you have any resources on how to set up something like that?

Adafruit sells a lot of air quality sensors that can work with RasPi, Arduino, etc. They also have lots of guides. So I'd just go on there and take a look. My setup isn't really unique. I used this link: https://www.balena.io/blog/build-an-environment-and-air-qual... as my guide for setting up something with logging and graphing. I didn't do a full Docker-fied Balena cloud deal; I just replicated the stack manually and used their guide as inspiration. It's overkill, but was quick and works fine.

> One is running a custom Hue automation I built to shift the color temperature of the lights throughout the day.

Ooooh do you have the code up somewhere for this? I would love to set it up at home :)

Hue has a Labs addon that does this. You can try that easily. Didn't work for me though.

If you have Home Assistant, someone built code for that: https://community.home-assistant.io/t/circadian-light-with-p...

As for mine, it's a total hack job, but for what it's worth: https://gist.github.com/fpgaminer/7840a6f2fb2d3a3be83625d7ac...

I don't do the fancy minute by minute adjustments to the color temperature; just a couple fixed settings for time of day and based on when the sun sets. And I just have it adjust a scene, which I have my Hue switches configured to use when I turn the lights on.

There's no good way to have this system work with, for example, turning on the lights through Alexa/Siri/etc since they won't use the Circadian scene that's been setup. But what I've got works well enough for now.

Not the OP but I use Kelvin for this, works great! It basically treats my Hue White Ambience bulbs like Flux, where they automatically dim and warm in the evenings. Those changes happen gradually over the course of minutes/hours so it's not jarring.


I'll throw mine in as well, it automates changing the color temperature to help with better sleep:


> * A Zero W hooked up to a PM2.5 to do air quality monitoring in the house. Just bought a couple more sensors for it (VOC, eCO2, etc), but haven't hooked them up yet.

We have neighbors that smoke, and sometimes based upon wind patterns it blows into our yard. Any idea if they have sensors that can pick up this sort of thing so I can close our windows?

Next step. Have the pi auto close your windows

You'll probably need to research what the particle size(s) is(are) for cigarette smoke, but this detects a bunch of different sizes: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/15103

I have some code to read from this, it's not too hard. PM me if you're interested in my code. (I can open source it.)

Should be picked up by a PM2.5 sensor.

Which CO2 sensor did you go with and how happy are you with it, if you don't mind talking about it?

I haven't used it yet, only have the PM2.5 hooked up right now. But for what it's worth I grabbed the Adafruit SGP30 breakout. I'm not going to be "happy" with it, since it's not a real CO2 sensor, but I don't have $1000 for a real sensor. Hopefully it'll be interesting regardless. The PM2.5 sensor for all its faults has at least given me a better idea of what activities around the house cause increases in particulate matter. It's not useful information, but it's fun and interesting.

I'm using a co2meter.com one [1] connected with USB. Reading out the values is a bit slow, but I just do that in a cron job every 5 minutes and log the results. This does exactly what I needed it to do with a minimum of fuss, so I'm happy with it.

[1] "CO2Meter RAD-0301 Mini CO2 Monitor" on Amazon, $70

How great would it be if Apple built CO2 and particulate sensors into their products.

So uh...what if I have no interest in home automation or possess a CNC or a 3D printer?

Then perhaps this would interest you: https://pi-hole.net/

You are posting here, so at least internet access you should have :)

EDIT: What about a magic mirror? https://forum.magicmirror.builders/

I actually set up a pihole a week ago. Still trying to figure out to how optimize my use out of it as it doesn't block everything (mainly Chinese stuff).

I also considered a magic mirror, but my problem with a magic mirror is that I don't have the tools necessary to build my own frame.

That is awesome, it took me awhile to start using mine. I just put together a pi hole, plex server on Rockpro64 and I just bought a tinker board from Frys for $50. Runs a bit hot though

What software are you running? I have been using Dietpi for almost all my projects. Plex comes native( as an option to install) and a bunch of other software.

I actually came here to ask which would be a better platform for building a CNC, Raspberry Pi or Arduino. Is your cheap grbl CNC using an arduino to control the steppers?

Yeah it's the cheap 3018 Pro from Sainsmart. An Arduino runs GRBL to control the steppers. I tacked on a RasPi 3B+ running CNCjs so the CNC could be operated headlessly.

Normally you need a laptop or something hooked into it over USB to feed it your G code, or do manual control. But I didn't want my laptop in the shop getting dusty while the CNC runs, and I also didn't want to risk the cheap CNC failing and throwing a voltage spike into my laptop.

So I opted to use the RasPi. Also makes it nice to have a web interface, and you can add lots of stuff to it (e.g. camera).

(Sainsmart sells an offline controller attachment, which allows manual control with buttons and feeding gcode off an sd card. But the RasPi is only a little more money and you get the web interface, etc)

P.S. I should tack on the usual warning about hooking up a life threatening device like a CNC to the network. I use an SSH tunnel to keep mine secure, instead of exposing CNCjs directly.

I do the same thing! Plus, with the webcam integration you can keep an eye on it from another room. (Not too far though in case something goes wrong)

>* One is running a custom Hue automation I built to shift the color temperature of the lights throughout the day.

Do you even need a RPI for this? Some of these seem overengineered.

> Some of these seem overengineered.

Oh for sure. Normally I'd throw the Hue automation software on my home server, but it's busy with other stuff.

Other than that, for the other stuff I listed, I would have said the same a few years ago and opted for ESPs, Arduinos, STM32s, or some other "lightweight" solutions. But the Pi has gotten to this nice sweet spot now that they've got WiFi built-in and most of the rough edges are gone. They can do almost everything the other solutions can do, and for the things they can't you can buy HATs that fill in the gaps. So it's just nice to have one big, universal hammer that I can pull out for my crazy projects.

Most importantly, I don't like wasting time any more, and I'm willing to spend a couple tens of bucks on RasPis that might be overkill, rather than save X dollars making the best, slimmest, most engineered solution around the perfect STM32 chip.

* A 3B+ running the UniFi controller for my home network.

What's the unifi controller?

Just the software that runs Ubiquiti equipment. You can run it on anything, the "cloud key" device Ubiquiti has is probably the most popular, I just run it on a Windows server in my network. Some people run it on a rpi, though I've never understood why.

Probably because it's cheaper than the Cloud Key.

It is, but in my experience the reliability factor is pretty ugly for the rpis. I'd rather either pay directly for the device designed for it, or just run the software on a machine already on the network. Obviously that doesn't work for everyone.

RasPi reliability is tricky, for sure. The recipe that's working for me now is brand name power supplies (RasPi foundations, CanaKit, or Adafruit) and brand name SD cards. Don't trust SD cards that come in RasPi bundles or kits, even from Adafruit; I've had those fail horribly. So far all my Samsung cards are working great. I've also been using A1 grade SanDisks, no issues so far (only been a few months) as well as using cheap SSDs for one RasPi. I highly doubt the SSD is going to run into any issues, and it works seamlessly on the new Pis with a nice boost in performance.

The RasPi itself is so cheap I think a lot of people cheap out on the power supply and such, which ends up giving them lots of problems.

Anyway, given the poor reviews I've seen on the Cloud Key regarding hardware failures, especially on the newer versions, I just went with a Pi. But yeah, if someone has a machine on their network already, that's a great option too. I just wish Ubiquiti would release an official Docker image.

EDIT: I'm not necessarily arguing that people use RasPis for UniFi controllers, or that you personally should. I just thought your comment was a good opportunity to discuss RasPi reliability, because I know a lot of people have trouble with that.

For power supplies, my go-to is Apple iPad chargers (the older ones) because they're built to last.

Long-term, my plan is to mod some flavor of computer PSU and get properly regulated 5V out of it.

Also, I'm one of those people who runs a UniFi controller on a Pi. I used Docker, it's been totally fine for my uses.

I’m using a drok buck converter off of a 12vdc battery to run a jetson nano. Solid so far.

In my experience, anything other than the Cloud Key is quite unreliable. I have been running it on my Win10 desktop without many issues besides the annoyingly restarting after updating.

I run it as a Docker container on my unRaid server and it's been super stable.

I run it on Server 2016, it's bulletproof there.

Essentially, the thing that runs a local web UI to configure/manage other UniFi devices.

Thanks for the ideas :)

Don't forget to keep it powered while it's in the drawer so you could ssh and build something really awesome.

Maybe it's a personality flaw, but I get plenty of satisfaction from just reading blog write-ups if things I could have done with my tech junk, without all the associated time invested.

It's much easier to vicariously enjoy projects like these, which is why I think drawer-dwelling is an inevitable destiny for most of these widgets.

My flaw regarding SBCs, is that I want to master the whole stack (what variant of linux.. , how is <multimedia server> is written,...), yet I don't have the context to, so I get fed up with almost good use cases and lose interest.

That's also why I'm tring microcontrollers, it's back to low level, less shiny projects, but mentally saner.

Any suggestions on microcontrollers? I love my pi but I've been wanting to try my hand at something a little less, desktop-like.

STM32s have great Rust support[0] if that matters to you. Personally I strongly prefer the embedded_hal[1] and RTFM[2] APIs over the Arduino ones, although the peripheral coverage is a fair bit weaker. Their DISCOVERY kits[3] (preassembled boards that are ready to program, just like Arduinos) are ~$20, and also double as programmers if you eventually end up designing your own boards.

[0]: https://docs.rust-embedded.org/discovery/index.html

[1]: https://github.com/rust-embedded/embedded-hal

[2]: https://github.com/japaric/cortex-m-rtfm

[3]: Such as https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/stm32f3discovery.html

I love the TI launchpads.


Seems like the number of them has gone way up so if you don't want to waste time thinking about which one to try, here are some suggestions.

Cheap and minimal ($10): http://www.ti.com/tool/msp-exp430g2et

High spec for things like motor control ($34): http://www.ti.com/tool/LAUNCHXL-F28379D

I would recommend taking the path of least resistance and getting something Arduino compatible. After ignoring it for years, I tried it out last week. It is very easy to use. And the M0- and M4- based boards are very capable.

The Adafruit Trinket M0 was what I needed for a recent project. It's $8 and tiny. The feather boards also look very neat, if you need BLE, the ability to stack peripherals, etc. They all integrate with Arduino so you can be up and running in a minute. (They also support Python running on the device, which is maybe even easier than Arduino.)

ESP8266 or the ESP32 (if you want something beefier that also has bluetooth) give fantastic bang for your buck, especially if you get them from a trustworthy-ish store on Aliexpress

The ESP8266 is a fantastic platform and Adafruit has some great breakout boards for it. I’ve heard good things about its successor the ESP32 as well.

Well, same reason why so many people watch playthroughs of difficult games on YT without playing the games themselves. There is a pay off for seeing what you could do if you had the time or motivation to do so.

"Maybe it's a personality flaw"

I'm sure it's a 'flaw' that most of us have.

I also like getting grand plans for a (hardware) project, ordering the parts from Ali express, then losing interest before the parts have arrived, so they still end up in 'the drawer'.

> with the other Pis I have bought over the years

My wife refers to this as the raspberry pile.

That's pretty clever. You should marry her.

He can't, she is already married.

Marry his wife ? Again ?

(The GP was making a joke)

Yay, Reddit all over again...

Love it, A+

Just blow her a raspberry when she says that. ;)

I can relate. However these days I have found a new life for those abandoned Pis: I install Pi-Hole [1] on them and set them up for family and close friends.

[1] https://pi-hole.net/

I run a pi-hole as well and I have to say it's been an absolutely great addition to my home network.

It essentially blocks tracking and advertisements on all devices, not just my computers with ad block. Just need to keep the block lists up to date every couple weeks, but it's honestly great.

I wish pi-hole was just a tiny bit more polished. I found it takes a lot of work (and knowledge of linux networking) to get up and running properly and stable.

A great option I've found is to use the DietPi distribution that has Pi-hole configuration/install wizard built in (https://dietpi.com)

After having various weird network issues and instability on a different OS with Pi-hole (updates often broke), I switched to DietPi, and now my PiHole and OS upgrades are extremely stable.

The DietPi installer/configuration for Pi-hole sets up all the networking for you in the install "wizard", took all the weird networking headaches out for me

What issues have you encountered? I haven't seen any problems with it.

I've run into the same. It often would come back from a reboot without DNS restarted correctly. I never went through a Pi Hole update without having to manually fix things either.

A few weeks ago I switched to Ad Guard Home. Has been rock solid since. The big dancehaus it doesn't support the exact same filter files.

I believe you can add your own filter files, so in this sense you could basically link the same ones right?

Definitely, and I've added some of the same ones.

What I meant is it doesn't seem to parse the same range of formats, so it rejected some of Pi Hole's filters as malformed.

Yeah - I found it ironic that out of the box I couldn't get a pi-hole to do DNS lookups. It always took manual fixing.

I know this isn't terribly helpful to you, but I have never had any problems with using or upgrading Pi Hole. I have been running mine for a few years now, and everything has been smooth and error-free.

What else would you recommend along side pi-hole, something easy to setup and maintain like pihole?

MotionEye OS is good as a camera surveillance system. Needs a USB camera or a Raspberry Pi camera. Takes a bit of tweaking to get the optimal camera settings (using a GUI), but then it works well. LibeElec is useful as a home theatre setup, based on Kodi.

Second the idea of MotionEye OS - I have one running as a camera for the front door of my house, emailing me when it triggers to my phone's gmail account. So I have a kind of running "backup" of events if anything happens.

I use to run ZoneMinder on an old PC, but it was a bit flakey, way too crazy to set up for a home system; I had learned how to config and admin it over the last several years, but I was just plain tired of it. It's another great system for security cameras, but not really for a home, unless you have a ton of cameras that need monitoring, and don't mind the dedication of a beefy machine to the task.

MotionEye OS is more a distributed solution. It is possible to set it up so one install can monitor multiple cameras (in some manner - I haven't played with it), but I like it as a simple single IP camera turn-key solution. It basically can turn a Rasperry Pi into a cheap wireless IP camera that isn't locked down or tied to a proprietary ($) cloud system.

Using a RasPi Zero W and the cheapest camera you can find, you can build such a camera for under $50.00 USD off Amazon; probably cheaper if you shop around a bit more. The only cheaper option I've found (but it takes more to set it up properly) is the ESP32 camera modules that you can get.

I haven't looked at LibreElec in a while - have they improved the setup for infrared receivers and remotes? That's the main thing that caused me to switch to OSMC. I'm using an IR receiver hooked to the GPIO pins, and OSMC made it quite simple to set up with my old RC6 remote.

PiVPN, if you have the need to remote access your home network:


I have one with rutorrent that acts our house seedbox / file server. I also added droppy as a simple, user friendly file browser for my flatmates. Obviously, this all runs on docker-compose, because I'm a very weak man (but also, it makes managing the whole thing trivial once setup)

I have a raspberry pi zero w that I use with PivPN and Pihole and also I compiled tor on it. I can vpn into my home network , use tor as my socks 5 proxy and I also use pinhole to deal with tracking and advertising. best 5 dollars I've ever spent.

I used to run pi-hole, but just switched over to: nextdns.io It works like a charm!

That's why I switched to esp8266, smaller and 1$. Can fit a lot more in the same drawer.

esp32 is a great way to fill drawers as well.

shh don't tell all our secrets

I'm just laughing so hard at this thread. I also have a drawer, but with a bunch of Sonoff Home Automation devices. I promise I'll activate them one day!

My wife doesn't have a clever name, but instead of usually rolling her eyes at yet another unfinished project, she loves this particular drawer because it's perfectly (and neatly) organized, like the best of unused item drawers.

Sonoff with Tasmota firmware let you control all your devices easily (increadibly easy). You just need a raspi or a simple(and cheaper) orange pi zero with a mosquitto mqtt server.

This is exactly what I wanted to do. Flash them with Tasmota and have them be HomeKit devices.

There's a collecting factor to it too.

I ordered 2 of those years ago and they are still in the antistatic bag..

I did program one to helloworld over http.

Check out espruino and write the firmware in JS!

I use one of my Pis as a PulseAudio network sink that lets me stream music to it from every computer in the house. Not the most creative use but maybe some inspiration.

Right? The most use one has ever seen from me was about 3 hours of playing SNES roms until I realized it was distracting me from Netflix.

I have to confess that I have never even booted up my Pi-3. Now I wonder if it is worth booting up the Pi-3 or should I wait till I get my hands on the Pi-4. That way I don't have to think of upgrading.

The Pi 3 is no less usable than it was before the announcement. Why bother getting a Pi 4 when you haven't found a use for your 3 yet? I still use a Pi 2 with no complaints.

One downside to the 4 is that it is moving from the low power to laptop realm in terms of power consumption which was my main interest in them. If top performance is what you care about, the Raspberry Pi is the wrong place to go looking for it.

My growing collection of rpis includes an rpi2 with a usb wifi dongle that still gets a fair amount of use. Mostly for experiments, but truth be told, it's not an old slouch.

These pi models are all tailor-made options. I think its a mistake to think in terms of "older models" when you consider the lower power requirement and higher physical stability of the rpi2 (doesn't overheat even without a fan, for example). The Zeros are less powerful but still belong in the range because of exactly that.

Thanks for the informative answer. My comment was slightly tongue in cheek :-) but I appreciate you taking the time to answer. I will indeed make an effort to at least boot up my Pi-3.

Heh, I know the feeling. I have three retired Pi systems (two OG units and a 1B+), but I have three running 24/7 as well: first is a 2B+ running OSMC as my media center. The second one is a 3B with a sense hat, running rtl433 and MRTG to graph outdoor and basement temperature and humidity received from transmitters on-premises, barometric pressure from the hat (and also displaying data on the LED display). The last is a 3B+ running Home Assistant.

I've been - cross my fingers - lucky with MicroSD cards (usually Samsung, sometimes SanDisk), but having USB3 on the new model is quite the game-changer.

ETA: I do have rsync backing up my Pi setups, so losing a MicroSD would be merely annoying rather than catastrophic.

I sold a company and the hardware wasn't included. I have a bunch sitting idle, plus about 1500 RFID tags and 20 readers. Takes up space but I can't get rid of. Should sell them.

Ebay is your friend.

i'm interested...

In which part? We only have a handful of pi's and half belong to my co-founder, he may want them. As for the RFID readers and RFID tags, we could definitely part with those.

I have a few in drawers, but I do have three running at most times in my house. One is literally just a print server. One is for hobbies. One is for watching movies.

Depending on the purpose, for example if somebody just wants a compact home cloud, the Odroid HC2 could also - still - be considered: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-hc2-home-cloud-two/

- Half the RAM but double the cores. I'm waiting for some benchmarks to see if the RPi4 is faster and by how much.

- Also Gigabit Ethernet and it works great. My downloads are always at 108-111MB/s for the whole transfer.

- Not USB 3.0 but has "oldschool" SATA through an internal USB-2-SATA adapter. It's at least more compact, otherwise the RPi4 with an external USB 3.0 drive will probably work even better.

- works with a normal 12V power supply, which could be lying around already, from older external drives.

Not to disrespect the RPi4, as I'll be getting one of them too very soon.

> compact home cloud

Can we just start calling them servers again?

The distinction in actual usage between using cloud, server, and homelab to describe their setup seems to be rooted in their purpose.

* Home Lab :: Running a partial/full enterprise IT stack for fun and education.

* Home Server :: Running primarily internal services like file storage, backups, media streaming, home automation, maybe some light networking.

* Home Cloud :: Running primarily external services on the public internet to replace 3rd party SaaS services. More often than not this is done with a VPS provider rather than physical hardware in your home.

So maybe you find the terminology annoying since everything is cloud these days but it's genuinely useful to us folks in the forums. You can also call "home cloud" selfhosting if you find it less jarring.

I am not sure that is a great distinction. A server is traditionally serving some resource, usually to multiple people. The idea behind 'home cloud' is to host 'slice' of a server yourself. Something that used to be hard because of the cost of hardware, making hosting only a few 'sessions' expensive.

Of course hardware hasn't been expensive for probably a decade or more. Today it is almost entirely a software problem. Or more precisely how to create independent quality software when many developers are employed by large corporations and no one wants to pay for development. I am not sure much is happening on that front.

if you run a "home cloud" on a raspberry pi 2/3/4 or an orange pic or something else entirely and it fails, will your "cloud" go down with the hardware?

If does go down then it's not cloud, no matter what hardware you're using.

In general, my rule of thumb is: what's the upper limit, the capacity or your wallet?

If the limit is the capacity, then it's HA.

If the limit is your wallet, then it's cloud.

My synology nas emails me every time it is down and every time Amazon or Comcast are down.

Last I checked, Amazon had the fewest 9s of the three (going back a few years...)

Dont break their delusions that "the cloud" is the prefect place were there is no down time, no security issues...

If you pay enough money to run things on their computers all problems are solved. it is only when you self host that is the problem :)

I see value in what you call home cloud. It has a lot of potential for distributing things and giving control of data back to people. Is there a place where I can follow developments like this?

Also, it seems like Western Digital would be an ideal player in the space since they want to bring processing to data storage via RISC-V.

Synology is probably the biggest player in this actually. They sell NAS hardware you can just add software to, with a selection of "home cloud" software of their own.

I don't see proprietary hardware+software bundles counting as a way to "give data back to the people".

On the hardware front I'll plug the project a friend of mine is working on[0]. As far as self-hosted software goes, the file sharing/sync section[1] of awesome self-hosted is great (the whole list is great).

[0] https://rootprojects.org/hub/

[1] https://github.com/Kickball/awesome-selfhosted#file-sharing-...

Unless your server offers some form of slicing of resources (containerization / virtualization) then it's difficult to describe it as a cloud in anything other than a buzzword.

I agree with you and appreciate the granularity that the distinctions afford.

Would you please recommend one of these forums?

I think most ISPs don't allow servers on residential, so one would be better off using a home cloud. Preferably one with blockchain to disrupt blocking or throttling.

Most ISP’s don’t actually care if you host a small server for a low number of users. As they shouldn’t.

Seperately, you’re not going to fool anyone by calling a server something else. (Not that “home cloud” is a bad term, but I think everyone realizes that still constitutes a server.)

> Seperately, you’re not going to fool anyone by calling a server something else.

If we had the logs I'd bet money that someone Googled "home cloud" to see if that would somehow get around hosting a server behind residential.

I'd also bet that even more people nodded "knowingly" while reading my sentence about blockchain.

I had an Exynos 5422, and when it came out it was a great card, however, nowadays, it's old generation - it consumes more and it's less performing than the latest archictures (A7x).

"Double the cores" is not a valid consideration - 4+ core configurations typically have 2/4 cores (the 5422 has 4) with a high-powered architecture, and the remainder with a low powered one.

Compare for example the XU4 with the N2 - the N2 is more powerful, and yet, it has less cores (4 hp. + 2 lp.) and requires no fan.

The RPi is an interesting configuration - they have 4 high-powered architecture cores (4x A72) only. It seems it doesn't require any fan.

Of course if one requires specific chipset/components, we're talking about specific use cases, which is another story.

It does at least need a heatsink. Though it will function without it, you may get temperature warnings, and it will run hot enough to significantly reduce component life. I've also hooked an old PC case fan to the GPIO pins or a USB port, and it runs slower (5V vs the 12 it expects) but does the job fine.

To me, the RPi is the choice only because every other single board I've used had so much less support than RPi does... I have a 3B+ running retropie and it's doing okay, but if this one can also do a decent job with h265 under kodi, I'll be very happy indeed.

Ordered a starter canakit with a couple extras, and looks like I won't see it until August. :-( ... I'll probably forget I ordered it by the time it comes.

> the Odroid HC2 could also - still - be considered

Even don't think about it - shitty support from vendor. They don't care about updates in general.

They do update their repositories for officially supported SBCs.

Of couse, such SBCs have an expiry date (which is also official), but this applies to any vendor, not only to them.

Additionally, they're one of the most engaging companies when it comes to community - just check their forums and see for yourself.

Anybody done some "diff - u [vanilla] [vendor] > patch" work for these SBCs to fork their kernel? Maybe keep it up to mainline?

I've performed a `git cherry -v` out of curiosity a month ago, and there were a few dozen commits (even reverts!).

While I think pretty much any programmer could reapply them, my guess is that in the long term, one needs to know how device drivers development works, in order to adapt to the kernel changes. But I'm not a kernel dev, so the maintenance could be easier.

Are you sure? I've worked with a myriad of ARM devices, and I would say that despite their small size, Hardkernel are one of the most responsive companies when I have had issues.

I say that as both a Gentoo and Kali ARM dev

I'm sure, just check available OS images for their old boards.

Hardware vendors hardly are the best sources for OS images, except maybe for very new boards. When I shop for a board I always look if it is supported by community driven projects such as Armbian, DietPI or even plain Debian.

Take a look here if your board is supported.



Im excited to look at the wifi on the RP4! Any word on the chipset used for that?

On a more personal note - thank you for your service.

You got any advice for pulling the aircrack_ng/rtl8812au driver from github and making it into a patch for building in-kernel? I really like having signed-module verification, but I also really want this driver.

The credits at the end of the post thank folks who worked on the CYW43455 integration, which matchs up with the raspberry expectation of being a (former) Broadcom part.

Not from hardkernel. They have decent support.

I can't read that article because Medium has decided that I have to login to do so (and possibly sign up).

Needless to say, I won't be reading that link.

Wordpress.com wouldn't have done that with your content. Just saying.

Hi, author of the piece here! You're right that WordPress wouldn't have given you a popup before you could read, for free, the article I spent a couple of months working on. It also wouldn't have provided me with any income to support creating the article in the first place.

Medium, on the other hand, does. I mean, it's not much - I get a slice of the revenue from paying subscribers', based on how much they 'applaud' my piece - but it's higher than zero. Despite this, Medium also makes it available to read free of charge for non-members - up to, I believe, a somewhat miserly three articles a month, though you can bypass this if you really must by using a private browsing window to get another three, and another three, and another three, and another three...

I've got kids to feed and bills to pay. If you really don't want to click an X on the login prompt and read it all for free, I can give you my payment details and sell you a PDF copy...

I wouldn’t know. It’s not like I’ve consumed my “fair free share” of your content, I’ve apparently consumed my fair free share of content across all of medium.

Would you accept to be requested documents when you enter the mall? Would you find normal to be stopped by a security guard that says “sir/madame, you’ve browsed enough stores for free without handing in your id card and personal data, please fill this form or leave” ?

I owe you nothing. If anything, you owe me. It’s my time that builds your audience, not the other way around.

Saying as someone that also detests medium:

- would you mind sharing how much you actually you expect in revenue from this article?

- Have you considered any other ways of monetizing it? Just an idea: if you had your own blog and registered on Brave as a content creator, you could be getting a few cents from me already.

Massively depends on performance. You get money from a subset of a subset of a subset: there's the set of the audience; there's the subset of the audience that are logged in to Medium at the time; there's the subset of the logged-in subset of the audience that bother to click the 'Applaud' button; there's the subset of the bother-to-click-Applaud subset of the logged-in subset of the audience who actually have a paying membership.

Then how much you actually get is totally up in the air. If mine's the only piece Reader A applauds that month, I get 100% of the revenue (minus Medium's cut, of course - the house always wins); if Reader B has applauded 1,000 pieces this month, I get 0.1 percent of the revenue (as do the other 999 authors.)

It's a model which is inherently insular: of the traffic that has visited the piece so far, 90% is external (and thus earns me nothing other than name-recognition) and 10% is internal to Medium. Only a tiny, tiny fraction of that 10% has applauded, and I won't know what that translates to in terms of Cash Monies until Medium calculates it and tells me. I'd be much better off promoting it to existing Medium members - such as by joining a 'publication' on Medium - and ignoring external traffic sources, but I don't want to do that.

As a ballpark, though, the answer - long in coming - is "not much, but considerably more than I'd get on Brave." The Raspberry Pi 3 B+ benchmarking piece I wrote on Medium has earned about $277 lifetime; if this earns the same, I'll have done very well indeed.

Thankfully, I'm not relying on the Medium income: I've pieces in various websites and magazines based on the same core data, which pay one heck of a lot better!

Thanks for your answer. In all honesty and taking what you said in consideration, I still believe that the Medium model should die in a fire, I won't feel bad for not supporting you through it and I hope you consider other alternatives.

I'm not sure you read what I wrote, but I have considered other alternatives: it's called "writing for magazines." If you'd like to support me without supporting Medium, you'll likely find me inside more than one bound collection of thinly-sliced dead tree at your nearest newsagent, supermarket, or bookseller.

I've even considered Brave. Hell, I've even tried Brave. According to my email archive, I signed up as a publisher in January 2018. Sadly, it's just not a sustainable model yet - which is why my piece is monetised by Medium, not Brave.

I wouldn't be keen on supporting dead tree magazines and its excessive ad-to-information ratio, newspapers that only are tangentially focused on providing good content and more focused on creating constant crisis as well or any kind of publishing industry with so many middleman that need to be eliminated.

Sorry, it is really not my intention to pile on you. I am just really tired of the current state of affairs in regards to the publishing/authoring economy. I know it is easier said than done, but we need to have more content creators that are willing to take a principled stand and stay away from these actors and start creating exclusively on terms that are more ethical.

If you're using Brave, I'm assuming you're using the browser's main claim to fame: the ad-blocking/ad-switching functionality, yes?

So, you won't support content creators who publish on a website which uses advertising.

You won't support content creators who publish on a website which allows non-members and free-tier members access to a limited number of articles a month and charges a fee, distributed to the content creators, for unlimited access.

You won't support content creators who publish in print, in magazines or newspapers.

I'm sensing a theme, here: you won't support content creators.

I would love to host my own website (actually, I host several) and write the same kind of content I do now, but how exactly am I going to feed the bills and pay my children? This is literally my job - I'm not just dashing out a quick blog post as I Segway to the London office of my cryptocurrency startup for a day of find-and-replace in the whitepaper. If I'm not getting paid for my words I'm not getting paid at all.

Brave is not the answer, I'm sorry to say. Something like Brave may be - I used to play around with Flattr, which was the same kind of micropayments model as Medium but applicable to any third-party web content, and doesn't have the ethical issue of blocking everybody's adverts but its own - but Brave ain't it, at least as it stands.

You don't want to support content creators, you want to support Brave. That's fine, but don't frame it as wanting to support content creators but only in one very specific and questionably-ethical way.

Otherwise, put your money where your mouth is: pop me a payment across, in the currency or cryptocurrency of your choosing, and I'll publish the same piece on my main website. No adverts, unless you count the cover shots of the books I've published (hey, there's another way you could support me - and if you're worried about ethics, some of them are available for free download under a Creative Commons licence!) down the side.

I used to have about ~$15/month deposited on flattr* for quite some time, and the main reason that I've been using brave is not because of its anti-ad stance but rather their anti-tracking + the possibility of a way to fund content creators.

I am also contributing about ~10€/month on patreon for different software projects and writers. I've written to more than one youtube channel producers asking them to look into alternatives so that they could take my money. The Quilette model is also something that I do appreciate.

Believe me when I say that I am more than willing to support people that create content. And depending how much you are asking for me to send you, I'd gladly take on your offer.

* story time: I got a call from an Eyeo recruiter some months ago, who was looking for people in their ad-block/acceptable ads team. It turned into a most-of-the-time-friendly discussion about how acceptable ads does nothing about the tracking of the users, so I wouldn't be interested in joining their team and me asking him to call me back only if he had some position on flattr.

The problem with Patreon - and thus Quilette, which is 95 percent funded by Patreon - is that there's a massive gulf you can't cross. Popular Content Creator who has a hojillion Patreon backers and gets $10,000 a month from 'em has no worries; person who plays about with it in their spare time and gets $5 a month can buy a beer. Job's a good 'un.

But what about the person who wants to write full time, but hasn't built the audience yet? How do they go from $5 a month to paying the bills? In my case, I didn't have to: by the time I switched careers I had enough regular clients to cover all my outgoings, albeit only just. Quit the day job, picked up some more clients, and here I am doing it full-time to this day.

If I were relying wholly on Patreon - or Brave, or Flattr, or even Medium - I couldn't have done that. Patreon isn't going to give me $300 on spec to write an article that might not do well; Medium won't front me a few grand against royalties so I can take time to write a book.

D'you know who will? The traditional publishers.

I appreciate you have a personal stance on this, but so do I - and mine comes not from the perspective of "I'd like to read this but it's on a website I don't like" but from the perspective of "if I don't get paid for this I'm literally homeless."

Actually, I have a Patreon account - https://www.patreon.com/ghalfacree - I signed up just before the new fee scheme came in to lock in the old rates, but never launched it (hence the zero backers.) Don't really have time to give it the love it would need to gain traction, either - again, we're back to the problem of not having the cash to go from zero Patrons to I-can-feed-my-children Patrons.

I am sorry but this is the point where we disagree. "I still need to make a living" is not that I would accept as an argument to justify all of the unethical issues that arise from the attention economy industry.

Yes, this means that I will actively find ways to accelerate the demise of these business. No matter how much I want to support content creators, it does not make me responsible in guaranteeing their job.

You can click the X in the top right hand corner of the popup.

It's still anooying though.

The OrangePi 3 at $40 is also pretty neat, PCIe 1x, 8GB onboard eMMC, 4x USB 3.0, Bluetooth 5, Wireless AC (pretty sure they beat Raspberry Pi to the punch on this...) and it has mainline kernel support: http://www.orangepi.org/Orange%20Pi%203/

A53 SoC, new RPi4 with A72 is going to run circles around this one.

Unless you are doing disk io and most of your CPU cycles spent on it.

Software support is lacking in this device. No OpenGL, no retro gaming with the March 2019 images. Are you configuring yours differently?

Old and new Mali GPUs just got mainline kernel support: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19908741

The one downside to OrangePi systems is that they use a (semi-) non-standard DC connector (1.8mm I think, definitely not 2.1mm or 2.5mm though).

I think this is to avoid the plentiful 12v adapters that use those sizes, as you could fry the board with a bad PSU. The 5v adapters that do use those more standard sizes are generally 500mA or 1A, which is enough to (unreliably) boot and run the board.

I have been using Odroid XU4 for home server (home assistant), personal CCTV, controls IR blaster and other sensors for years, still running perfect without rebooting for months. I also have Pi 3 for Pi Hole, but honestly my Odroid XU4 is more stable than Pi 3.

I had ODROID C2, I don't know how things are now but I've returned mine as it hanged a lot and had lots of different issues. At same time I had 2x Raspberry Pi and it worked fine. This was couple of years ago.

The USB port on the Odroid HC2 is 2.0, but the SATA interface is connected to a USB3 but, as is the Gigabit Ethernet.

Furthermore, SATA and Ethernet are connected to individual USB3 busses, as opposed to earlier RPi designs where everything shared the same USB2 bus.

I haven't checked the RPi 4 specs yet, but i can imagine it's still the same layout, just a faster bus, which can be "just fine" - it should be plenty fast to saturate a Gigabit ethernet as well as the SSD/HDD IO required to do that.

For the RPi 4, they moved the ethernet controller onto the SoC, it's not connected via USB any more.

That is exactly what I've been interested in, and the information I was looking for thanks.

The USB-2-Sata interface is indeed USB 3.0. Thanks. USB 2.0 would be too slow to achieve my 100+ MB/s.

I'd love to run something like this, but I recently switched to ZFS which recommends having a lot of RAM (my NAS has 4GB). It's what kept me from going the route of the Helios 4.

That and is there really much point in using ZFS if you can't give it complete hardware control over the disk controllers?

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