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This guy is a complete fraud. He's collecting $927/month on Patreon by deceiving generous and hopeful programmers. The claims on the web page are outright lies.


README.txt: Right now there are several dependencies that you need to install: clang, glfw, freetype, libcurl.

web page claim: 400 KB compiler with zero dependencies

README.txt: Missing features that will be available soon: x64 machine code generation without a C compiler

web page claim: V compiles ≈1.2 million lines of code per second per CPU core. (Intel i5-7500 @ 3.40GHz, SM0256L SSD, no optimization). Such speed is achieved by direct machine code generation and a strong modularity.

README.txt: Missing features that will be available soon: hot code reloading

web page claim: Hot code reloading. Get your changes instantly without recompiling.

README.txt: Missing features that will be available soon: REPL

web page claim: V has a REPL

README.txt: Missing features that will be available soon: cross compiling

web page claim: Easy cross compilation. To cross compile your software simply run v -os windows . or v -os linux . No extra steps required, even for GUI and graphical apps!


Furthermore it's really shady to release only closed source builds 2 days before a source release. Why the sudden change of mind? https://twitter.com/v_language/status/1137750611389288450

There's evidence that this person cannot be trusted: https://github.com/voltapp/volt/issues/143 Some quotes from that issue: "Do you go read firefox history?" "Yea, this is really unnerving. I feel like I need to invalidate all my firefox sessions now. What did you do?" "Lol that's what you guys get for running proprietary software."

More evidence of false claims: https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/35

I'm all on board with friendly competition, but this is pretty hostile behavior to the open-source community. Be honest about what your software can and cannot do. And release source or GTFO.

Wow, calling me a fraud and a scam artist based on these "facts"?..

The compiler has ZERO dependencies, as stated on the website. You can build it with `clang v.c`.

Do you really think the compiler needs glfw or freetype to function? It's for the graphics library to build things like the tetris.v example.

As for clang, It was made very clear that V compiles to C in addition to emitting native code, and that it's much more stable at the moment.

Hot code reloading will be available on June 22.

Cross compiling already works, and you saw this on twitter. How can you claim it's a lie? https://twitter.com/v_language/status/1137537130887077890

> Hot code reloading will be available on June 22.

What the heck, so you have claimed that it's just a readme or source cleanup but that was actually a huge missing feature. You said that you have high standards [1], but you don't seem to have high standards on what you say.

[1] https://blog.vlang.io/post/13/Why-isn't-everything-already-o...

You need to detect sarcasm. Did you think I was serious when I said I was delaying by 2 days to clean up readme?

If you weren't serious at that time it'd be a bigger problem.

You remind me of another russian school kid "inventor" that "created" completely new OS named "BolgenOS" :D Basically reskinned Ubuntu and tried to present it as 100% original software.

> Do you really think the compiler needs glfw or freetype to function? It's for the graphics library to build things like the tetris.v example.

Do you ship the compiler with those libraries that require those packages? If yes, then the compiler is not 400kb. The compiler nowadays never means only the compiler executable, it means the complete environment it ships with.

The V compiler is the program that builds source in V. It has zero dependencies, and that's the claim.

The modules can have gigabytes of dependencies, this doesn't make the compiler depend on them.


Where am I subtracting it?

Yeah you don't. You never added the size of the dependencies (like clang) to the size of the compiler.

And thats what I am saying. You don't even need to add the size of your stdlib. A compiler does not include the stdlib as per your definition . So your compiler is actually much less than 400kb.

Please list these "dependencies" other than the C compiler that's needed to bootstrap the language anyway. I'll wait.

> other than the C compiler

On windows, clang is about 100 mb download and it further requires msvc install which is around 1 gb download if you only download the build tools.

That in itself is a fucking 1.1 gb dependency.

I originally did not call this project as fraudulent rather "This is not as advertised" which talked about here: https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/35

Note: some of the comments on that issue have been deleted by the v-lang creator as they were criticizing the claims made.

However, advertising a product can do something and then releasing it stating it cannot do it yet, is one thing, but accepting money for a product that does not what is advertised, is fraud.

If the features were advertised as goals, that would not have been an issue. But these features were advertised as existing and ready to use.

Please do not give this individual money!!!


If you want to support new languages that do as advertised, please support my language Odin or Andrew Kelley's language Zig.

Both are very good languages as alternatives to C but with different philosophies behind them.

Odin: https://odin-lang.org/ Zig: https://ziglang.org/


Stop advertising your language as being more capable than it is.

That is the only complaint. You are advertising under false pretenses and asking for money for early access to a product (through Patreon) which does match what is advertised.

First of all the language is released on June 22. It was released today for 7 hours. There's no more early access.

Second of all, you haven't listed any of these "false pretenses". Your AST and runtime points are laughable. So is the "dependency" on glfw and freetype.

By the way, you claimed V was too primitive to build anything other than Fibonacci.

What about this? :)


Are you going to retract your statement and apologize? Doubt it.

> He's collecting $927/month on Patreon by deceiving generous and hopeful programmers.

Oh my. This is alarming. I have never thought that the author was already getting that much money out of this incomplete piece of software.

He's up to 56% of the income I make on Patreon for Zig, and I've been busting my ass for years, working on solving a lot of the same problems, except it's been open source the whole time, and I only ever put claims on ziglang.org that describe actual status quo available software. It's really disheartening that such dishonest tactics are so effective.

Don’t get disheartened. You are writing actual software. He is a scam artist.

So true... I'm also thinking what's the point to open source under the umbrella of this V programming language something that is no more than a couple of examples.

And that's not his only patreon.

https://www.patreon.com/vlang is the one in question

but he also has https://www.patreon.com/voltapp

Nice scam.

I couldn’t see much code in his github so I assume it’s all smoke and mirrors.

How does this even get voted so high here? Just on the claims?

Because the author is simultaneously working on the Volt IM [1] and the language to make Volt? I can't really say about Volt as I haven't used it, but it is enough to establish that some concrete development is in progress. But you can't really sell an incomplete programming language in this way.

[1] https://volt-app.com/

What does working on multiple projects has to do with code availability?

Because Volt must have been written in V (please let me know if a counterevidence exists), V must have been at least mature enough to write Volt. I'm pretty sure that V does exist at this stage, but that doesn't convince me that it is viable, nor that it can get that much money.

>Because Volt must have been written in V (please let me know if a counterevidence exists)

The source of V or any substantial V project haven't been released, and the author making inaccurate claims about the compiler (and taking donations on Patreon, by the way.) Why should we accept without skepticism that (closed source app) was written with (closed source language)?

Have you ever analyzed the released Volt binary? It has symbols like this:

    000000010001dc30 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _f_1
    000000010001eba0 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _f_10
    00000001000219a0 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _f_100
    000000010004bae0 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _f_462
    000000010002a430 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _f_463
    0000000100037940 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _f_464
    000000010001f2f0 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _f_465
    0000000100020220 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _f_47
    0000000100020240 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _f_48
    00000001000202b0 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _f_49
    00000001000182a0 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _string_add
    000000010001a110 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _string_all_after
    000000010001a020 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _string_all_before
    000000010001a090 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _string_all_before_last
    0000000100019ef0 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _string_at
    0000000100018540 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _string_clone
    0000000100018aa0 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _string_contains
    0000000100018610 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _string_cstr
    0000000100019470 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _string_ends_with
    0000000100018b30 g       0f SECT   01 0000 [.text] _string_eq
While you can always mangle symbols, it is strange that i) every symbol is in public and ii) only some of them are mangled. Therefore I think the binary was probably produced by V's C transpiler, with some V standard library functions slapped on them.

(I had to rewrite the reply because I later realized that the binary was packed with UPX, I should have thoroughly inspected strings. Sorry for inconvenience.)

yeh, smoke and mirrors. Checking all the websites the author is maintaining, the focus is on Patreon support, much less on real development and commitment. I'm also intrigued why such projects (which does not have any code openly available behind) are so high rated. I assume because many github users does not take the effort to see behind.

I wonder what will happen on the day he's supposed to open-source this thing.

Delete everything and run away with the money? Kick down the can and delay source release once more? Apologies? ("but but it's pre-alpha software!")

The release was supposed to be today. Few hours ago was changed to 2 more days.

I wonder what you will say on June 22. Delete everything?

Is it faster than Y? https://github.com/SanderMertens/y

Yes, I was first interested in his stuff when he announced the perpetually "coming soon" Volt last year. Disregard the dates, deadlines, and promises for this project.

he's getting that much money because his project looks interesting, that is what most developpers want, so they are willing to take the risk

now other language designers need to learn from this project

keep your language simple, keep dependency list tiny, make clean syntax, focus on efficiency and small file size, and you win patrons

but people often then bloat their project, with uneeded features, that makes language harder to read, and harder for tooling to support it


i love Zig, i'm not using it, but i plan to once package manager is ready and vscode plugin with autocomplete and debugging is available

please make it happen, open bounties if you can't

This smells very much like a sockpuppet...

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