Ah, the classic "nothing to see here, keep moving on" argument. The lack of admission of a bad idea is itself a problem. What happens in a few years when Python 4 renders all Python 3 code incompatible?
Ah, the classic "they did it once so they'll definitely do it every single time from now on" argument.
Nick Coghlan, one of the Python core developers, said "Python 4.0 will merely be "the release that comes after Python 3.9"" , so I think your concerns are ill-based.
The people who are not "sore in the slightest" probably don't have to deal with large Python 2 codebases that rely on libraries that have no plan to move to Python 3. They are typically people who are writing code from scratch.
Rendering a huge codebase obsolete in order to upgrade print statements, import statements, and internationalization (i.e., unicode) was not a fair trade for many existing projects.
My stuff was not overly concerned with encodings, that part was luck. I moved to the logging module early, avoiding print problems, that was smart. Other changes were trivial mechanical fixes, that was easy.
For the unlucky, obtuse, or resource challenged, you've had an extra ten years of support. That's sufficient IMHO. It is time to suck it up and port, or retire the app. Constant bitching just gets old.
Meanwhile, I'm using a great language that will be relevant for years.
Why would they say that? They know breaking compatibility was a huge blunder, but they ignore the folks that it affected. Python 3 promoters are typically folks that don't have to deal with mess it created. If the Python foundation actually admitted to their mistake, it would engender far more confidence and credibility than pretending it does not exist.
> the mess they made with Python 3
What mess, exactly?
> what was an originally bad idea.
What makes Python 3 a "bad idea"?
Breaking compatibility with a huge code-base for incremental features.
People have had plenty of time to work on porting their code from 2.x to 3.x. Honestly, I think it's remarkable the devs kept maintaining 2.x as long as they did. I mean, look at Swift, where they had breaking changes year after year, and yet their user base has fairly exploded since the language's release not so long ago.
Just... get on with it, you know? Move to Python 3.x and be done with it. There's no particularly good reason to stick to 2.x forever.
I'm not particularly excited about a lot of other new features though.
I don't see a real reason for type annotations from my perspective (if I wanted typed I'd use a typed language, if I wanted types indicated I'd indicate in the doc strings).
Also f-strings which I haven't used it. They probably are better, but I'm barely getting used to `format` as opposed to `%s` (which admittedly `%s` does suck as I've said many time while counting items on the screen with a pencil).
I definitely get this perspective, but I actually use type annotations a lot. I do the vast majority of my Python development in PyCharm, and using type annotations greatly facilitates auto-complete features. It also helps me do some very simple debugging while writing, as the IDE will tell me "Hey! I don't think these types match up!", which is often enough to save me the headache of debugging.
Realistically, I just want Python but with a static type system. Which is why I'm implementing that as my own project haha.
> Also f-strings which I haven't used it.
Oh, dude, you gotta get on board with f-strings. They're soooo much simpler than the alternatives. Just skip learning `.format` and go straight to f-strings. I moved to f-strings when they first became available a few years ago and haven't looked back since.
Dataclasses are also great, IMO. I prefer algebraic data types in functional languages like Haskell or OCaml, but I think Python's dataclasses are a "good enough" solution for me to use in the meantime. I often define very simple data types and hate the default `__repr__` implementations and writing naive `__init__` functions. Dataclasses make all this much faster and, I think, more readable.
The unicode improvements in Python 3 are definitely a step in the right direction. But there were certainly good ways of improving unicode issues without breaking compatibility. Things like print are a joke, no one should care about its semantics.
> Just... get on with it, you know? Move to Python 3.x and be done with it.
Pretty easy to say. But try convincing product managers to take 5 devs off their current projects for 6 months to port a working production app to a newer programming language, with little concrete evidence that it will have a meaningful impact on the project (other than introducing bugs).
If you're interested it's worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oiw23yfqQy8
He was wrong. It is far harder than he anticipated, and it did not "need" to happen to grow the language.