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Here's the full Theo de Raadt quote from 2007 [1]:

"""> Virtualization seems to have a lot of security benefits.

You've been smoking something really mind altering, and I think you should share it.

x86 virtualization is about basically placing another nearly full kernel, full of new bugs, on top of a nasty x86 architecture which barely has correct page protection. Then running your operating system on the other side of this brand new pile of shit.

You are absolutely deluded, if not stupid, if you think that a worldwide collection of software engineers who can't write operating systems or applications without security holes, can then turn around and suddenly write virtualization layers without security holes.

You've seen something on the shelf, and it has all sorts of pretty colours, and you've bought it.

That's all x86 virtualization is. """

[1] https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=119318909016582




I feel like people with these sorts of hardline views on security, might just be so concerned with safety that their argument misses the whole opportunity cost of not being 100% safe in our usage of technology. If we needed to make sure everything was safe and perfectly secure, the world would have missed out on a lot of innovative software. Tough thing to contend with is that the security people are hardly ever wrong.


>hardline views on security

The only hardline view on security you'll encounter in the wild is "security is practical in our computational environments"[1]. Only half-joking here.

My reading of Theo's quote is merely "the combination of x86/IA32/AMD64 and virtualization gives little to no factual security benefits, and plenty of pitfals".

I don't see Theo as being a hardliner about security, just meticulous about good engineering practices - as per OpenBSD's usual standards - and facing the problems & risks as they are.

[1] examples: "Rust/Java gives you security", "shortlisting the only allowed actions by end-user application gives you security", "hardcore firewalls give you security", "virtualization gives you security", "advanced architectures like Burroughs' give you security".


Except that's objectively wrong - x86 virtualization breakouts have been extremely rare in practice, and fixable till recently.

The new class of attacks we now see target any type of shared code execution environment. OpenBSD is as vulnerable to this as anything else.


OpenBSD disables hyperthreading, doesn't it? That's a smart defense against at least one of today's attacks. Doesn't help if you're a VM guest, but does if you're the host.


there's a foreshadow-ng variant specifically for vms, and it's arguably the worst


> examples: "Rust/Java gives you security"

Reminds me a friend who worked on Javascript in the early days said it was the only thing that had any hope of providing minimal security at the time. Because Windows 3.1 and 95 +0x86 was a security trashfire.




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