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ADHD doesn't suck. Forty years of 9-5 jobs, mortgages, university degrees, and elementary school sucks when you're the type of person who can get diagnosed as ADHD. The world discriminates against people who don't have the temperament to fit in to its patterns of society.

We don't quite know how to pursue ἀρετή, virtue, eudemonia, excellence, whatever you want to call it in life because modern life was built for another kind of person and the animal life we left behind is far gone. Advice about "fixing" ourselves is mostly about finding effective ways to fit square pegs into round holes (like Adderall)






ADHD is objectively a bundle of true deficits, not just a set of traits society frowns on. Certainly these deficits weren't as much of a disadvantage in early human evolution, but if you can create metrics and show that people with ADHD perform worse at some generic tasks vs. average human beings-- and you can, we have-- this is not just a world that has been created that is inhospitable to them.

The ugly thing I've found, which accords with what you have said here, is that the best treatment for me is as many hours of sunshine as possible and several hours of vigorous exercise a day. (Thanks for teaching that, Marine Corps.)

But of course there are very few jobs with security, brain exercise, and mobility that give me this, and essentially no jobs that are compatible with it (that it is, where I could take this time off per day and still retain a job).

So of course I use medication and stick with jobs that drive me nuts, jobs that are terrible for me but pay well. I feel for the ADHD people who weren't gifted as decent a brain as mine, as if it weren't for that I doubt my employers would have been as indulgent of my other flaws from ADHD.


Read The Selfish Gene and https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2008/06/12/...

There is doubt that a set of behaviors which is so prevalent in the population is just an accident and a disease. Evolutionary pressures exist to optimize gene expression ratios in a population. Put differently, when a certain gene becomes rare in a population individuals with that gene have a significant advantage in life and reproduce more – when the same gene becomes over prevalent individuals with that gene have a significant disadvantage and reproduce less. There are traits which have pressure to be a certain proportion of a population.

ADHD or whatever else you may call it could very well be that. Ancient societies which had a small proportion of a certain kind of person thrived because their different behavior made them successful. It doesn't have to be a disease to not fit in to a certain society.


Nonsense. We have all kinds of highly prevalent maladaptive traits.

Evolution is blind.


Genetic mutations are blind. Natural selection is its walking stick.

We don’t live in ancient society. We live in our society.

Not to mention, not all traits that survive evolution are positive.


I guess you can either think the individual is deficient or society is deficient.

I can think society is deficient all I want (I do, but not for any lack of consideration for my ADD). It doesn’t change the fact that I need to work, and that to work, I need the ability to control my concentration. To do that, I take meds.

I can’t be anything but thrilled that society has given me a tool that gives me some control of my concentration.


These sorts of arguments tend to fail to result in a meeting of the minds.

Some people manage to make lifestyle changes and/or dietary changes and/or ditch people who were part of the problem and see substantial improvements in how they function and in quality of life. They try to spread the good news and people feel like they are being told they don't have a real problem or something and both sides get mad.

I used to see this a lot on parenting lists. People would suggest homeschooling because it had made their lives so much better. People who didn't want to consider homeschooling would feel judged rather than feeling like they were being given options and hope.

Cue everyone getting hot under the collar.


I do the same, but I'm not thrilled about it.

There is the person I am and the person I have to pretend to be.


I'm with you on that.

I cannot stand to be in corporate offices - it's a hell for me - but what choices do I have to earn a decent salary and feed my family? Not many :-(

I've just quit my 3rd job in five years because it got too much.


Aah, yes, that round hole called “work”. All the creativity, all the beauty of being a square peg is absolutely useless in the face of having to make money to survive.

PTSD. Constant stress. Having trouble just keeping promises to friends. Failing to even keep up a hobby. The inability to control your own concentration.

ADHD most definitely sucks.


What I'm trying to say is that there's nothing wrong with being what you are.

Instead there is something wrong with a society that discriminates against it (and living in that society sucks). Trying to fit in to it is what sucks and the solution is not being better at fitting in.


Wtf man. ADHD very nearly ended my marriage and my career. I think you are being very insensitive to the issues adhd people face.

I am not. I experience them and suffered the consequences.

ADHD people suffer because we don't meet expectations. Either there is something wrong with us or something wrong with the expectations and I choose the latter and want to help fix it. Saying "something is wrong with me" and wanting to fit in, for me, is the problem. Constantly not meeting expectations is the problem but I deny that not meeting them is the fault.

The world and I do not get along. I do not want to shape myself for the world, I want to shape the world for people like me. Fuck everyone who wants me to be different.

Saying ADHD is a disease is just as offensive to me as saying homosexuality is a disease to be cured.


Its not about other peoples expectations though, its also about our own.

Maybe you are okay with never finishing any project you start. I am not. It feels awful to me to start 10 Projects a month and never finishing any. It feels awful to me to be very sensitive to rejection, even though I realize the other person did not mean it like that.

> Saying ADHD is a disease is just as offensive to me as saying homosexuality is a disease to be cured.

You can not compare these like this. One is a sexual orientation, and the other is a inability to regulate yourself the way you want.


There's some massive irony in him telling off others for treating ADHD as a disease, all because he doesn't like others imposing things on him...

Inability to sustain concentration is not a temperament. It's a neurological impairement.

Adderall isn't going to do anything unless you are actually functioning suboptimally. It will, however, most certainly decrease your attentional/executive performance if you are at an optimal state. Look up the U-shaped response curve.


If you've got great executive function you're probably doing productive work instead of chasing black-market Adderall and reading a thread on How I Run a Company with ADHD...

ADHD medication is widely abused by people without ADHD.

And guess what is the most common diagnosis in users of illicit stimulants?

Just reading this thread should be sufficient.


ADHD does suck. It's not about fitting the patterns of society, it's about being able keep your shit together and get things done.

No matter how you live with ADHD there will always be distractions pulling you away from what you need to do. There will always be things you should remember but don't, things you should have done at a specific time but were distracted and forgot.

It doesn't matter what society you live in or what the cultural norms are, those of us with ADHD are lacking some basic functions that makes life harder. And it sucks.




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