The burden of proof is not on me to prove they aren't doing these things. The burden of proof is on those doing the accusing. As in the case of Huawei, there has not been one objective shred of proof. And no, I don't consider WaPo, NYT, and its ilk anywhere near objective journalism.
If the lack of proof is because the CCP is denying journalists access to Xinjiang, then how can there be any conclusive evidence?
Are they going to invade and bomb China to find the existence or non-existence of such evidence?
There has been plenty of proof. See my other comments. There has not been any proof that they don't exist. If you're making a positive claim you need to add sources. Otherwise you're getting into a celestial teapot argument. "Can't disprove it so it has to be true."
Look, I don’t know if you are arguing in good faith or you’re a person who shills for the Chinese government but I’ll assume the former.
The burden of proof, you say, is on those doing the accusing. Well, let’s see:
We have entire Uyghur villages with markets that are now no longer active. Many of the people are mysteriously gone.
We have tons of Uyghur families with relatives gone missing or reported arrested.
We have actual buildings that are being used as prisons for these Uyghurs.
We have testimony from people who were held in these camps. They say they saw many of those they knew.
We have video from inside these camps, and it’s pretty clear people are held there against their will.
NOW HERE IS THE KICKER:
It’s not US propaganda. The Chinese government has already been accused by the following groups:
Falun Dafa practitioners
Tibetan Buddhists
Christian Missionaries
and has “defended” itself for years with an army of disinfo agents, in some cases the “defenses” are extremely limited and lame. For example Tibetan buddhists are accused of being slaveholders. Falun Dafa is public enemy #1 because they “say being gay is bad” and “lead people to do self immolation”.
In reality, Falun Dafa is a peaceful religion that has long been persecuted, since 1999 when Jiang Xemin personally oversaw its destruction, including many of the same tactics, such as extrajudicial kidnappings and reeducation centers. The numbers were justas staggering.
So there are already multiple groups for 19 years that are being targeted by the CCP and we are supposed to think they are all making this up and the CCP isn’t targeting them?
It’s always the same story. Some small subgroup does some violence, or in the case of China, just merely shows some organization or protest (as Falun Dafa peacefully did against cartoons). That is enough for EVERY member of that group to now be targeted for indefinite detention, and worse.
Jews didn’t believe in the existence of Nazi concentration camps and no one could imagine a civilized country like Germany would do such a thing. Denying journalists access looks really bad.
Now to be fair, we are talking about internment and re-education camps, not concentration camps for Uyghurs. Probably something worse than what FDR did to the Japanese.
This feels like an overly broad and disingenuous interpretation of the word shilling. He provided an alternative view, bolstered with facts (and yes, went overboard with Nazism comparisons).
Thanks, reviewed. Sorry about the shilling comment. It was referencing to something the commenter themselves said, and others have also mentioned, given his recent comment history on several threads going back over a week:
Sorry, but I will not provide more information about myself than I have to. It doesn't matter anyhow since I will be accused of being a CCP _shill_ 50c poster anyway.
But I am confused about nationalistic flamewar as distinct from discussing the topic of the original post. Its veracity was actively questioned by the commenter in several comments, who asked for proof. Since the welfare of large numbers of people is at stake, it’s important to make sure whether this is happening or not. I am sure it would be the same conversation whether the nation was China, India, USA, and so on. If this is indeed not happening, that is very important also. In any case I thought I was directly addressing the topic. I am personally very far from nationalistic so I want to understand better how my comment comes across.
If a comment goes through the Uyghurs, Falun Gong and Tibet on its way to Nazis, I think it's safe to say that intellectual curiosity has fled, making the comment off topic for Hacker News.
Many vitally important topics are off topic for Hacker News. Most of them, in fact. This is a specific kind of website, for smaller, curious topics—the kind that are the first to drown in a political deluge.
If the lack of proof is because the CCP is denying journalists access to Xinjiang, then how can there be any conclusive evidence?
Are they going to invade and bomb China to find the existence or non-existence of such evidence?