Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
I forgot how to manage a server (ma.ttias.be)
166 points by Mojah 82 days ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 83 comments



The three pitfalls TFA mentions are the reason why I enforce the following rules around operations automation at my company:

1. Only that should be automated what can be done manually.

Before automating something, a sysadmin must be able to manually carry out the same operation. If they do not understand how it works, without using someone else's scripts, they are ineligible to administrate it.

2. What has been automated should always be doable manually.

After something has been automated, a new sysadmin should be able to read the automation code and re-do the steps manually. Maybe not at the full scale of repeating actions manually on every server, but enough that if the automation tools are irrecoverably lost they can be rebuilt from knowledge.

This also serves as a test for adequate documentation in the automation code. A new sysadmin should not have trouble figuring out why a certain thing is done a certain way in the scripts.

3. What happens, even when automated, should not be hidden from the sysadmin

Even in full auto, what's going on is always visible, so a sysadmin can jump in (i.e., go full-manual) at any step. This was one of our earliest rules, because we (me & my teammates) wanted to be able to debug without friction if anything went wrong. Also, it looks cool(er).

----

As a guiding principle behind how we automate operations, we assert that no amount of automation is replacement for a sysadmin's skills; it replaces only manual, error-prone effort.


So, nothing here prevents "forgetting how to manage a server" like the article describes. This is literally how automations generally works. You are doing something manual. You know how to do it manually. You automate it so you don't have to do it manually. You never do it manually again.

Until you have to 10 years later for whatever reason, and suddenly, you forget. And suddenly you have to look things up.


Nothing short of regularly repeated practice prevents "forgetting how to manage a server" like the article describes, but that's not the only pitfall TFA refers to.

Besides, hiding the how does contribute a tiny little bit towards the forgetting. Not much, but still. So we keep asciinema[1] recordings of the tool performing some of the important tasks, so they can serve as a quick look-up, while the code serves as a full-detailed look-up.

----

1: https://asciinema.org


Which is why I think there should still be some manually-managed servers remaining (possibly something like testing). What I didn't see mentioned is that when the automation fails for whatever reason, typically it is a five-alarm situation where minutes count. Having to search through man pages or stack exchange is wasting valuable time during one of the few situations where time is super-critical.


> Which is why I think there should still be some manually-managed servers remaining (possibly something like testing).

All operations during development are carried out manually, unless already supported by automation (and until, of course). When automating the new operations, a sysadmin must also conduct the steps manually, and also take care of considerations a developer might not have been aware of.

> What I didn't see mentioned is that when the automation fails for whatever reason, typically it is a five-alarm situation where minutes count.

Generally, this is easily-handled by redundancy, HA, and snapshot rollbacks. Of course anything that's a potential five-alarm situation has redundancy, right? :P


> What I didn't see mentioned is that when the automation fails for whatever reason, typically it is a five-alarm situation where minutes count.

No, that's not right. When automation fails, it's typically not in five-alarm situations. During five-alarm situations, knowing how to do things manually won't help, because if you could do them manually, the automation would already work.


Could you clarify who “we” are and what the tools you use are?


"We" are my teammates and I at a small company in Mumbai, India.

The tools we use for this are just: a programming language (Python, looking to add some Hy), a rich SSH library in the programming language, and some wrappers we wrote around simple tools and techs (e.g., rsync, tls, git, sqitch etc.).

The wrappers themselves are (currently) 1261 lines of code (according to sloccount).

We arrived at this after building our automation in Ansible, and then Salt, and learning from all the troubles and frictions we went through with either. They're both fine tools themselves, great for many tasks we'll never need to do, but some of their design decisions are at odds with what we needed.


I was going to chime in with something along the lines of:

...and this is why I like Ansible. easy to follow scripts that do all the leg-work, and is reproducible at the command line...

So I'd love to hear of some of the hurdles you have encountered. So I can avoid them in the future.

BTW, I do agree with you. I vastly prefer a 'CLI fall-back' level of control, and that's the only way to keep core skills relevant. Another example of this: Do it once manually, then use automation to replicate it 1000 times.


Interesting to hear Hy mentioned in a production context. What advantage do you expect to get, besides the cool factor?


> What advantage do you expect to get, besides the cool factor?

1. There are small bits of repetition in some of our steps that cannot be trivially abstracted in Python without sacrificing the simple aesthetic of imperative Python code, but they are perfect for macros.

2. One of the components involves quite a bit of interaction with the user, based on some data. The data itself changes infrequently, and the interaction code is generated from the data, but the generator isn't as pretty (due to the nature of the data) as it could be in a Lisp.

These are not existentially important to the tool, but we've had bugs because of both. Something about the ugliness makes people not look at it too closely. While the bugs were small and easily spotted by an attentive eye, it'd certainly be nicer if the likelihood of future creation of similar bugs could be reduced.


I like the principles that you outlined about balancing automation with repeatable human processes. But you lost me at writing your own config management system.

That seems at odds with rule number 3 because sysadmins must have fundamental understanding of the systems/network/OS, in-depth knowledge of your custom homegrown config manager and the language it's implemented in in order to debug.

Happy to hear it works for you though. Personally I'm willing to accept the shortcomings of an existing config management system like Ansible because it's a system that is already understood by a large percentage of sysadmins and the core program does not require any maintenance time/effort from my team.


This is precisely why I feared building our own for a while. So we persisted with Ansible (and then later with Salt), making our peace with the tool as we went along. Where a module was desired but did not exist, we built our own modules. Where a feature was desired, or desired differently, or a bug was found, we patched the tool (and upstreamed our patches). Where there seemed no way to do something the way we wanted to do, we worked around the tool, by calling out to other code, or asking to be called from other code.

Ultimately, it turned out:

1. We had already grown a custom configuration manager within the tool.

Both tools support many ways of doing the same thing, so we had to pick one way and constrain ourselves to it (e.g, master-minion vs. salt-ssh vs. masterless). This happened quite a bit. And, as usual, with enough use emerges a pattern. Plus, some ways simply did not exist and had to be built.

2. We had already learned large portions of the tool.

Ansible and Salt are simple tools when used for simple tasks. When using either for not-so-simple tasks, one invariably meets portions of their code/behaviour one doesn't expect to meet.

3. Any sysadmin we'd hire would need to know the configuration tool in-depth, anyway.

And, to our surprise, the vast majority knew only the basics, if that. Since we are, on principle, opposed to using something in an important capacity without understanding it well enough, and we needed to be certain any sysadmin we'd entrust with the responsibility did know their tool in-depth, we learned the tools in-depth, ourselves.

4. The tools are NOT simple.

When we'd learned Ansible and Salt, ourselves, we'd found they were actually quite a bit complex. Made sense, they had to take care of so many conditions and variations and different situations.

5. Any sysadmin we'd hire would need to know programming and a programming language.

We already had extensions in these tools, custom modules written in a real programming language. And, in this day and age, anyone with a responsibility as important as managing our production servers has to be able to program anyway.

----

Our current ops tool is only 1.2k (library) + 1.3k (config mgmt, sans static) LOC, the config mgmt is in plain Python, and is vastly simpler compared to knowing how Ansible or Salt work or how to write Ansible or Salt modules. The in-depth knowledge required is much smaller too (since we don't have to take care of all the many ways Ansible and Salt could be used or the platform differences Ansible and Salt need to worry about); just Python, SSH, SFTP, Rsync, Git, Sqitch, TLS, and the OS we have chosen, almost all of which one needs to know anyway.


I do this with my ansible deployments at work. I first spin up a test VM or env, then manually configure what I am going to do and get it working properly. Then once that is done, I just export my bash history/whatever config files I was working on and rewrite the pertinent bits in ansible.


I presumed that everybody did this.


Sounds like you got burned by poor design choices and instead of fixing the problem just mandated manual fallbacks instead.

Seems kinda weak.


> ... just mandated manual fallbacks instead

I'm sorry I wasn't clearer in my original comment. We do not have manual fallbacks. Everything is automated, with the capability of going full manual if ever necessary, at any point. The rules are simply to ensure that this ability can always be relied upon, even if never needed.

At the least, automating the unknown (the first pitfall mentioned in TFA) is a dangerous "unknown unknown" risk, and the first rule tries to protect against that. Then there's the risk of being burned by "Unknown automation" (the second pitfall mentioned in TFA), which is why we have the second rule. And finally, simply pressing a button and being told everything has been done for you, without being shown how (or worse, even that) it was done, is just boring (not to mention how this supports the third pitfall mentioned in TFA).


> The rules are simply to ensure that this ability can always be relied upon, even if never needed.

"Have a pilot in the cockpit who can fly the plane even if you trust your autopilot very much"


He didn't forget how to manage a web server. He knew his problems, how to look for solutions and how to apply them. That's an important skillset to. Especially since it enables one to keep up with change. You're not a professional sysadmin if you only mindlessly keep using the same configurations that were taught to you.


I found it a bit puzzling too. Does someone actually bother memorizing iptables syntax? Sure, if you use it daily for a long time, some of it will stick, but it seems completely pointless to waste time explicitly learning it.

I find it's better to save my brain power for learning things like what I need to take into account when configuring a database for example, or what variables affect network performance and what options I have for tuning, etc.

When I reach for tools to solve problems, the most I usually remember is "I can use X to solve this class of problems" and the how is available from the manual or with a Google search.


I'm sure someone does - I mean I have a friend whom I can hand a network diagram with specified cisco devices, and he can write cisco configs by hand, from memory - whereas me, I struggle to recall any of the regex I learned the last time I needed regex.


oh for real fuck regex. I need to just sit down for an hour and learn it, but I never do :( it's like Vim..


Eh, is there a point in memorizing it if you don't use it enough? The best way to learn something is repeated practice, so while I use regex enough to not need to look things up normally, I need a quick refresh anytime I need to do anything in matplotlib. There are people who are fluent with the library, but I don't have any more than basic syntax memorized since it's maybe once per year that I need it.

Although if you really do need to learn regex, I highly recommend https://regexone.com At least for me, the way it was taught Wes super-helpful in retaining the syntax knowledge.


I don't even remember when or why I learned it. Was it 10 years ago? 15? 20? Was it the xkcd.com/208 ? Was it curiosity? All I know is I've been using it ever since and solved so many problems with it and yes, there are places where finding the right expression becomes a problem in itself, but online regex testers largely solve that problem by letting you visually test your regex. (see rubular, pythex)

People have huge reservations about parsing non-regular languages (like xml) with regular expressions because xml could have an attribute with a string with another xml in it or something, but the whole point is moot because regex is mainly used for partial matches and the possibility of having a string inside the html that could match whatever you are looking for is minuscule and will probably show up in tests anyway.


if you design your regex for the XML you're using it on, this shouldnt be an issue - I use it frequently to mung config files as needed for work stuff - we use XML or XML like files for all sorts of stuff.


Things he feels bad about are strange. I only remember how to allow root with key auth because I searched for it yesterday. "Not remembering how" is not the problem at all. "Not knowing what" is.


Needing to remember is a sign of mismanagement, because if you have to remember it or look it up in third-party docs you might pick a different method than you did last time and create a subtle problem that might be time-consuming to debug. If anyone recalls the old days of having a handful of expensive servers that were configured at different times, often by different people, this was a common source of inconvenience and outages. The right way is to have it automated or at least recorded, for example in his presumably version-controlled config management system.

Of course this creates the pitfalls of automation, but I think it's unavoidable if you desire reliability and efficiency. Bypassing automation and typing in commands from memory or from man files, even if it's a one-off experiment with a fresh server, is going in the wrong direction to address the pitfalls of automation. If you're worried about not understanding the configuration commands your automation uses, a better way would be to call a meeting with some junior engineers (or a rubber duck) and talk through the configuration process line-by-line.


We are typing about converting multiple languages of expression (say, iptables rules and sshd config) into one (say, yaml or json) right? The whole point is to homogenize those languages into a single one so the configurations can be managed via a single program. (say chef, ansible)

And in the process of doing this, people stop remembering the original languages and you are now stuck in config language land where you still have to look up syntax on how to do things anyway.

So from your perspective, the problem is not "not remembering how" or "not knowing how" it is "not organising processes" am I getting it correct here?


> So from your perspective, the problem is not "not remembering how" or "not knowing how" it is "not organising processes" am I getting it correct here?

From my perspective, he doesn't have a problem at all. I would even dispute that he doesn't know the "how." If his servers are configured via chef, then chef is the how. Going deeper and looking at the OS-specific mechanisms chef uses is necessary for debugging when the behavior doesn't seem to match the documentation, just like if you're doing it by hand, iptables is the how, and the system calls or library calls it makes are what you'd look at if you couldn't understand its behavior from the man page and other docs.

In other words, you shouldn't worry if you're forgetting something because you never need to use it. When you need to use it, then you will learn it again and count it as an advantage that you did know it at some point in the past.


> I only remember how to allow root with key auth because I searched for it yesterday.

Well this is a little weird because the default sshd_config file tells you how to do it in the comments. So basically you need to be able to figure out where the sshd config file is.


I keep a text file with that type of stuff, because "I know what to do" but I cannot remember "how to do it" step by step. Automation is a great thing, but having a "this does this" text file is a nice thing.

At a previous job we had a wiki with all that stuff. I was quite nice.


The thing is, memorization itself should -not- be the primary skill of a sysadmin.

A sysadmin should know how to troubleshoot, how to use tools, and (more importantly) how to learn how to use the tools.

I don't want to discount the value of someone who still remembers how to handle seemingly arcane tasks like iptables. Experience has its weight in gold, and memory definitely contributes to its value, but there's more to it than that. It is the capacity and willingness to learn in any situation, however, where a talented sysadmin really shines.


I think it’s ok to forget syntax and the like as long as you still understand the concepts.

If this guy had to work on a server for a week without any config manager, I’m sure he’d be right back at home.

Opposed to a guy who has never touched iptables. That guy is in it for the long haul.

Maybe a better title is “I forgot the commands(and some directory locations) I use to manager a server.”


I don't know how chef or puppet or that sort of scripts look like but my administration scripts are littered with: #Here I do A because B didn't work and we need it for C. Or in fstab: # This is the disk I bought together with father. Or in crontab: # This syntax looks weird but otherwise it does not select the correct python env.

(I'm just a home-server admin ;) but that also means significant stuff only happens every 3-5 years at a new LTS or with some major problem, so notes to self are important.)

Such notes to self not only help when things go wrong, they also make for easy repetition of stuff years later. When I reinstall, I first back up the entire old root with all configs and thus all my notes (I could limit myself to /etc probably).


A useful tool for tracking system changes and comparing servers. http://sysconfcollect.sourceforge.net/

It's basically a collection of bash scripts that pull all the config files from your servers. You can view the results as text, or they have a server that helps with long term trending and comparison. For example, I used this to figure out which servers were using specific ssl certs when I renewed them.


I'm primarily a home admin, I keep all `history`, and have a little search script (grep really), that helps a lot.


Yeh, I guess the time gaps are so large that you have to. Still, I guess from time to time one also needs to update their orchestration scripts... Tbh, about the ssh, I know its in /etc, the I hit ssh, tab tab / tab tab, ah there is sshd_config, lets search for "root". I also don't really know by heart.


I would simply argue that traditional “system administration” is now the responsibility of development teams rather than ops teams (yeah yeah DevOps, but the “ops” part has changed).

Ops today is largely responsible for maintaining build / deploy pipelines, orchestration systems, and ensuring SLAs are met via SRE activities.

Most functioning DevOps teams I’ve worked with recently have added a more generalist role for a person who is a mile wide and a foot deep. It’s more of a hybrid sysadmin / development skill set ranging across base OS and package management, logging, scripting / automation, networking, access control, security, a dozen programming languages and whatever ITIL / EA platforms you have to interface with. These folks are a godsend in issue resolution as they know where the skeletons are buried. They also can pinpoint your top 5 tech debt issues of the top of your head.

The best version of this person also has some BA skills — they work really well as a demand management / intake person because they usually understand the end-to-end architecture — especially the code behind the integration interfaces — better than anyone on the team. They allow developers to focus on code, ops people to focus on production ops, and architects to focus at the right level of abstraction.


This seems no different from forgetting how to write assembly by hand because you've been using C for so long.


C is a standard, approved by standards bodies, and with multiple implementations on multiple platforms pledged to be supported for ages.

Someone's Puppet and Ansible scripts for some tasks are no comparison to C the standard, and do not come with the breadth, stability, or support of C.


What does that have to do with the analogy? Nobody compared C to Puppet.

The point was that it's common to forget about details on a different level of abstraction to the one you normally operate. Doesn't matter if it's an ANSI standard or a hand-rolled DSL for a very niche use case.


I meant, C replacing assembly in the skill sets of the vast majority of us is still okay because it's widely supported, unlike many — as you put it — hand-rolled DSLs replacing few standard ways of configuring things.


There was never any standard though. sshd.conf is one hand-rolled DSL, smb.conf is another, httpd.conf is another...


But there is only one sshd_config with the exact same manual across all the servers across all companies that use it (distro and version differences notwithstanding). If you know what the PasswordAuthentication option in sshd_config means at one company, you know what it means at any other company, unlike each one's way of maintaining the file.


exactly. and that is as valid :)


I’m not a sysadmin, but I’m remarkably bad at remembering boring things I don’t care about. I generally forget things like how to create systemd units or sshd config options a couple minutes after completing the task.

I don’t think it’s a big problem nowadays. As long as you know how to quickly get the information you need, it’s probably not that much more inefficient.


Agreed.

90% of stuff I don't know off the top of my head I do like this:

1) connect to a server/repository which already uses that in some form

2) copy/paste relevant parts.

3) add new parts by using existing parts as a reference

4) fill in holes with man page/docs/internet search engine

If I had to start from scratch I'd probably fail the basic syntax with pretty much anything.

The important thing is to know that you forgot implementation details, but know where to look them up.

https://www.xkcd.com/1168/


I've started notice that things I know sometimes become out of date. The search can then confirm old ways or inform new ways of doing the thing.


"If you cannot already do the machine’s job by hand, the machine will outwit you."

Raney Nelson http://www.daedtoolworks.com/lounge-against-the-machine-daed...


Most of us have forgotten how to write machine level code too


True, maybe that's the right comparison to make.

Part of me feels that installing software or running basic configs should still be "collective knowledge" for a sysadmin, and I'm even forgetting how to do that.


Fortunately writing home brew for old consoles keeps my wits up about this.


To be clear, you mean home brew as in beer, not the package manager, correct?


S/He means writing his/her own video games/software for old consoles [1]

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrew_(video_games)


I wonder if it is something to do with puppet. I've never used it (I wrote my own thingy before puppet existed), but I gather puppet comes with a whole pile of configuration thingies out of the box. For example, maybe you don't have to know how edit the sudoer's file to prevent password prompting because puppet has a puppet way of doing it that edits the config file for you. I could well imagine if you did things by editing puppet files for a few years you might forget the underlying config file syntax, or even what config file ends up being edited.

If that's true he'll pick it up soon enough. The muscle memory will start flowing again.

If he wants something to panic over try moving to k8s. If effectively includes a puppet like thingy done a completely different way, and worse it builds a very different computing model. Use that for 10 years, then try to re-adjust your thinking back to a single server model that you maintain by editing config files and you will be in for a rough ride.


It could be handy to write down some of this stuff you don't do often in a big org file (or plain text) for later reference. I find that some commands for irssi (tui irc client) are hard to remember, so I started writing a local irssiguide.txt that I look at or add to sometimes. I tend to add a new server or channel to autojoin right away, so then if I have a new thing to add 6 months later I can't recall the exact syntax. I've been meaning to follow my own advice in other areas. Taking notes as you learn things so that you can relearn them later, or optionally show them to a friend, seems very useful. I also sometimes get stuck on something and end up giving up and forgetting what the problem was, meaning coming back to it later is that much harder. I'd like to get into the habit of writing down problems I have as well. e.g. figuring out how to mount the storage of an android phone easily


I rarely try and remember much more than there being a thing that does a thing, and then skim the reference to get the syntax correct when I need it. Things go in if I am using them regularly and go away again when I don't and I don't worry about it or think that I have forgotten how to do a thing. I also know that learning something again when it has disappeared almost completely, often leads to a deeper understanding of the thing, possibly because new connections have to be made before what is left of the original network gets lit up again, so even complete bewilderment at something I used to do regularly doesn't faze me all that much, I just get back on it in the knowledge that I will discover things I missed the first time round.


this is why I don't focus on remembering how to do stuff

I focus on how to quickly learn (or re-learn) how to do it.


What it used to mean to say someone was good at math was that they were very good at quickly solving complicated math in their head. One documentary I saw claimed that this is what they looked for at Oxford and Cambridge for their math programs.

As soon as the calculator was invented (okay, and made cheap and portable), this skill was useless. Then you had to set up problems so that the calculator could solve them. (Similarly with the computer).

This is a natural and good progression. All the best practices should be learned and mastered by people building the tool, and you should just be proficient at the tool.


This is an honest question for sysadmins. What do you do if you go to a company that doesn't have Puppet or Chef? What do you say in an interview?


"I can improve the server architecture by automating a lot of the common maintenance tasks with Puppet or Chef."


He obviously still knows how to answer most questions, as interviewers don't typically ask to type out the exact commands


"what is your deployment strategy?" Puppet and chef are just tools. There are good reasons to use them and good reasons not to. Step 1: don't assume that the company didn't look at the situation and decide they do not want to use cfmgmt. (Even if, sadly, usually they just didn't think of it at all...)


I've forgotten how to write assembly, but that doesn't mean I can't make the computer do the same things with higher order abstractions.


Right. But while I think the important point is about abstractions, it's still valuable to understand-about (even if not "remember in detail how to manipulate") the next lower level abstraction.

Partly this is to fix things when the higher abstraction breaks.

But TFA's point is to manipulate the system without bringing in the cost of the higher abstraction.


Yesterday, I realized I'd forgotten how to count in binary or hex.

I was reminded of that by the realization that I'd forgotten how to manually convert between binary and hexadecimal strings in C.

I'm still scared.

But, above all, I want to stop doing things in C.


I've gone through similar scenarios... you hire employees with fantastic experience which includes config management. Everything is optimal until low level problems occur. A good example of this is software raid failing, and the best playbook/manifest writer doesn't know where to begin(without google).

The solution is really really simple. Don't hire people without an RHCE, or that haven't had one in the recent past. Feel free to substitute the RHCE for a comparable certification, which are few and far between.


RHCEs, etc. don't strike me as adequate signaling. I've worked with RHCEs that didn't have much in the way of RHEL administrative chops. I've worked with people without them (and don't have one myself) who have solid downstack and upstack proficiency.

This is one that I genuinely don't know how to solve; I do not know how you evaluate somebody whose skillset you don't fully understand. But certifications aren't the answer.


>> I've worked with RHCEs that didn't have much in the way of RHEL administrative chops

I don't understand how this is possible. Did you validate their RHCE at redhat.com? It's not a multiple choice test, it's real systems(not connected to the internet, no google for you), and you don't pass if you can't configure/repair them and the services required. The requirements aren't toy examples, they tend to be complicated and involving things you want to avoid due to difficulty. Most people(>50%) fail the exam, according to redhat's statistics.


I didn't; I didn't hire them. Maybe they were lying. I sorta doubt it--the two I'm thinking about seemed like decent people, just in over their heads. But it's possible.


Why not asking them during the interview process?

Have them "drive" you through the resolution of one of the issues that you expect could happen. See how they behave and what they try - they may not necessarily have the complete correct answer, but you will see if they know where to look, the basic concepts, and so on.

I've interviewed people capable of writing ansible scripts, but with no real ability to dive into issues and fix them and/or investigate what's broken. Many would not even tell me "we could just provision a new VM to replace the one that went down, right?"...


I mean--that's totally fair. And those are the sorts of conversations I have.

Because I'm hiring somebody to do something I know well--this is my bailiwick! In that post, I was trying to approach it from the perspective of someone who...isn't...a former devops consultant and miles deep in this stuff. ;)


Strange how by "server" author means virtual a Droplet in Digital Ocean, not an actual metal server.


I'm not entirely sure why that's strange. It's been a common term for an instance or VM for as long as I can remember.


> I had to Google the correct SSH config syntax to allow root logins, but only via public keys. I had to Google for iptables rule syntax and using ufw to manage them. I forgot where I had to place the configs for supervisor for running jobs, let alone how to write the config.

Are these actually things sysadmins know without googling or peeking into manpages?


Tools are good and useful, but don't forget the fundamentals.


NixOS is much saner than your usual run of the mill distros.


Seems a good use case for going serverless (I know about vendor lock in).


Serverless email servers! Serverless DNS servers! Serverless web servers!

I believe you should see a problem there.


Serverless is a misnomer for this kind of thing; it's "-as-a-service" not long ago. Nobody manages their own email or DNS servers anymore. Webservers, maybe, but that too can be handled by a few hundred different services depending on what is needed.


> Nobody manages their own email or DNS servers anymore

Thankfully you are quite wrong there; lots of us keep running the services that were designed to be decentralized.


Agree, I call them and think of them as Lambda servers.


> I had to Google...

This is how I do it too, except replace Google with DuckDuckGo.




Registration is open for Startup School 2019. Classes start July 22nd.

Guidelines | FAQ | Support | API | Security | Lists | Bookmarklet | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: