I was part of the engineering team of the Japanese team Hakuto of the Google Lunar XPRIZE. I always wondered how it would feel to be in the control room at this time, but our launch deal fell through. I can understand what the SpaceIL engineers are going through right now.
Congratulations to all the SpaceIL team for reaching this far, your work has been impressive. Keep trying and you will make it!
The cool thing about it was that was a pet project of a few scientists doing it just because it was cool rather than a proper national project
Regardless knowledge transfer isn't limited to either of those.
Like getting a silver medal at the Olympics. Yes, sad. But man!
It's perfectly reasonable to show the differences in two achievements, and doing so doesn't imply the derision of either.
In any case, I love that so many people around the world are able to participate in the exploration of our sky, and will celebrate every single step that makes it easier and cheaper, regardless of where the people making it happen happen to live.
Don't get me wrong, good on them for doing this, but let's not pretend like this happened in a bubble away from anyone else.
OP was pointing out how far they got despite being such a small nation, I'm just saying that's not an accurate statement whatsoever based on what actually happened.
Contract "here is some money to meet these contractual requirements".
I think you're confusing SpaceX with United Launch Alliance (ULA), who's Annual Capability Payment of $1 billion per year was given to them literally so they can keep the lights on. A lot of congressmen were seeing red when ULA decided to not even bother with a bid for the most recent GPS launches (which SpaceX cleaned house with overall) where SpaceX required zero subsidy and managed to do it cheaper in every way.
What's your point? NASA got a bunch of help from Nazi scientists.
Pointing out the population relative to the US/China is the "Tony Stark built this in a cave from spare parts" argument, but that's not really what happened here. It's more "Tony Stark built this from a schematic given to him by Reed Richards and using parts gifted from Hank Pym" (to stretch my Marvel analogy as far as possible). It's still impressive, but that statement doesn't provide clarification to the accomplishment's significance.
TL;dr- "Israel did a cool thing, and they had lots of international help doing it" is the accurate statement on what happened.
That sort of argument isn't very honest or reasonable. Would you believe it would make any sense to point out the centuries of R&D work and countless money spent on it prior to the creation of the US space program to insinuate that the US freeloaded its way into one of mankind's most important achievements?
Because they are our only truly stable ally in that extremely chaotic, highly strategic region.
But what does Israel do for the US? It's not very clear to me. The only thing I know of is intelligence. Is that enough? I think even Saudi Arabia provides much more support: military bases, etc.
It came tantalizingly close to working, though, and I have high hopes for future attempts. Per aspera ad astra.
I find it a bit irritating to be that cocky when it comes to space technology. Better luck next time!
The problem isn't that people are demanding accurate dates for launches and then getting mad he wasn't exactly correct, the problem is that he is underestimating launch times significantly and stating them publicly with confidence.
Beresheet: (v) To fail dramatically after overwhelming confidence
(The prefix "ב" meaning "in", the root "ראש" meaning "head" --used both for the part of the body, and to mean "starting" or "principal"--and the suffux "ית" being the a type of feminine suffix)
They are the 4th country to reach the Moon (albeit at 1km/s).
Japan, ESA, India, and SpaceIL all have crashed on the moon (counting as reached).
Only if your pride is traveling at less than 11.2 km/s.
Celebrating space mission failures for any reason is a terrible look.
This is a cultural difference, try to take a step back from your own preconceived cultural norms. What's considered confidence in Israel would qualify as hubris in American culture - there's much less value placed on being humble or soft-spoken in Israeli culture. I make no judgements about if this is better/worse but I certainly wouldn't dream of relishing in their failure even if I perceived them as "cocky".
If anything I feel I have to watch my words on HN, compared to when I speak with people living around me or people at places I've lived before.
HN also feels extremely safe compared to certain other places I've visited online.
Yes, until you piss off too many people around you with your excessive confidence- which includes a sense of superiority and the feeling of being immune from the consequences of evil or hostile actions.
And if you made everybody around you an enemy rather than a friend, sooner or later you'll pay the consequences.
And ironaically, as you suggest, when one country wins, we in fact all win.
I would much rather we fight to push back the boundaries of space than to hurl actual bombs at each other.
But still, did you all miss the winking emoji right there following the text?
And we have a few examples of internationalism already like the ISS. And presumably any Mars mission will have to be international. Which is another one of the reasons such projects is worth while.
This is Israel's project. They had assistance from other organizations/countries, but they're not doing this to better North Korea in any real way and you shouldn't hold North Korean responsible for their failure.
That doesn't mean it's impossible, just that we need something to change the market, not fairy tales about international cooperation. Elon Musk's project to massively decrease the cost of space access is a step in the right direction. I don't think we'd ever get to widespread space activity if we depend on massive spending by national governments to do it.
Isn't that anathema to the current isolationist, nationalist bent a lot of the worlds biggest and baddest powers people seem to be adopting?
My point is that I would be very much surprised to see it approved, as it appears to be the people themselves who have become against these sorts of global pushes.
Yes, it should be the goal, I was raised on Star Trek, I'm just saying that doesn't seem likely.
Definitely a terrible time to have an engine failure :/
Telemetry came back at 10k. For the next minute and a half there was uncertainty about the main engine even though telemetry clearly showed vertical speed going up fast. More then a minute later, at 5k a reset request was made.
Edit2: A minute goes by and at about 500m controller asked if there is a confirmation to send rest to JPL, another, announced that engine is on. Crash happens at that moment. 149m, 134.3ms vertical.
It seems like the landing program would want to have a feature in place that automatically restarted the engine in a situation like this.
I can't tell from that if normally an engine outage would automatically restart but didn't or if the condition would always require manual intervention. I hope we get more details soon. The moon seems close enough (a few seconds), but accidents always happen closest to your destination. More automation is more complexity but it will be valuable for longer trips.
Have any of these moon landings been done at night where people have been able to watch it happening through a telescope? Or are things so small at the moon's distance that there'd be nothing to see?
Actual landers tend to try to land during lunar day, to take advantage of the warmer temperatures and to have sunlight to recharge batteries.
There are lunar retroreflectors about a metre across  that are detectable with optical equipment, for some definition of optical. But to leave a mark that can be seen from earth - to leave your tag, or an X, or a crude drawing of a penis and testes - surely that's an urge as old as art itself.
Or with more time to recover from the outage before landing. If it happens within the last minute (wild estimation) then you have little time to recover the lost velocity.
Obviously they restarted it after this failure so it was not a complete breakdown of the engine.
I was on a plane that had one engine fail. It was fine.
7th country to get that far in space, 4th to attempt to land, those are enormous achievements for a country that's has 2/3rds the population of New York (city, not state) and doesn't have a hundred billion dollars to burn in a dick-measuring contest. They'll launch another one and land next time.
If Israel knows anything, it's how to persevere.
I would say the opposite. Not specifically just in reference to this mission but in general. They now have a lot of experience and data to use going forward for "not much" expense. A lot of extremely expensive missions were lost because they didn't have the opportunity to iterate.
If I were to make a guess extrapolation to air-flight we're probably still roughly in the 1940s. Private space flight is making things more standard and long-run production instead of one-offs; but we aren't there yet and haven't found workhorse designs that are both reliable and cheap. Experiments like this will hopefully help us get there.
Aircraft production was fully industrial going into the 40s.
hats off to SpaceIL! I look forward to following their next go at it.
Not true, only 3/4 of it. And it's not an explanation, otherwise they could give the same aid to any other country, but they don't.
"Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II."
Budget for this lunar mission is probably extremely small compared to military spendings.
So the US view of democracy is apartheid? Interesting.
I haven't been able to find what it would have done had it landed correctly.
I guess it had a few scientific instruments and a "time-capsule" of sorts. Wikipedia editors are fast, they already have the crash on there.
The spacecraft carried a "time capsule" created by the Arch Mission Foundation, containing over 30 million pages of analog and digital data, including a full copy of the English-language Wikipedia, the Wearable Rosetta disc, the PanLex database, a Nano Bible (complete Bible in Hebrew), children's drawings, a children's book inspired by the space launch, memoirs of a Holocaust survivor, Israel's national anthem (Hatikvah), the Israeli flag, and a copy of the Israeli Declaration of Independence.
Its scientific payload included a magnetometer supplied by the Israeli Weizmann Institute of Science to measure the local magnetic field, and a laser retroreflector array supplied by NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center to enable precise measurements of the Earth–Moon distance.
As an aside, the youtube video series on the original Apollo launch computer it pretty neat. (The core memory on those old machines was nuts..)
But this one was going slower.