> there are middlemen and your slaims are ridiculous fantasy
this is an assertion from your previous message.
> Miners are the middlemen
this is an elaboration for your assertion, that was missing from your previous message.
you don't have to lie, it's fine if you admit your mistake and fix it.
> Miners are the middlemen, complete with fees
this is false. middlemen have control over the process. miners don't control who can transact with whom and transaction fees are still orders of magnitude lower than the actual flat block reward. moreover - miners don't set the fees either, market does. miners only participate in a competitive environment of providing proof of work and getting paid for it. they are "contractors", not middlemen.
> Bitcoin is not pure energy any more than any other electronic currency. Proof of work is energy already used, not somehow carried in a bitcoin.
bitcoin is not pure energy and i never claimed it was. if you go back and try to read carefully you'll see that i was talking about monetary value and security. bitcoin is just a record in a ledger and not different in t hat regard from thousands other cryptocurrencies. what's different is the difficulty number of every block in the bitcoin blockchain - that's where security comes from, that's how hard it is to modify history and that is where big chunk of bitcoin's value is coming from.
> Proof of work is energy already used, not somehow carried in a bitcoin.
again, you're misunderstanding what i'm saying. you can't convert bitcoin back into energy that was used to create the blockchain, however you do have to spend equivalent amount of energy for each block to be able to mutate the history. that's what i mean when i say that bitcoin is security of money backed by pure energy.
> this is an elaboration for your assertion, that was missing from your previous message.
Not really. Who else was it going to be, it's not like I'm the first to point this out.
> miners don't control who can transact with whom
Of course they do. It's up to them which transactions to include in a block.
> transaction fees are still orders of magnitude lower than the actual flat block reward
People who like bitcoin like to talk about inflation and QE as theft from their pockets. The block reward is a fee extracted from the ecosystem in the same way.
> bitcoin is not pure energy and i never claimed it was
"it's the first time in history we've been able to express and implement monetary value and security thereof in terms of pure energy"
So yeah, you did, you said it was monetary value expressed as pure energy, which is meaningless. It's not a measure of joules, and it's not the hashing which gives it value. Quite the opposite - the speculative value is what attracts the hashpower.
> It's up to them which transactions to include in a block.
and "them" is not a single entity or even small number of entities. miners compete for block rewards and every transaction with a fee contributes to the profit - whatever malicious miners choose to leave out will be included by non-malicious miners making them more profitable.
calling miners middlemen when they would only have actual control over which transactions appear on the chain if majority of miners colluded (destroying the value proposition of bitcoin in the process) is very disingenuous.
> talk about inflation and QE as theft from their pockets. The block reward is a fee extracted from the ecosystem in the same way.
i don't even... QE and other fiscal measures are short term decisions made by bunch of powerful humans behind closed doors. Bitcoin emission schedule was decided ten years ago and has virtually zero chance of being changed without destroying the project and it's value. you must be trolling right now if you say you don't see the difference.
as for why is there bitcoin emission schedule at all - because that's probably the most fair process of distributing bitcoin.
> So yeah, you did, you said it was monetary value expressed as pure energy, which is meaningless
either you start reading and quoting me correctly or this discussion is over, i'm done with your manipulative tactics.
I'm not sure why you'd make such a trivially disprovable claim, they quoted you word for word, it's very easy to prove that with a quick browser text search...
this is an assertion from your previous message.
> Miners are the middlemen
this is an elaboration for your assertion, that was missing from your previous message.
you don't have to lie, it's fine if you admit your mistake and fix it.
> Miners are the middlemen, complete with fees
this is false. middlemen have control over the process. miners don't control who can transact with whom and transaction fees are still orders of magnitude lower than the actual flat block reward. moreover - miners don't set the fees either, market does. miners only participate in a competitive environment of providing proof of work and getting paid for it. they are "contractors", not middlemen.
> Bitcoin is not pure energy any more than any other electronic currency. Proof of work is energy already used, not somehow carried in a bitcoin.
bitcoin is not pure energy and i never claimed it was. if you go back and try to read carefully you'll see that i was talking about monetary value and security. bitcoin is just a record in a ledger and not different in t hat regard from thousands other cryptocurrencies. what's different is the difficulty number of every block in the bitcoin blockchain - that's where security comes from, that's how hard it is to modify history and that is where big chunk of bitcoin's value is coming from.
> Proof of work is energy already used, not somehow carried in a bitcoin.
again, you're misunderstanding what i'm saying. you can't convert bitcoin back into energy that was used to create the blockchain, however you do have to spend equivalent amount of energy for each block to be able to mutate the history. that's what i mean when i say that bitcoin is security of money backed by pure energy.