All that being said, I'm bouncing to Berlin for a higher salary and a roughly 30 percent drop in cost of living compared to Paris.
Check out jobbatical.com
Amsterdam is a hot scene, Berlin is hot and affordable, dont come to Paris unless you really speak French and or have deep Fintech/banking tech background.
My wife and I went from California to Ireland, then back to California for a year, and when she used up her whole 1 week of vacation and we realized even in tech we'd never afford a house where our kids could walk to a decent school, we moved back to Ireland.
I'd make 2-3x as much in the US, but I wouldn't be happy.
Also - "TRUE vacation " - WHAT THE FUCK is up with Americans who think it's appropriate to bug people about work on vacation. Or to have "unlimited" vacation policies and act surprised when someone wants to take what would be _the legal minimum_ in a lot of other countries. And sticking people on pagerduty half their goddamn lives. Seriously, fuck right off to hell.
1) Part of the idea is to make work more pleasant, not endure a bunch of misery and then retire happily.
2) I'm alive now. Tomorrow, I might not be. The idea that we should be miserable in the present for a happy future doesn't sit well with me (I've already used up 35 of my years of life!). Around the time I hit 30 I was startled how friends started dying. Not loads, of course, but the rate definitely is creeping up. The mom (and baby) who died of eclampsia really struck home and reminded me that you do not save the best for last. Tomorrow Is Not Guaranteed.
3) Life is a series of closing doors, so they say, and there are huge chunks of life where picking up and moving to another country is completely impractical.
Got a husband/wife with a career already going? Hope you're ready to throw out their career or get divorced.
Got a kid in a school they like? Kiss that goodbye.
Already in a career and think sticking around a couple years will push you further up the ladder? Better just wait a while longer, than longer still, and longer still...
Also I graduated college in 2008 and it was a bloodbath. I couldn't get interviewed for ages, and I get plenty of interest now. For any young'uns it's hard to convey just how different (and awful) it can be. And I had it pretty good - at least I was employed. BUT it meant that I wasn't throwing away a career to move to Europe - I had a pretty mediocre job anyway. In a sense, I should be grateful I had the freedom to know I wasn't really losing much by leaving.
I never recommended spending your entire career living someplace miserable. It doesn't take very long to save up a nice amount of cash if you're working in a tech job.
I was offered 35k for a junior role, but declined it as that seemed pretty low (especially taking into account housing difficulties there).
Also there are interesting startups in Paris outside of fintech, like Alan (where I work), Algolia, and Datadog. Airbnb, Facebook and Google have offices here as well I believe.
I've never been to Berlin, so I can't really compare, but I really enjoy living in Paris so far. I certainly like Paris more than San Francisco.
I wrote a blog post about my move a few weeks ago: https://medium.com/@kkwteh/why-i-moved-from-san-francisco-to...
My first job offer upon arriving in France was 110k at Thales as a lead DevOps Sngineer. Red Hat EMEA offered me 100k as a solitions architect.
I ended up taking a lower offer but in a much more relaxed environmemt at Publicis Groupe in the 11eme. If you aren't hitting the pavement doing inteviews and keeping yourself up to date, and be willing to jump from time to time, you will miss out on higher salaries.
France is slowly realising they have to match a bit more with the rest of the world.
From my personal experience in game-dev in Berlin, the highest earning coding individual-contributor (so not a manager) salary I ever saw was 70-something €k per year (and it is quite rare to go above €65k even as a very senior programmer).
You will literally have to be C-level at a large and succesful company to earn €120k+ as far as I can tell (in this sector).
I was apparently pretty well paid at my last job (Game Dev) at 68k EUR a year.
Also, note that a lot of Europeans quote salary after tax, which can make a big difference.
you're competing with wide-eyed 23 year olds
That's my impression as well, of the job market in Berlin as dev contributor in many industries. There exists just rock solid ceiling at 70k EUR and that's it. No idea about stricte managerial roles but these are oftentimes reserved to native Germans and the competition is beyond fierce so forget about it (unless you are Abmahnung, Betriebsrat, and Arbeitsrecht virtuoso).
However sometimes there seem to be like parallel realities when it comes to salary.
I can easily understand a preference regarding culture and ease of transit, however it's hard to believe that 20 subsidized lunches per month is a perk worthy of losing a million plus dollars per decade over.
Then I learned he never worked less than 10 hours a day, usually more like 12, and a lot of weekends etc. Effectively he worked 1.5x a normal job here. Taking his salary and dividing by 1.5 I got something which was quite mediocre.
Peace is it's own reward.
While the rest is all true and great, this one isn't true in western Europe for a good chunk of the year. Remember, Europe is at a higher latitude than the US, so the days are really short in the wintertime. Expect it to get dark by 4pm or so.
That seems insanely high by European standards. That is well above what I would expect even a CTO to make.
This includes the new prélèvement à la source, so in theory I shouldn't owe additional taxes next year.
I personally calculate every mandatory contribution that comes off my gross salary as "taxes" even though many people will disagree. IMHO, it's mandatory, it comes off the top, so it's "taxes"
I wouldn't consider 35% of my gross salary as being overly high, considering the excellent quality of life here. I cannot comment on how this compares to US taxes since I've never lived or worked there.
The taxes/quality of life I experience in Paris is similar to what I had living in Germany.
Given that we have so much vacation here, rent is reasonable, and infrastructure is very good (I can be in Brussels in 2 hours with the TGV) it's unlikely I'll ever move back to Canada.
You mean (insofar as this is a trick), just like the US does?
It certainly depends on your income?
95k is about 50k after taxes and other no opt-out insurances and social taxes. Most EU countries have VAT 19-24%.
I usually compare USA with Western Europe using factor 2 (3 for Eastern Europe). So, if you get $150k in USA, you have to get €50k in Budapest to have similar quality of life.
As a fellow developer in Berlin, that sounds pretty outrageous! I'm making half of that.
I am straight out of ETH Zurich so my experience is negligible.
And not only in terms of earning - look for example at benefits you get for having kids (amount of parental leave, cost of kindergarten, etc).
It’s like a weird capitalist Enklave in the middle of Europe. I’ll bet a lot of people thought of having kids in Germany or Austria and moving to Switzerland after a few years of taking advantage of generous benefits for having young kids in the former.
250k for a software engineer is quite a lot in Geneva, and even Switzerland. Only Google regularly pays that much after a few years of experience.
I know top 1% students from ETHZ and EPFL who then did PhDs and postdocs under world class professors. They'll probably never get close to 250k if they stay in Switzerland. Even after 20 years on the job.
6 weeks of paid vacation, great public transit, and affordable housing all mean I'm never going back to the states. If your considering moving to Europe, I'd highly recommend it. Salary isn't everything in life.
Happy to answer any questions
The public transportation was also awful. TTC is a joke. I also wasn't a big fan of the culture of the city. Lots of finance people and I also feel a lot of the hyper competitive status focused culture of the states has seeped in to Toronto.
I also have much more flexibility and vacation with my current job. 6 weeks vs 4 plus I can work remotely now though this is more of a function of the company I work for
Average rent is $2100. Average house price $750,000.
I've got the visa, I feel like the requirements for this visa should mention that putting together the application process was a shitload of work because it goes to a panel of industry people to be assesed, so is much, much harder to get than a lot of the other ones which are more criteria based. Really, if you want it, you need to convince the panelists that you'll add value to UK tech somehow, beyond just being an employee.
Also, don't be like this guy if you don't get it...https://www.technation.sucks/
Man, somebody's got an axe to grind...
I'm also very confident there's only 400 a year. 2000 is the total for all the Tier 1 (Exceptional Talent) visas, across all industries and disciplines - so engineering, art, music, etc etc.
Details here: https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-exceptional-talent
One thing re funding I wish I understood before I moved here: Europe has no favoured state laws which prevent governments from unilaterally propping up local companies, startups are no exception. However, there is a "no one cares" de minimus limit of 200k euros. Any published funding accompanying a startup visa will come out of this amount, and in practice there are many other schemes to receive money up until the 200k limit. Beyond that you start applying for European wide funding schemes. I'd choose your destination on other factors, since all state money is subject to the same limit.
- Do you have an opinion on the Copenhagen tech scene? Companies, talent, access to funding etc.
- How've you found integrating with the Danish culture?
- Any suggestions for how to build your network there?
I had a friend from Spain who struggled for almost a year with socializing with us cold Scandinavians. That is, until she joined a Kendo club (is that what it is called? The bamboo sword thing). By the end of her two years here she didn't want to leave.
If you've worked in SF or NY I'd say you're almost guaranteed acceptance. Otherwise I've heard it's pretty hard to get, and it will come down to your credentials and business.
It's not irrelevant to me - I depend on doctors and nurses who are recruited on that system to give just a single concrete example, and what's more I'm responsible for the system via my representative as a voter.
I do think it's pretty neat that just getting into an accelerator in the UK can also help with your visa process (endorsements for entrepreneur visa)
The "hostile environment" is all about illegal immigration and as such is certainly not about pointlessly complicated paperwork for people who are legal immigrants. It says absolutely everything about the extremist position that some people have reached that you appear to be treating illegal and legal immigration as exactly the same, and then describe a government that tries to enforce its own immigration rules as "far right nationalist". If that's the case then practically every country in the world is "far right nationalist", which would make it a meaningless designation. Exactly what it's become!
For example see: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/reality-che...
Although we're currently having great fun (/s) at the lower end of the German rental market due to all these new young people working here and of course wanting to live somewhere as well.
Even Nigel Farage is against a cap on immigration and for a points system for skilled immigration!
That said, I'm not sure it really is as simple as skilled immigrants being welcome: there's plenty of people who'd rather we didn't have so many non-Western (culturally!) immigrants regardless of skill.
None of this is in any way true; I've known several people personally who've had difficult and expensive fights with the Home Office, and every indication has been that they're looking to reduce absolute numbers at any cost, including egregiously unfair processes.
For one person, their tax accountant made an error in filing to the Inland Revenue. That resulted in a fight that cost 6 months, £12k legal fees, and was barred from working or renting property during that time.
Nor is it appropriate to characterise any government contemplating no deal Brexit as "centrist".
There are some gotchas. The US doesn’t acknowledge dual citizenship, and I believe you must travel in/out of the US with a US passport. If you have a US security clearance or wish to obtain one, you will have a problem as well.
From my understanding the US just pretends that you are only a US citizen. Which doesn't sound like a problem.
This is true for every country I've heard of (if you hold citizenship for that country you're supposed to use that passport)
How is that a gotcha?
There may be others — citizenship is a deeper commitment than a visa.
Post-2017 new guidance proclaimed that confiscated passports should be returned immediately, and this language was added:
> By itself, the fact that a U.S. citizen is also a citizen of another country is not disqualifying without an objective showing of such conflict or attempt at concealment. The same is true for a U.S. citizen’s exercise of any right or privilege of foreign citizenship and any action to acquire or obtain recognition of a foreign citizenship.
So generally speaking, it's not a disqualifying event to hold dual citizenship, so long as the foreign country is not "at conflict" with the US and some other conditions are met.
I'm not an expert, but this is my understanding of the current status.
To qualify you need a salary of €54K (lower if you're under 30), which is pretty easy to get in the tech scene so it's not uncommon for startups in Amsterdam to have all their foreign workers making more than their native Dutch colleagues.
Though I don't think they've won yet.
Realistically, the main reason that Israel is often counted with Europe is probably that they don't get along well with their neighbors. The implications for stuff like sports competitions could be nasty.
After the murder of Israeli athletes by the PLO/Black September at the Munich Olympics, that seems a long way off.
Eurovision-wise the story is a little sad: Lebanon wanted to enter, but since the country forbids broadcasting Israeli content (!) and the EBU refuses to let countries cut the programme, this was impossible. I believe this rule was inspired by a previous incident where an Arab country cut away to a vase of flowers for 3 minutes to avoid broadcasting the Israeli entry.
Occupations with a minimum annual remuneration of €30,000 for a restricted number of strategically important occupations contained in the Highly Skilled Eligible Occupations List. A relevant degree qualification or higher is required.
All occupations with a minimum annual remuneration of over €60,000, other than those on the Ineligible Categories of Employment for Employment Permits or which are contrary to the public interest.
For Sweden, the employment link referenced is for self-employment. The details around regular, full-time employment can be found on Migrationsverket's site.
 - https://dbei.gov.ie/en/What-We-Do/Workplace-and-Skills/Emplo...
 - https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/...
To quote Hackers: "We demand free access to data, well, it comes with some responsibility."
 - https://youtu.be/Rn2cf_wJ4f4
If you're a US citizen, you've got ~$7500 in savings, and can employ yourself, you can live and work in the Netherlands.
I emailed this guy a few times and he was always happy to answer questions - http://shawnindutch.com/
Ireland has a working holiday visa that lets students and recent graduates come live and work for a year with basically no restrictions (no need for work permit, etc.) It's the only EU country I know offering such a fantastic opportunity, at least for US citizens (Canadians, South Koreans, etc. have more options)
It's fantastic for someone who probably could get their foot in the door but needs to be physically present in the place to get started. Interviewing from another continent is 100x as hard.
Email is in my profile.
Must be board member
Requirements: Not employed at other company or member of another board. Within 6 months 30'000 Eur investment, 18 months another 30'000;
Get an MSc and you'll have full access to the Dutch job market for a whole year, then once you get a job you can get the highly-skilled migrant permit (with less restrictive criteria I think). After five years and passing some "integration" tests you can get permanent residence.
You're disadvantaged in some ways however because you're ineligible for the 30% tax ruling you'd possibly receive if you were recruited from abroad into a highly skilled position.
Then again, once you've started working you can do some tax adjusting and deduct a big chunk of your tuition costs from your first working year's taxes. I'm not sure if this will be possible much longer, though.
Been wanting to live in Europe for a while.
You could start researching here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_climate