- Cost of phone calls decreasing to basically zero
- Cost of automation going to basically zero
- Phone calls that can come from the Internet so there are no national boundaries anymore
- Caller ID operating on essentially the honor system
- Bad actors (telephone companies) benefitting from this traffic by charging for it
- Larger players having no incentive to punish bad actors
There's a reason why most messages are now sent on whitelist instead of blacklist systems.
For whitelist systems to work you need to be able to enforce identity or have a significant cost to sending messages.
Frankly I don't even want to receive phone calls on my "phone". If I did I'd be more than happy with a contacts only whitelist. Why I can't get this is beyond me.
EDIT: for those mentioning the doctor's office and other non-whitelist cases, just send non-whitelisted callers to voicemail. If you need to answer the phone then OK, I guess this won't work for you. But for the majority of people for the majority of their time, whitelisted contacts only with the rest going to voicemail will work.
These examples are from my own life, and they happen several times a month. I hardly ever make calls myself, but I do have to be able to receive important calls.
Obviously some use cases can be fixed with text messaging and app, and increaasingly they are, but there are always going to be exceptions. Directing to voicemail is also a solution to some of these, but voicemail acts as a filter: The caller may decide to not bother leaving a message.
The problem is phone number that is short and easy to guess. Imagine replacing them with a longer token that would be generated each time you want to give someone else a way to contact you (e.g. displaying a QR barcode on your phone and letting the other party scan it). Then you'd share a unique identifier with all that parties. Delivery guy can get a token that expires after a while. If someone abuses their ability of contacting someone, the token would get revoked.
I leave the details and implementation as an exercise for the reader ;)
Any call from an unfamiliar number get an automated prompt to enter a specific digit. The digit changes, and of course relies on the caller being able to follow this simple instruction. All of this happens before my phone rings.
Once a call does get through (or even if it hasn't), you can review it on the telco web site, and either whitelist or block each calling number. Those that are whitelisted now get through directly, without the prompt, and then continue on as normal.
No cost to the consumer either for this feature, but it isn't on by default.
And if whitelisting becomes a thing you know the UI is going to say "your order is complete! Please click here to whitelist our number in case we need to reach you."
Not a big deal, and it basically solves phone spam.
But that's the whole (big) deal. The solution is usually the trivial and easy part - getting people to change is the hard part.
Humanity is littered with millions of problems that could be solved if it wasn't for inertia. A solution cannot simply be better or more convenient - it has to be so overwhelmingly better, so much more convenient for people to even consider switching.
And while this solution is better, I don't see your average person caring enough to take the time to make sure they've whitelisted all services they use.
>"The FCC last year authorized voice service providers to block more types of calls in which the Caller ID has been spoofed or in which the number on the Caller ID is invalid."
It also allows me to block numbers from my sim area code. This is where most spam calls spoof to be coming from. When I recently called T-mobile to ask for them to do this, they said they couldn't help me.
 At least in North America, each phone number is assigned a "home switch," which will always be notified where (as in "which phone switch it servicing it" not "at 40°58′35″N 80°8′9″W") it is so calls can be forwarded to the proper switch (think roaming).
What I want is for spammers specifically to be identifiable and blockable, or for their business to be made prohibitively expensive. I didn't get spam calls on my cell phone 15 years ago, and as you say, what has changed is largely economics. Why can't we work to adjust the economics back?
I have two EU numbers and have never gotten a robocall on either of them. I have never heard of anyone getting a robocall in Europe, and while that might just be anecdata I think I would have heard something after two decades, especially in privacy-minded Germany.
When I get off the plane in San Francisco and activate my American SIM card, I usually have my first robocall before I get my first beer. And my mother gets so many on her land line, she always screens her calls.
What is Europe doing right here that America is doing wrong?
Exceptions are sales of books, newspapers, insurance, and research (e.g. Gallup). There is also a "do not call" list that blocks all such calls.
In Danish: https://www.forbrugerombudsmanden.dk/hvad-gaelder/markedsfoe...
I get the research exemption, and i’m Happy about a politics exemption, but why books, newspapers and insurance?
Why not bicycles or theatre or education?
I don't even know what most of them are. From times when I've been expecting important calls and checked, the most common is probably accident claims. Some of them aren't even automated.
Likely because cheap francophone labour is available in similar time zones.
Also, isn't that just taking the 9 digit phone number and turning it into a 12 digit?
Or the system could ask for information that someone who knows the recipient might know but a telemarketeer might not know, e.g. "What is the 2nd letter of my first name?"
I haven't played with Asterisk before, so I'm not 100% certain.
The first setting in my default Android phone app is to block unknown callers. What specifically do you want?
I mean, the odds of them hitting that are so close to zero I don't even want to think about it.
Now spam emails are sent to live email addresses harvested from peoples' activities
Today caller ID is spoofed not even with random phone numbers but specifically phone numbers with area codes relevant to you. For me, it's phone numbers of my area code which I have zero contacts in. Or it's phone numbers from my phone's registered address in Houston.
What makes you think it won't be long before fraudsters are able to connect the phone number they're calling with people likely in your contact list by ... looking up leaked contact lists?
I resorted to using Do not Disturb mode allowing my contact list to ring. It’s worked out great, I have missed a couple of blocked caller numbers that I would have liked to have taken but they always leave messages. And the spam calls have more or less dried up now.
I guess I'll generate one for me and store it in the notes app, which is sort of a catchall for this sort of thing.
I took my cat in for an oil change over the weekend. That resulted in three spam texts and two spam e-mails from VCA. Time to change vets.
And to be on topic, you'd need a trusted 3rd party to manage those. But lately we've seen you can't trust them to secure / not resell your data anyway.
Maybe it would be nice if we had something kind of like a CAPTCHA, where an app on your phone would say "please dial <random-number> and say your name to complete your call" and the person would have to dial it and say who they are to talk to you.
Totally knee-jerk idea I realize, but I literally get 10 SCAM LIKELY calls for every real call now, rendering my phone almost unusable. Huh, I just did a quick search and it looks like it might already be possible to install an app to do something like this. Anyone know if this works?
What we need is an abuse prevention system involving authentication. You can get reported for robo calls, and if enough different accounts you called have reported you, you get reviewed/banned/throttled. Let's not reinvent the wheel, it's been the standard way to deal with spam all over the web. But it requires rethinking the way we use phones, and a whole new infrastructure. It also brings some anonymity concerns but half-measures are just an arms race.
This situation is far more dire for the telco's and their debt holders than they are catching on to. The telephone number, portable or not, is what anchors their customers. When it is gone, you've got a commodity.
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted for this. My in-laws have this feature on their landline from their local telco. Completely annoying, but I don't want to talk to them anyway.
The call-back cost him ~$4 in long distance charges.
Default ring: silence, no vibration. Custom ringtone for everyone you actually want to pick up the phone and talk to. Yeah you gotta spend some time setting it up for your existing contacts, then spend 5s selecting a ring when you add a new contact.
On other platforms they simply give you the choice to block non-contact calls. I can do so on my Pixel by leaving Do-Not-Disturb on with Contacts Only.
I think this is the crux of the issue, and I don't think it's a situation that any non-spammer end-user wants. There's a definite non-zero cost to receiving a phone call.
I think we'd fix the robocall problem in a heartbeat if a small artificial charge was billed by the receiving phone company each time they connected a call (or rang a customer's phone, not sure about the precise terminology).
> - Bad actors (telephone companies) benefitting from this traffic by charging for it
I don't think these are compatible.
I'm not sure if it works for non-Apple apps, though.
What kind of lack of compassion do you have to have to participate in an organisation that generates something universally hated.
I once knew a guy who ran a spam operation from Chicago. I was in his office once and he showed me something on his computer. In doing so I could see that his mail in-box had over 29,000 unread messages.
I asked him how he deals with all those spam messages. He didn't think it was a big deal at all. Spam simply didn't bother him, and he believed in his heart that spam doesn't really bother anyone else, either.
>"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
When we get called from a number we don't know we used to simply reject the call. Now, as of this week, we are publishing the metadata to a kafka topic so that we might be able to do some post-processing on these events which might help identify these robot callers earlier. We've already learned that the volume of robo-calls decreases dramatically on the weekends.
The hope is that we'd at the very least learn something about how they operate but at the very best possibly provide an api that allowed people to check if a number was currently considered a robo-caller or if their city, state, zip was currently under attack. That way, for example, the makers of robo-killer, etc... could provide better protection. Perhaps we could even create a live map of the attacks.
I'll follow up when we do and post something to HN.
> Our simple web and mobile apps allow your team to text 1000+ people an hour. Your contacts see a normal SMS from a local number.
Does that mean you would appear on your own live map of attacks?
So, AFAICT, Hustle provides a service that's nearly as bad as robocalls. From their front page: "Hustle works because people read and respond to texts—and to communication that feels more human." So it's a bait and switch, just like a robocall: you contact me in a way that makes you feel personal, approachable and reasonable to me so that you can gain my attention.
Look, try to see this from my perspective. Without saying anything about the honor and motives of those behind Hustle, it's like I'm being attacked from all sides - Facebook, Robocalls, and now Hustle - to gain my attention. This has always been the case, perhaps, but our modern technology – coupled with a knowledge of human psychology – is a powerful tool (weapon?) for gaining access.
Here's an idea: I don't want to be assaulted all the time via the always-on electronic device I have in my pocket!
I still want to have access whenever I want it. Maybe I can't have it both ways?
I can't remember the last time I got an unsolicited text.
An anecdote to be sure, but I don't hear anyone complaining right now about unsolicited texts, so it doesn't seem like Hustle is the problem.
"I still want to have access whenever I want it. Maybe I can't have it both ways?"
You can, actually, and it isn't that hard. I have a strict "one strike and you're out" policy with my apps; if I see a notification I don't want, I either fix the notification preferences in the app right away, or if the app doesn't permit what I need, nuke the app's ability to notify. My phone is pretty quiet.
Really? You must not be listening. Do a quick Google News search and you'll find dozens of articles about it.
My T-Mobile hotspot has 133 unsolicited (and unread) text messages in it right now because spammers think it's a cell phone.
During the last election I received 50 or 60 unsolicited political text messages from both parties on my work phone.
Unsolicited text is a problem.
There's some bullshit law that allows political parties to harvest voter telephone numbers in my state, so I get pummeled by unsolicited text messages from political campaigns.
For the ones that actually have a human on the other end monitoring it, replying with 'I cannot vote, I'm a felon' (regardless of what the actual law is for voting and felons in my state) is a good way to get them to leave you alone.
Only robot calls I get is after contacting customer support they autocall you and ask the enter a rating of the call.
It seems most spam calls either fake a source number that's in my phone's area code, or use a completely random source. Almost any inbound call I actually expect without an address-book entry would come from my (new) local area code, so I can pick up a call if (in current area code) OR (in address book). So in essence, my current area code is a 3-digit passcode.
Perhaps a nice trick if one is allocating a new VoIP number -- at the cost of looking like a non-local when giving it out, you can effectively screen for actual local calls...
That's probably good for the robo-callers. Just like with horrible spelling/grammar errors in spam emails, they don't mind if the smart folks can figure out their pattern. They are after the suckers born every minute.
* The fact that many geographic numbers are in fact non-geographic means that the idea of being "in" an area has long since gone out of the window.
* It's not done to avoid extra charges. Call cost is determined by routing and tarrif, not caller ID. It's done pretty much for the reason that bonobo_34 supposed.
BUT.... I've had the opposite effect where they spoof to where I physically was regardless of my phone number.
I recently contacted a phishing prevention company for a quote. They knew where I was physically located, and called me using a spam number of my local-actual code. I told them flat out that was a bad idea and to not do that. Nothing made me lose initial trust more than a legit company using spoofing tactics.
It was the company that bought Wombat Anti-Phishing. They even told me they didn't do it to "prove a point" but rather just they get people to "pick up the phone more often".
The “feature” started innocuously enough.
When a call comes in from those ACs (the one corresponding to the phone), I reject it. Very easy!
Something that works for me is to have a phone number in a low-value area code. My Seattle and New York numbers get robocalls. My phone numbers in certain other parts of the country are left alone.
Once virtual phone services were invented, companies didn't even have to worry about dodging the Feds, they just moved all their operations overseas. Feel good laws will not solve this problem, it's going to take actual technological solutions.
They'll want to charge me for it soon, I'm sure. I'm betting that as soon as the trial is up (one that I never asked for, btw) that the number of bogus calls will skyrocket, and I'll be forced to whitelist.
My response will be letters to the FCC [nothing will happen] and the FTC [nothing will happen]. Companies and powerfully-placed individuals make a lot of money from these calls. I don't know how difficult the ESS-level work is for call filtering, but fixing the landscape of corrupt practices is a LOT harder.
This is an industry that already sticks in "regulatory compliance" fees. Why would you think they'd make it free when they can charge you for it with no way to opt out of the fee?
What am I missing?
SS7 is from an era when big phone companies all trusted each other and interconnected without any of the modern crypto or authentication built into a modern network.
It's not like these are long-term government employees, they are taking big paycuts in anticipation of getting private sector gigs later.
1) Most of the spam calls are spoofing numbers, so it doesn't really matter who issued the numbers.
2) Spam calls could come from overseas numbers instead, I've certainly gotten a few. I'd rather they come from US numbers, so at least when people call back, they're not paying an arm and a leg for the call if they don't realize the number is non-US.
However, there are many companies, especially overseas, that either deliberately shirk these duties or simply lack the funds, technology, and infrastructure to authenticate the sources of telephone calls. The result is something akin to IP address spoofing.
Without imposing major infrastructure overhauls on foreign nations, there's little the US government can do to eliminate these problems.
What can be done though, is monitoring for massive calling patterns at the PSTN level, but big telcos are not interested/incentivized in stopping Robocalls because it generates a lot of $$ when the calls travel over the legacy phone network.
When Twilio gets a $100k fine for abuse of the $1/mo number, they'll govern the behavior of their customer better and probably eliminate 80% of the bad actors in hours. You could also modify the regulation of interstate carriers to make it expensive to spam entire exchanges with junk calls, or even require licensing to utilize the PSTN. (Which allows you to punish licensees for bad behavior.)
These are all solvable problems, big companies respond quickly to sticks and over time to carrots.
- opt-in (just you)
- referrals (some of your friends)
- delegation (a business you trust to do screening)
- reputation (some segment of society you care about)
- free for all
Is there a law against this or something?
Nomorobo, Robokiller, Hiya all do an okay job as blacklisting applications but that seems like the wrong way to go about it.
Some suggest using do not disturb to do this, but that blocks all notifications (including from texts) so it is not a viable solution.
It doesn't need a technological solution at all. In the UK and Germany, there were some calls, but it was rare, not even once a month. Do-not-call lists are enforced, and e.g. the ICO can fine directors of companies, not just the companies. Reporting nuisance calls can be done on a website, immediately.
Then again, in the US, everything requires a phone number, which is problem number 1, even having mail sent to my house. Why exactly? Second, I would pay for a wildcard phone number service that forwards to my mobile, and lets me track leaked info like I do with wildcard email domains.
Why would a patient be dialing their doctor directly, anyway? Any reason I can think of would still allow for the physician to whitelist that person in their contact list. Most of the time, the doc would probably want the call recorded and transcribed for the medical records, and also billed to the patient's insurance as a patient consultation. A direct call couldn't do that without an app to help out.
All of the "business" contacts in my phone are for the main dial-in number for a company. I don't need to dial direct to Joe the mechanic or Trudy in accounts receivable or Jean-Pierre on the help desk. The business's automated switchboard can enforce business hours and vacations, and still connect me to whomever I need to speak to for that call. And if an employee needs to contact me, they don't even need to know my phone number. They can speed dial the company employee outbound number and punch in my work ticket number, and be connected automatically, from the company number. The identity authority is delegated to the individual business, instead of the proven-untrustworthy phone company.
It isn't that difficult for a business to set up their own call-management server these days.
If you can make your scam calls from a foreign telephone network with spoofed caller ID, or your scam is good enough you can profitably do it from prepaid anonymous SIMs, regulators claim they're powerless.
I still think privacy laws are more effective. The only time I've had really bad robocalls was when I transferred a domain. Now, ICANN are muppets and wilfully ignore GDPR et al. Okay, so WHOIS "protection", right? But insultingly, transferring domains doesn't work with WHOIS protection, and you need to supply a real number.
(Oh well, at least in the UK I can still buy pre-paid SIM cards with only cash in every major supermarket chain.)
No you wouldn't. It would go to voicemail where they could leave a voicemail. Then you return the call if you want.
So they have the option to SMS-spam you and resell your info (thus creating robocalls), of course. Even the coffee shop near my office wants me to register with them for a "rewards card" now. It's disgusting.
- Pay $1.99 to buy a silent ringtone from the ringtone store.
- Make that your default ringtone.
- Give everyone who you want to be able to call you an audible ringtone.
I would refuse to do that on principle.
- Phone calls still come in and take over the phone
- I can't use vibrate anymore? Now I have to use audible rings?
Would love to be able to junk filter incoming voicemail based on the transcript. Anything with "card services calling about your credit card account" or "qualify for a medical grade back or knee brace" goes straight to trash.
Of course that only works for a few months until scammers adapt and somehow make their calls less understandable to the speech to text or vary up their script more often, but we fought the same battle with email and seem to have done pretty well. Couldn't say when the last time I got a spam email in my inbox was.
All unanswered calls get forwarded to it.
I get an email mp3 of voicemails.
They don’t get deleted. And I can still access my voicemail easily if i’m Overseas or need to reference them in the future.
Costs about $1/month.
And for people I really don’t like... I just hand out that straight to voicemail number.
Did anyone ever make a "desktop" phone?
The interesting part too is right now people are playing with Windows 10 on ARM on the Lumia 950 hardware (which is supposed to be a generation too old in ARM processor, but seems in practice to work just fine). The latest Windows 10 on ARM builds have x86 emulation and Win32 support and suddenly you also have access to 32-bit Windows apps going back forever on the device. (One video has someone load up even Steam and Fallout 1 on that hardware.) So they truly are "desktop" phones today, just maybe too late for that to be useful to phone market.
Now you missed the reminder from your dentist, a call from that relative whose new number you forgot to save, and you have 600 recruiters and other stale business contacts in your address book because you wanted to hear from them but you're still getting spam calls because the spammers were smart enough to start spoofing numbers like the local utility companies for your area code.
There are many technical fixes which sound good until you think about what an adversary with a profit margin would do to work around them. What will work is fixing the underlying telephone system so Caller ID / ANI are reliable enough to use for filtering and law enforcement. The major telephone companies didn't want to spend the money last time, and they profit from all of these calls now, but if it became a regulatory requirement that would change.
It'd give me the power to cull down my contacts to what I want and solve the problem.
Neighborhood spoofing is an issue, but if you have a pretty clean contacts list they're unlikely to get an exact match.
These are the types of people who leave voicemails. Robocallers are not...
While I would like more tools on phones by various providers this problem as a whole needs to be solved by those routing the calls. How that works I don't know, I always thought ANI was the end all solution but IP calling circumvents that?
Enough information for them to bill my provider, but not enough to let me know who’s calling.
People have phones that are not smart phones.
Caller ID is frequency faked.
Common sense? In what universe is that a solution?
Then the hunt will get efficiently crowdsourced.
After few well publicized cases the problem will greatly diminish.
I'm wondering, is VoIP easier to call block than general call service? If it is, the inability or unwillingness by the telecoms to address this issue might prove to be a systemic disadvantage (though I'm pretty sure they make most of their margin nowadays from selling cellular data).
And anyways, Google isn't some new organization struggling to keep the lights on. They're pretty far in the black and they can afford to forgo a little bit of revenue if it means they can improve their product moat.
However, it's insane that I have to do this. At this point, having a phone with actual phone service seems basically pointless. It's one of those things that I pay for because I'm so used to paying for it.
"212-555-1212 per T-Mobile, CenturyLink, Adino". Like mail headers. T-Mobile says the call came in from CenturyLink. CenturyLink says it came in from Adino. The telco knows most of this now, they just don't pass it forward. Someone upstream may be lying, but you can usually tell. If the number is US local but the path goes through Mumbai, something is wrong.
It's still about a year from being deployed, and it's unclear how legacy landlines will be covered, given Nortel's been bankrupt for a decade and Lucent (know Nokia) has been out of the switch business for at least as long (an aunt of mine used to work on the 5ESS software until she was laid off about 15 years ago. She's now a realtor and makes far better money, so I guess nothing lost).
They're doing this out of not-so-enlightened self-interest. Voice is still a huge part of telco revenue and they can see people abandoning voice outright if the last year's trend of 75+% of all calls being spam continues. Millennials have already adopted social standards of phone calls being considered intrusive and rude.
Just because I voted in an election; and why do they know which party/who I vote for; does not give them the right to call me. I don't care if they are in office or not.
Incredibly annoying. When I complained to my phone provider they basically said there is no way to stop it since the callback numbers are spoofed and they apparently have no logs at all. Its _unreal_.
Before I figured out it was my work number that had been 'stolen', I was talking to my cell carrier (tmobile) who basically said the only 'solution' was to get a different phone number. This would be an excellent way to DoS a competitor, for example..
IIRC one of the main selling points of gmail when it started was that it had a much better spam filter than other services at the time.
There was actually a really weird phone scam going back a while that was just making calls that tried to keep people on the line as long as possible to make money off of the interconnect fees companies can charge each other.
I change the ringtone for everyone on my contact list to be different from the default ringtone. I do it when I create the contact. That's it. Two ringtones: they're a contact or they aren't.
When I hear my phone ringing in the other room, in my pocket with friends, on the bus, I know whether I may be interested in either taking the call immediately or listening to the voice mail fairly soon.
For one added level of differentiation, I use a very few other special ringtones:
-- one that sounds like knocking on the door when I receive a call or text from Amazon or UPS and other delivery services
-- a strident one when my doorbell rings (in my apartment complex, the exterior doorbell calls a phone)
-- immediate family has a different one
Your comparison isn't much more useful than 'prosecutorial discretion exists therefore do any crime you want.' Multibillion dollar companies aren't going to just go out and blaze a trail like that. We even see this in the (spurious) comparison to marijuana, the first companies to step out and test the state vs federal divide were small and local and only after those companies figured out some of the issues did we get large and larger companies coming in. (Though they're still all independent arms because of the difficulties accessing banking because of the federal laws still in place!)
Any bill passed is going to be under the purview of the FCC to enforce if signed into law. Yes, the same FCC that allows telecoms to continually run roughshod over consumers contrary to anti-trust laws that have been on the books for ages. Unless this becomes a problem for the companies that provide phone service, which it apparently isn't due to the fact that it is still rampant, nothing will be done other than public finger wagging.
I've only once in my life been harassed by some polling company that really wanted me to answer lots of questions. Eventually felt strong enough to go through the process, last question was "would you be open to participate in future polls we may have?" → HELL NO! and never heard from them again :)
Anyone on my list rings through. Everyone else can pay to connect, whatever amount I set, and if I like your call I'll whitelist you and refund the money.
Here we are 10 years later no further down the road. Sad.
An obnoxious voice synthesizer that takes the agent on a long and fruitless journey.
The people who do robocalls are only using the robot to get you into a conversation. At that stage -at least when I've been called- a human takes over and tries to talk you into whatever it is they're selling.
If you eat up the person's time with GPT-2 generated BS that's voice synthesized, the operator wastes his time.
I occasionally answer the robocalls, get through to a human, establish common ground, and then let the caller know how they are helping to commit fraud.
My goal is to in some way provide a feedback system. I don’t think that this is the responsibility of the consumer, but like most of us, I’m desperately interested in solving this problem.
Actually what you're doing isn't really non-scalable-- the spam calls are just not viable if even a small percentage of non-victims waste their time.
(Though I've noticed now that they're automating more of the calls, it takes some effort to get through to a human... and the automation is starting to sound surprisingly realistic)
If the FCC and phone companies continue to do nothing, the problem may eventually correct itself as the phone system becomes unusable by humans.
Replace phone numbers with DNS and spam blocking. Change it when you want instead of asking your provider. Tell people to contact you through your website.
Or, better said: what makes you think the link or number is enforceable in the U.S.?
Apple? Why is it so hard to implement?
Ultimately, the problem isn’t tech, it’s people who misuse it.
I'm having trouble imagining Republicans have have >89% support for robocalls, so I have doubts of your proposed left-right consensus on Trump vs. robocalls.
The author is the troll.
Really? Why though? I would assume they do. Robocalls are the maximum free-market ideal communication / ad mechanism. Aren't Republicans constantly trying to get less regulation in the US? Constantly removing laws around protecting consumers from this stuff?
I would assume most Republicans are in favor of Robocalls.
I'll be here to talk to Republicans, or anywhere really. But they'd have to meet halfway and stop the intentional causing of pain on minorities before that can happen.
The last time I sat in a restaurant with Republicans they both encouraged me to stop breathing and kill myself, because "that would be the best thing for the environment right?" as I wouldn't be exhaling CO2 any more. No thanks. I've tried hard but it's too dangerous.