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Do me a favor and Stop talking about temperature for a second. Do you agree that carbon concentrations in the atmosphere are shooting up? 10 years ago they were 390, now they are 411. At a certain ppm, human cognition begins to suffer. Try staying in a stuffy room. Acidification of the oceans and other things - animals cannot evolve to adapt that quickly.

When you talk about pollution on such a massive scale, why get stuck in an argument only about temperature? I can think of a reason: insane political partisanship.




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A simple search of "1970s global cooling" will bring up a plethora of modern stories trying to make it into a far bigger deal than it ever was at the time. It's a worthless search now, as it's been plugged to death thanks to those pushing disinformation.

You want papers from the 1970s? Well this study of climate studies from 1965 to 1979 finds just 7, with 12% of the citations, that predict global cooling. In the same period they find 42 that predict warming. They list all of them if you'd like to read any of them.

http://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/131047.pdf


Here's the problem though:

We are many who remember far more talk about the next ice age than about global warning in the eitghties.

Blame it on media and schools, but for each scientific article you refer to we'll tell you about two instances of media and schools and what not who said otherwise.

And while I and you might agree it doesn't help when average Joe (with good reasons in his opinion, as well as support from certain politicians) feels like media and "the left" and "scientists" and what not are out to make hiss life more miserable.

And I must say: if anybody wants to argue against AGW, proponents are serving golden arguments on plates of silver everytime they:

- refuse to discuss the matter in terms of percentages and tons of CO2 (because people are supposedly to dumb)

- fly around to climate conferences in private jets (yes, I know the amount of CO2 released from these hardly matters, but they are rubbing it in on poor people everywhere: we can live a life in luxury, it is you who'll have to lower your expectations.)

I'm not saying you are wrong - and personally I'm living more than carefully when it comes to climate (I repair stuff, I buy used, I travel by train, last time I took a plane is years ago. It actually like that lifestyle and it makes sense in a number of ways. I've also worked significant parts of my career in greentech.)

I'm just so fed up with people here and elsewhere not bothering to even try to understand what it looks like from the other side.

You should. Because if you want a chance at all then you need to win the hearts and minds of those people.


I upvoted you but I have to say:

1) the argument “you use X in reasonable amounts so how can you say that X in huge amounts is bad” is a terrible argument

2) I agree that we should stop talking about temperature and simply call it what it is: AIR POLLUTION, and the solution is to tax it and redistribute the money to everyone... end government subsidies to fossil fuels including the military industrial complex... do reparations for all the wars and subsidies we did for oil... watch how quickly we get CHOICE of how to fuel our cars, and fossil fuels will go the way of the dodo BEFORE we hit peak oil

We absolutely need to do #2 because that’s what is incontrovertible - the raw data about carbon concentrations, carbon emissions, ocean acidity and so on. There are plenty of other things besides temperature that are a side effect of desertification, deforestation, killing off tons of species, insects and so on. The problem is far worse than temperature so we need to stop giving non-scientist talking heads on the right like Ben Shapiro ammunition to say idiotic things like “well so what we’ll just sell our beachfront homes when Miami goes underwater, meanwhile let’s make money wheeeee”.

Where I wish I didn’t upvote you is:

3) you know better, you’re smart, you realize #2 has grave consequences and Climate Justice is a CO2 and methane tax and redistributing to everyone as a dividend. So stop muddying the waters yourself and help us clarify the issue on YOUR side. The side that is driving us off a cliff!!!

4) stop throwing our red herrings such as #1 where you don’t do similar things when Trump blames China and illegal immigrants while his companies use labor from China and illegal immigrants. Notice how when you agree with an idea, the hypocrisy of the speaker doesn’t matter and you say hate the game not the player. Total double standard — but this left vs right is just that — a game — that you’re playing on your computer while our house is on fire. And we all share this house, there is no other one!




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