I would rather see a "true" non-profit appear and claim this space. I also trust European non-profits more than American ones.
The platform (Liberapay) lives on donations, supports different currencies, multiple languages, has multiple integrations ( Github, Gitlab, Youtube, ..) and doesn't take a commission.
Which is the first time i see something like this.
No affliation with Liberapay, it was mentioned in another topic and i found it newsworthy ( Facebook fan subscriptions on the frontpage ... )
Nonetheless, it is pretty well-made and needed, especially since they care about internationalization.
Translation: Not a paywall service.
Patreon is largely that function for people. The ability to just get donations existed long before. A tool to combine donations with access to exclusive stuff is the main focus of Patreon.
Personally, I see paywall-service as unfortunate because paywalls shouldn't exist. We need to find solutions (like patronage not tied to paywalls) to fund creative works that aren't restricted or freemium or whatever.
I think if something's valuable enough, someone will be willing to cover the cost, irrespective of whether it's also freely available.
Hence the efforts to build better coordination models (such as https://snowdrift.coop is doing).
Paywalls are a compromise that dramatically reduces the overall benefit a work has in order to get over the freerider problem that public goods face.
Basically: the PAY part isn't the problem, the WALL part is.
And other than securing funding, there's nothing else positive about paywalls (although I'll admit there's potential arguments around ideas like people appreciating things more when they have to pay for them — things that still don't anywhere near outweigh all the negatives that paywalls have)
They only allow reccuring donations.
"What are the differences between Liberapay and other recurrent crowdfunding platforms like Patreon?
1. Liberapay is only for donations, meaning that transactions must not be linked to a contract nor a promise of recompense."
Nobody's going to help someone fund their child-porn-to-Iran scheme, and nor should they.
It's not a gun, Tor is not developed so that pedophiles can share child porn.
People contribute to lots of well-intentioned took that contribute some kind of indirectly to evil things.
> Donations to [...] can be paid using: a credit or debit card (Visa, MasterCard, American Express), a Euro bank account (SEPA Direct Debit), or a PayPal account.
Could I send money through my regular European bank without using Stripe to pay on Liberapay? Does anyone know how they've implemented that?
On the creator side, they say:
> We currently support processing payments through Stripe and PayPal.
From that point of view, they could potentially get stuck paying creators operating in what Visa/MasterCard/etc. consider high-risk categories.
I get the impression that they're getting into a state now where there's probably an "expectations mismatch" between what people expect to be doing when they set up a recurring donation compared to how Liberapay actually works.
As the blog post mentions, now you can say "I want to donate $5/month" and you put in $60 to cover a year, but you have to pay that full $60 immediately, and the recipient also receives the whole $60 (minus fees) right away as well. After that point, there's not really any way for the donator to change their mind and stop donating after a few months, so it's more like a one-time donation with a reminder but still being presented as a smaller recurring one.
I think the problem is that overall it will end up encouraging people to make smaller donations for shorter time periods because they won't necessarily want to commit for many months or years' worth up-front. Then that means that they have to be sent reminders to re-donate more often, which feels more annoying and will probably result in people just letting their donations lapse more often than repeatedly renewing them.
I'm surprised this is a payment processor limitation. I thought Stripe supported automatic recurring payments?
Unfortunately they were forced to change payment processors (MangoPay kicked them off their platform without an explanation) and they weren't able to find a new payment processor that gave them the same feature (having a staging bank account).
The blog post that GP linked explains things in far more detail.
Projects like this are a very bittersweet victory for floss comunity. One step at a time I guess.
https://liberapay.com/pixelfed/ (open source federated Instagram)
https://liberapay.com/SFTtech/ (open source Age of Empires II)
You do realize that's per donor and a recurring payment.
EDIT: I see now that they cap donations per donor and recipient at €100 per week, but it doesn't seem like anyone gets close to the cap.
What other platform to host a profile and raise money monthly do you know ?
Ideally, a payment platform should offer an API for creating projects programmatically and retrieving information on the funding.
It includes all you listed and much more.
It's on the wiki of a still-in-progress platform that actually plans a novel and potentially better model than all the other things, at least in terms of funding public goods without paywalls (many of these sites are paywall-focused, freemium projects with some public, some exclusive publications).
This doesn't make a difference for most projects, but it is something to consider -- though Liberapay has always required a lump sum deposit into their accounts for recurring payments so I guess this is a safer setup.
> Liberapay takes 0%.
> We are a European non-profit and open source.
> We are funded by donations.
Now it's "just a recurrent donations platform".
They have an expense claim transparency system for each collective and a cool gifting system for larger organisations to allow their staff to donate to different collectives from the company pool.
- I have a set amount of money I wish to give each month (say £200)
- Given I have setup x amount of people I wish to donate to, the system will automatically spread my money evenly amongst the creators, or using a given weighting provided
- I'll be able to add any new creators to this list and not have to recalculate the amount given to each one, given I'm still putting the same amount of money into my "donation pot"
Looking at their current system it seems to still follow the old paradigm of "set up a creator and set the amount for each of them individually", I hope that they could support something more like the above some day. Personally, the mental burden of having to continually reevaluate my monthly spend is probably the biggest burden when considering donating to someone new, which only gets larger as your donation list gets larger, so having the a system offload this I think would be a great way to encourage more donating.
Now, if you use Librapay to give to an association or an NGO that has the status, nothing prevent them from giving you the tax deduction proof that you are going to need to show the tax office.
Suppose that developer then decided to donate some funds to Terry using liberapay.
Would such a donation have complied with French hate speech laws?
You can use a hateful platform like Hatreon if you wish to spread those views. Because your freedom of speech isn’t being trampled on, it’s just that civilized people don’t want you junking up their property.
...and in some rare cases there is also actual hate speech in the sense of a countries respective laws. (Those laws are pretty diverse and far from universal.)
In functioning legal systems this latter, tiny set of cases is determined by judges. In other systems it's chosen through other means like corporations, priests, some mob or something.
With platforms as the rising way of public discourse courts are unprepared and just hand it off to somebody else. ...that doesn't mean it's the responsible thing to do.
People will probably still think that's great until the integrated corporations decide to switch sides and start to promote non-mainstream positions.
Jean-Marie Le Pen managed to formulate many of his statements in compliance with local hate speech regulations. Far from all of them, though. See:
- the front page of Hatreon
(good riddance to bad rubbish IMHO)
We all (hopefully) agrees that hate speech is immoral and bad. But once you attempt to define it, and even more importantly, once you get specific and try to police it you will learn how slippery that slope is.
Therefore, once you accept the principle that certain speech can be made criminal, you are agreeing to accept as permanent whatever future shifts may occur. It is inconceivable that this will not be abused in the future by nefarious political actors.
> Liberapay cannot protect anyone from the decisions of underlying payment processors, not even itself (https://medium.com/liberapay-blog/liberapay-is-in-trouble-b5...).
Extremism on both the left and the right isn't tolerated. Nazism, Antisemitism, etc. all fall into the same bucket.
France - where Liberapay is based - notoriously has the "Burka Ban", preventing women from covering their faces in public. In the UK "incitement to violence" is illegal, as are certain forms of protest and speech, and it is infamously severe when it comes to libel/slander law. Germany has outlawed many forms of right-wing nationalism in fear of fuelling neo-Nazis.
Policing speech is inherently European. In some ways, it's why the United States exists, and one of the key differences in creed between European and American attitudes.
Typically European attitudes around this veer towards "tragedy of the commons" arguments relating to violence, incitement to violence and discrimination.
Attitudes are much, much more liberal in relation to showing and exhibiting nudity and it does not automatically equate that seeing breasts/genitals means content is sexual as it often does in the US.
TL;DR: they're going to police speech, probably differently to others, but it will be policed. Nudity/(consenting adult) sexual content is more likely to get a pass more so than US companies would allow, but discrimination and non-centrist politics less likely.
Unfortunately, Liberapay is beholden to its payment processors, which tend to ban sexual content; they're currently using Stripe, which bans quite a bit of stuff: https://stripe.com/us/restricted-businesses